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Topic Subject:augy, other site members, come here
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peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 08:39 AM ET (US)         
Let's discuss proceedings here - we can use a better introductory text on the home page - who's going to write that? Other points welcome too.
AuthorReplies:
Dark_Avenger
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 10:00 AM ET (US)     1 / 59       
You talk about aoeh or aoe Manor?? (wasn't sure just to know??)
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 11:18 AM ET (US)     2 / 59       
aoe manor of course - it seems to me that phill and me are the only people working on it - augy is too busy with his marriage and i bet he'll go on a honeymoon too
Dark_Avenger
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 12:01 PM ET (US)     3 / 59       

Man, Internet was a jungle for me, imagine making a site...

and finding a way to promote your site was not a bad idea too...Have you seen SCN PUNK? hey, they make scn and you can see thier link everywhere at any heavens sites... Why not aoe Manor??

I saw that you don't have "fall of Mitanni" and "battle of kadesh", need help?

For "Coming of the Huns", maybe Phill have finding that his strat works, btw, at hardest.

As your site was born with the will to publish the hints sheets, and some custom cpn hints too: why not make a link to (what I gonna call)the "Mercenaries Office".

It's a place where cpn players use a message board, and ask to the mercenaries to find the solution for 'em in some custom cpn.

You have make some custom cpn hints with some of the best scn makers, why not extend this way with it!?

Marriage, who believe in this...??? LOL

btw, we are not made with wood...

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 12:42 PM ET (US)     4 / 59       
Hi
I was working on the Hittites campaign. Then I accidentally deleted part of the hints. For nr. 4 I have to write the new ones but that is no problem for me and for Kadesh I have no clue yet. Have to try that again.
Phill was considering to start with Ingo's but you know - you can go on forever writing hints for cpn after cpn - you also have to publish the lot at some stage. Once we're through the birthing pangs of the site we intend to continue with writing more stuff.
Organizing the site isn't such a problem once you have the basic idea. And we got that now.
I expect Augustus to do more about the site than only the graphics - Lol.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 02:43 PM ET (US)     5 / 59       
Now, peter, I know I'm supposed to help AoE Manir but I've had no response.

What the hell am I supposed to do?

(:^#]xoo-


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
Age of Empires Heaven Agetoons About Me
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 03:09 PM ET (US)     6 / 59       
Oops! were you? Hm, well, we can use this thread to discuss what everybody can do. You could of course come up with an introductory page if you have a mind for that. What are you good at? Then do that Of course we don't want everybody doing the same thing - that would be double work.
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 03:40 PM ET (US)     7 / 59       
Im suposed to do something...
...but i dont think i can do much right now.
ive got a ton of stuff already...

but i might be able to do small stuff....


..::Ace::..
..::o0ace0o@hotmail.com:|:ICQ: 53704638::..
..::CoWebmaster of Empire Earth X :|: Admin of EEX Forums::..
..:: Proud Finder of Larry's Pants ::..
..::"Stay back, or I shall smite thee with my Advanced Heal!" ::..
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 03:57 PM ET (US)     8 / 59       
CoMBat Villager:
You can write a piece for the Sir Ace link - Phill has nothing there yet. And I do remember that some time ago you promised to write down some hints for me - you may think that I forgot but I didn't (rolls on the floor). You can take a look and see what we already got there.
the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 04:51 PM ET (US)     9 / 59       
jeez, sorry for not showing up for some time.

yea, i got stuff goin' on.. Empire Earth Manor (which is just me) *turns to ace. AHEM *

and of course, the upcoming honeymoon

but i'll work on a new design, to make it look better, as well as easier to navigate.

so you guys just write up what you got in text files... and then just email them to me.. and i can plop 'em on pages, and save you guys a lot of trouble.

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-28-01 05:06 PM ET (US)     10 / 59       
honeymoon eh? - that was wanting **

RE text files: how does that relate to what Old Phill is doing? And when do we move from Phill's test site to the ultimate one?

[This message has been edited by peter (edited 03-28-2001 @ 05:08 PM).]

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-28-01 11:26 PM ET (US)     11 / 59       
first of all, when the Empire Earth Manor site is 100% complete, GS will release it publicly, and after a month or so, they'll open up space for AoEM. so..... to answer your question, whenever i get a template made, and in about a month, month and a half.
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-29-01 04:51 PM ET (US)     12 / 59       
I see - so we aren't in a hurry. Just as well - with impending marriages.
the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-29-01 05:00 PM ET (US)     13 / 59       
hehe, yea

well, i'll inform everyone on who is the 'lords'.. or.. top dudes.

over at Age of Empires Manor, Phill is the lord of that place
over at Empire Earth Manor, I'm the lord of that place
over at Trespasser Manor, Ace is the lord of that place


the lot of you are knights.. with 'Sir' in front of your nams..

but of those that don't do anything but supply with stuff, like Blitz and, ah shoot, i forget the others... but, you dudes are squires.

any of you that are confused, or have questions, ask away!

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-29-01 05:24 PM ET (US)     14 / 59       
Oh this off topic but anyway, did you get that database stuff I sent you on your old adres?

Tried your link - not doing much yet.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-29-01 09:24 PM ET (US)     15 / 59       
nt

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 04-01-2001 @ 02:00 PM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-30-01 05:11 AM ET (US)     16 / 59       
Hi Phoenix,

The link to the test site (in Phill Phree's space) is
http://www.patdist.freeserve.co.uk/hintsheets/AllHintsIndex.htm

Augustus will be hosting us on the manor sites - that's part of gamestats. Advantage is unlimited disk space and cgi scripts (of course that's only an advantage if you have unlimited content and lots of cgi scripts but who knows? - Blitz is offering stuff and he has tons of good material as Phill said). Disadvantage is you probably get the gamestats ads (ugo) as well - not happy about that.

As to your bitter feelings and not being willing to work on a site with people who let you down: most of the work is done by Phill who's setting up everything and augy who's doing the design bit - I'm not sure that darius, ace etc. will be doing much. So you won't be thrown together with most of the people as you were in your previous site.

It will be nice if we got a lot of people who give comments though - keeps as from falling asleep. And it's likely it will be the only feed-back we ever get

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 08:35 AM ET (US)     17 / 59       
take a look at this. it's a new site me and most likly, ace will be working on. let me know what you think.

this layout will be the general layout for ALL Manor Sites.

let me know what colors you'd like on AoEM

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 02:48 PM ET (US)     18 / 59       
nt

For when my outward action doth demonstrate/the native act and figure of my heart
In complement extern,
'tis not long after/But I will wear my heart upon my sleeve
For daws to peck at.
I am not what I am. (Iago.I.i.67-71)

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:26 PM).]

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 03:41 PM ET (US)     19 / 59       
Phoenix, RTS3M is the basic layout of all manor sites. the colors and graphics are all up to the lord of a site....

Anyways..

Since i wont be doing much of anything at AoEM, should my name still be on there?

Im going to be spending my time on Trespasser Manor..
And steve, put me down to run MechWarrior Manor..


..::Ace::..
..::o0ace0o@hotmail.com:|:ICQ: 53704638::..
..::CoWebmaster of Empire Earth X :|: Admin of EEX Forums::..
..:: Proud Finder of Larry's Pants ::..
..::"Stay back, or I shall smite thee with my Advanced Heal!" ::..
Queen hatsepsut
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 03:52 PM ET (US)     20 / 59       
Hmm... I barely was even aware of these places :P oh well with 4 projects on the go you can't spend your time on the internet (well, not THAT much)
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-30-01 04:01 PM ET (US)     21 / 59       
Phoenix:
What pages did you see those errors in? Phill and me did our best to get them well.

Augy:
Found it rather confusing - but I don't really want to interfere with the graphics part; anyway I'm prolly the oldes player in here and prolly I'm not a good judge of what younger ones will think of it because of that.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 05:12 PM ET (US)     22 / 59       
nt

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:25 PM).]

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 03-30-01 05:20 PM ET (US)     23 / 59       
A lord runs a site.
Im lord of TpasserM, aug is lord of EEM, so on...

We have decided on the manor look, we wont be changing every week, THIS is the look we like.
Ive already done TM in this look.


As for AoeMs look.. thats up to phill and aug to figure out if its going to be changed to the main layout or whatever. since phill is lord of it, and aug since its his network.

You cant just join and change manor networks layout
Your not in charge this time.


..::Ace::..
..::o0ace0o@hotmail.com:|:ICQ: 53704638::..
..::CoWebmaster of Empire Earth X :|: Admin of EEX Forums::..
..:: Proud Finder of Larry's Pants ::..
..::"Stay back, or I shall smite thee with my Advanced Heal!" ::..
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-30-01 05:25 PM ET (US)     24 / 59       
Phoenix:
I see - part of your objections are probably due to the change to the new thing - we didn't really adjust for the navbar; you may remenber the old one I sent you. The left margin - concur - but that's a detail - at least I hope it is easy to fix. White spaces - hm, I formatted the stuff for the old lay-out without the image - that resulted in a different look. The current lay-out doesn't satisfy me either but as lon as Augustus doesn't come up with a definitive lay-out it simply doesn't make sense to spend much work on that- one change in the navbar from left to top destroys all work.
What do you mean with the blank spaces?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-31-01 05:15 AM ET (US)     25 / 59       
Got a note from Phill - he's off line for a while:

"Local telephone exchange has been having problems - engineers have been out at the switchboxes and consequently I have been
unable to connect for the best part of the last three days. Now I have managed to get online I don't know how temporary it will be -
the phone company have said that the immediate problem has been resolved but they don't know if there are any more."

Perhaps you folks can make a test page with a lot of text on it - let's say what a regular hints page would look like. I could comment on that better than on a page with only an image.

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 07:35 AM ET (US)     26 / 59       
I'm just about back online, still got people playing with boxes outside though.

Phoenix - I have been slowly working through typos, haven't been able to upload any updates. I don't think there are that many now. Margins are easy enough to alter.

The gaps in the hints are there for a reason, so you can't see them all at once. I tried centering the text in the hints and it looked awful. Shame they can't be justified.

DA's solution for the Coming of the Huns worked a lot better than mine - I haven't put it up yet but it will be there.

When people send me hints could they please say what campaign it is for so I don't have to trawl through the game and find out. I can remember them mostly but I'm trying to do this and my contest entry and get my business off the ground, so give me as much info as possible.

What matters most to me is consistency and content. Eye candy is superficial nonsense that nobody really cares about. A good looking page with nothing on it holds the attention for about 5 seconds, then if it has little or no content people just say 'oh, that's nice' and go somewhere else. However, little design issues can be tweaked once we know what's definitely going on there. let's get something on there worth looking at first ;-)

There's no problem with keeping the site where it is for now until it has all the articles on it. Just can't have too many downloads yet.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 03-31-2001 @ 07:39 AM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 03-31-01 07:41 AM ET (US)     27 / 59       
Nice 2 C U R back

Concur.

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 01:09 PM ET (US)     28 / 59       
hmm, good to see everything back to normal when i get back

and Pheonix, if you don't like how i'm running my network, don't tell me to change the thing. i don't mind people giving me feedback, asking questions or suggestions, but i don't like people telling me how to run my network.

especially when they try to steal my wife

[This message has been edited by the_true_Augustus (edited 03-31-2001 @ 01:10 PM).]

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 10:08 PM ET (US)     29 / 59       
nt

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:25 PM).]

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:13 PM ET (US)     30 / 59       
okay, pheonix, we didn't ask for any help.

feedback is nice, but feedback like that i just spit right back out. how 'bout you do something better? show us your "skills"

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:21 PM ET (US)     31 / 59       
Phoenix:


1. Saying something sucks is not feedback, it's just abuse.

2. In an earlier post you say the layout is fine, just that the toolbar needs work. Now you say it sucks. Make your mind up.

3. How many websites do you currently run and maintain? I ask because you have given no credentials for your so-called expertise. None of us are experts but at least we try and have something to show for it. You have absolutely zero on the net as far as anyone knows.

4. If you can't keep your personal feelings out of your judgement you are not a professional - just another wannabe. Whatever axe you feel you have to grind is not with me - so don't make it my problem.

5. You want to help I have no problem with that. But none of that will happen until you get that chip off your shoulder and modify your attitude.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:24 PM ET (US)     32 / 59       
yea, what he said.

and if you wanted to be a part of MS (Manor Sites)... i can tell you right now it'd be a no. But i bet you don't wanna be in it now since our layouts don't meet your standards.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:28 PM ET (US)     33 / 59       
Sorry, I know I'm acting bad...it's just that my RealLifeTM is really horrible, so I keep flaming people....I'm just feeling ANGRY all the time...even though I know I'm acting like a total jerk. Maybe I should stay off the forums for a few days.

I'll try and shut up now, ok? Thx!

And I didn't mean any of that stuff I said, I just wanted to flame ppl. Sorry.

the_true_Augustus
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:35 PM ET (US)     34 / 59       
no worries, we've all been there.

but, you can't let it interfer with everyday stuff. it's hard, but something ya gotta do. well, something ya gotta not do.... depends on how ya look at it

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:37 PM ET (US)     35 / 59       
Ah....good thing you flamed me. I suddenly realised what a jerk I've been acting like.

PROPER Suggestions:
1. The links should be aligned with the buttons
2. Maybe the underlines could appear when the mouse passes over the link?
3. Put some toolbar sections on the right side - then one doesn't need to scroll down so much.
4. The intro text could be justified.
5. The profiles could be on one page with #s
6. Hints: Scenarios could be done with an <*ol> to make it look neat.
7. Same thing for each hint - it looks a bit floating in the middle of the page.

-The Phoenix

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:51 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:42 PM ET (US)     36 / 59       
The toolbars were all down the left so that they could be read in 800x600 resolution - putting them on the right means having to scroll across for people viewing in that size, which is even more irritating.

Text cannot be justified, unless you know different. Left, right or centre is the best I can do.

Don't quite know what you mean by floating in the page - please explain further.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:43 PM ET (US)     37 / 59       

More suggestions:
7.Use a backgorund for the standard pages. I know a site which has dozens of background images, I'll fish it out.

8. Tell me what you think of these:
Map Design for beginners

Intermediate Map Design


For when my outward action doth demonstrate/the native act and figure of my heart
In complement extern,
'tis not long after/But I will wear my heart upon my sleeve
For daws to peck at.
I am not what I am. (Iago.I.i.67-71)

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:51 PM).]

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:48 PM ET (US)     38 / 59       
1.Um, Phill, if you use table width=100% height=100%, scroll bars will never appear.

2. Not justified, I'm bad at explaining, I meant leave a gap between the edge of the middle <*td> and the sides of the text.

3. The Forum wouldn't let me use a tag.
By 'floating', I meant that it looks a bit messy: it should have a <*li> dot or a "-" before it OR be centered.

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:50 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:50 PM ET (US)     39 / 59       
Think I know what you mean by gaps in the hints - if you mean the way the answer to a question has a small gap above it, yes, in IE they looked fine but in Netscape they would sometimes sink into the viewbar at the top. Putting in an invisible spacer graphic was the only way I could have it displaying the same in both browsers but I am open to a better solution. Not everyone uses IE with 1024x768, and a serious designer must think beyond the kit they themselves are using ;-)

So are you saying that if the table is in percent it will shrink or expand to fit different resolutions? I have tried that and it didn't work.


Background graphics - I had an idea to have different ones for each section, so the hints have theirs, the strats have theirs etc. That's only a thought though.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:55 PM).]

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 03-31-01 11:55 PM ET (US)     40 / 59       
Phill:
Instead of that, couldn't you just put the <*a name="blah"> a little higher up? That would work just as well, if I understand what you're saying.

What do you think about my other suggestions:

Quote:

1. The links should be aligned with the buttons
2. Maybe the underlines could appear when the mouse passes over the link?
3. The profiles could be on one page with #s
4. Each scenario could be done with an to make it look neat.

E.g.
-----------
-Scenario 1
-Sceanrio 2
-Scenario 3
----------

instead of

----------
Scenario 1
Scenario 2
Sceanrio 3
----------

5.If you use table width=100% height=100%, scroll bars will never appear.
6. Not justified, I'm bad at explaining, I meant leave a gap between the edge of the middle and the sides of the text.

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 03-31-2001 @ 11:56 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 00:05 AM ET (US)     41 / 59       
5. Just answered that.

Other suggestions are ok. I don't know how to eliminate the underline on a link except when you put the mouse on it. Do you?

No, it doesn't work. I tried it and Netscape still had the target vanishing into the top of the browser screen. If it had worked I would not have spent ages putting hundreds of graphics in 87 hint sheets, that's why I did it because, as usual, what seemed great in theory fell flat on its arse in practice. ;-)

6. The text is indented all round as of the last update. There is a gap, I could increase it by a couple of pixels but wouldn't really go further than that.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 04-01-2001 @ 00:08 AM).]

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 00:13 AM ET (US)     42 / 59       
To make the underlines appear when the mouse passes over them,


<head>
<title>AoE Manor</title>
<style>
a { text-decoration: none }
a:hover {text-decoration: underline }
</style>
</head>

The indent, I just thought that it wouldn't look good if the text was touching the sides of the middle TD. maybe you could use <*blockquote>??

GTG now,
The Phoenix

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 04-01-01 06:17 AM ET (US)     43 / 59       
"Damn, damn,damn."

I can't turn my heels or you guys start messing things up

Phoenix:
I sent some stuff to you a while ago and then you said all you would change was add a background image and center text - the hints format hasn't changed much; matter of fact I added a background image that has since then disappeared and centered the text of the index pages linking to scenarios.
I don't care much for the idea of bulleted lists - I tried but felt it sucked. Perhaps with better images it might be nice.

All af you:
We use linking books to get you to another scenario or hint as a tribute to Myst - what do you say to that? The links are on a background with an AOE animation. you click in the animation and then get sucked into the next page.

The idea of the hints was not to give everything away at once but presenting every hint on a separate screen. For that, using a table with one table cell = one screen is an easy way to keep things together while writing the stuff. In some scns I got more than 20 pages - you imagine the nightmare of tracking a page if you want to change anything there?
Of course for the actual pages you can use an entirely different format if that's necessary. Phill and me had a lot of trouble to find the right settings for table height so that you wouldn't get to see the top of the next hint - especially when that mountain range was thrown in - that meant we could make a fresh start.
I have all software over here for splitting the files up into separate hints per file format and vice versa. Of course if you use single files per screen you'd better use frames or your space will soon be filled. A still better way may be to use scripts for navigating within the hints - like in the walkthroughs in the Academy but then of course it should be done well instead.

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 04-01-01 08:56 AM ET (US)     44 / 59       
Okay Phoenix, I took a look at your articles Uh uh, where are the background images? Apart from that they look alright but remember this: the only reason there's a scrollbar on the hints pages is that the browser must be able to display all hints - the visitor is supposed to navigate the page using the links.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 10:55 AM ET (US)     45 / 59       
If guys have any revamping ideas they're worth hearing, but not if they're going to change their minds next week - that's the bit that bugs me personally cos it's such a waste of time. There's no harm noting them all, though.

A thought I had was to keep the hints as they are but also, as an option, have the hints as small Flash apps, turning pages as you suggest, animations if you wish etc. I haven't got the time, though. When I have I'll dig the notes out on Optimising Flash and maybe try it, not that they'd be big anyway. Rather than mess around trying to get one set the way everyone wants it, have it in a couple of different formats, the plugin and non-plugin versions as it were.

And it cuts through the crap - if people don't like the standard version they can download the plugin and look at the other version.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 04-01-2001 @ 10:59 AM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 04-01-01 11:15 AM ET (US)     46 / 59       
Agree - if you apply any suggestions to all files at once. If you apply them to a set of 2 or 3 it isn't so bad. Remember that we want an open discussion and some experimenting and then we can't have people around saying we can't change things every week. That's killing the discussion right away. Store the files somewhere and make a test site with two pages. Who cares? Then apply ideas to those and we can comment on them. if we don't like them we can change it - but of course you aren't going to change 150 files every time.
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 02:05 PM ET (US)     47 / 59       
Well, I don't know why that happens, but if you say so. Still, I think that you should have bullets. It looks a bit messy the way it is right now.
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 04-01-01 03:59 PM ET (US)     48 / 59       
I tried bullets - but it didn't look well. (Reason was the lines were too far apart). Also, some sheets don't have so many qustions at the start - one of the ROR ones starts with one question. Would you have bullets there?

Phoenix: I realoaded the first of your pieces, looked at the source and it didn't have any piece like a background image in it - guess you didn't test it for NS?

[This message has been edited by peter (edited 04-01-2001 @ 05:09 PM).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 07:20 PM ET (US)     49 / 59       
I don't mind doing a few test pages for the look of the thing, obviously, I am talking about everyone saying yes and then a week after all the work is done saying no and having to change the whole thing again, that's all. I don't know where anyone got the idea I wasn't open to experimenting or how I'm killing discussion, I've said all along all ideas are welcome and worth trying - it's supposed to be some kind of clue, isn't it, saying what you mean ;-)

Phoenix - everything works off a template so you only have to change that to give everything on the site a common look and feel, and all updates to pages are then done automatically. That makes it easier to manage, especially as the site grows.

I'll set up a copy to experiment with, containing just a few pages and people can try out their ideas on that.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 04-01-2001 @ 07:33 PM).]

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 04-01-01 10:07 PM ET (US)     50 / 59       
Peter:
I haven't put a background on my articles because I didn't know which site they would be on. As for the bullets, that's too bad.

Phill:
OK, that's a good idea.

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