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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » The Hall of Fame » Do scythes really waste siege?
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Topic Subject:Do scythes really waste siege?
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CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 06-25-01 03:27 PM ET (US)         
I just played a cool 2v2 DM game with Ace where we pinned Ace down to one corner and I was trying to finish him off. I was Egypt and I was preparing a launch of 40+ scythes. But one obstacle remained, his 20 helpoli suround by towers.

I launched the attack and concentrated and towers and then when the helpoli started attacking I sent the majority after them. I watched to my horror all 40 scythes die to only 5 helpoli and 2 towers. Even when my ally knocked the towers with cats, my scythes still got mauled by the helepoli.

I want you lot to do some serious testing and see if scythes really do waste heles when it si 3v1.


CenturionZ_1
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CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 07-06-01 02:20 PM ET (US)     51 / 55       
Player 2 will always be the best, easy to spot.

CenturionZ_1
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Delirious Lab
Clubman
(id: Benoit)
posted 07-06-01 02:44 PM ET (US)     52 / 55       
I wonder how those "tests" of yours were done - if they started with units within striking distance of each other, of course blue may hit first. But in the middle of a game, who will hit first is basically random.

Re the delay while waiting for 3-8 to play: You may be right here, but maybe not. If we're talking about archers, both sides may have time to shoot an arrow when the order is 1-2, but if the order is 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-1, then blue may get hit before he has time to shoot (depends on distance, needs testing!)... in that case red would kill blue 1/8 of the time and the other 7/8 of the time, both enemies would kill each other: advantage red! But I wouldn't bother testing this if I were you...

I usually pick red or yellow but that's because they're easier to spot. If you pick a color because you think you'll have first move against your opponent, that's BS because IF that is true, 1) someone else is going to have the same edge on you, and 2) that "advantage" if it exists is negligible.

As for scythes vs. heles... hey maybe you tested with blue scythes vs. red heles?


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[This message has been edited by Benoit (edited 07-06-2001 @ 02:46 PM).]

Delirious Lab
Clubman
(id: Benoit)
posted 07-06-01 02:51 PM ET (US)     53 / 55       
wedsaz:

How can hosting the game be a disadvantage? Are you saying the host sees more lag than the other players?

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 07-06-01 03:29 PM ET (US)     54 / 55       
CenturionZ_1:
True, there's plenty of other factors.

For example, units waiting tend to do better than units closing in, since they attack as soon as they sight the enemy.

Also it's true psychological factors are usually much more important. Having a hard to spot color helps covert attacks, good example. Blue on water, some others on land...

Benoit:
"I wonder how those "tests" of yours were done"

Same as most of my tests - 1v1 with a friend, racing to bronze (good practice), then building a predetermined amount of units and waiting for the other to be ready. We'd usually try it 4-5 times while we were there, with different units and numbers (10v10? 20v20? 30v30?). We'd also try everything the other way around, to make sure it wasn't just my sucky mouse.

"that "advantage" if it exists is negligible"

Quite right, it's trivia as far as I'm concerned, right up there with what the villagers are saying exactly.

I mentioned it because recently I saw someone asking which color is better. Technically it makes a difference, but a very small one - less than a good night's sleep, certainly.

"As for scythes vs. heles... hey maybe you tested with blue scythes vs. red heles?"

LoL, nope. I didn't test scythes vs heles at all, though I saw my heles getting massacred in zone play. The most obvious explanation is that it was in open terrain, which advantages the scythes. If they're separated by a wall, it's a whole other story.

"How can hosting the game be a disadvantage?"

Technically yes, because his computer is the server for the game. He's running the show so to speak, which can be a real blow to the processor if there's 6 players with 200 units each... and it's even worse in an archer or siege fight, with all those projectiles flying around.

"Are you saying the host sees more lag than the other players?"

The game goes at the same speed for everyone, but the host is the one who can barely move his cursor. I know because my computer sucks, yet I usually host out of necessity. That's also why I play mostly low-pop games, my poor little computer can handle it better.


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CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 07-07-01 04:55 PM ET (US)     55 / 55       
True, basically colors in most games aren't better. You get used to color after a while and having trouble changing and that's where pyschological factors play a part. I once got 10 villagers killed because I thought some grey squares were stone mines when they were in fact towers...

CenturionZ_1
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