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Topic Subject:Some questions after playing Popov
vmay
Clubman
posted 06-12-00 12:27 PM ET (US)         
Hi everybody.

As I described in "Pit Start vs. Granary Start" I had 2v1 UNBELIEVABLE game against Popov. Some conclusions I made and some questions I would ask him (and others BTW) were the following:

1) When do you start docking and what villies/ fbs ratio do you have after that when bronzing?

2) Your army had fast units only (CAs + cavs + camels). Is it always the case? Do you ever make STs, compies? Do you make chariots in early bronze or you dont use them because they take too much space on the battlefield?

3) You have fast army. Do you build it in your town or you make forward bases?

4) You did not go after enemy's buildings (houses particularly), after villies only. Is it always the case -- weaken down the enemy's economy first as much as possible and only after that finish him completely?

5) You did wall very effectively in the game, but terrain was "dream of the waller". What do you do when you cant wall your town? Do you wall your woodies or what?

6) what technologies you reasearch by early bronze?

7) do you ever need to iron?

Everybody is welcome to participate in this discussion (well, as always, you know).
Some of the questions are pretty standard but I never had REAL expert answered them.

AuthorReplies:
RomanGladius
AOKH DM Champion
posted 06-12-00 12:50 PM ET (US)     1 / 28       
I'm not half the player that Popov is, but I can answer a couple of your questions, I think.

2) The cavs, CAs, and camels are more than sufficient for villager killing. Unless there is a wall in the way, of course. Then you'd need STs.

4) Always hit the villies first. Who cares if you kill a granary if their peons are all working safely somewhere else?

vmay
Clubman
posted 06-12-00 01:06 PM ET (US)     2 / 28       
RomanGladius,

Thanks for the answer.
You know, I understand this stuff about villies/granaries. But in the game I managed to move my villies from my home town to another location (more than half of them) and his army did not follow them. In such case I would go after houses (well, who am I to give advices to the guy, who bronzes under 13 effortlessly with 50+ peons?). Maybe it was dinamics of the 2v1 game which made him to leave my town after he killed as many villagers as he could and go after another guy again, but say in regular 1v1 game what do you do if you lose sight of escaping villagers? Do you search for them and waste some time if you cant find them or you go after houses?

Thanks again

RomanGladius
AOKH DM Champion
posted 06-12-00 03:44 PM ET (US)     3 / 28       
I'd go look for them, with CAs and camels they shouldn't be able to run too far. He probably knew that with half your peons dead, you'd be silent for a while. While rebuilding you wouldn't be able to help your ally, so he hit your ally and got him pinned down, then finished you off before you could stage a big threat.
Dave
Clubman
posted 06-12-00 04:16 PM ET (US)     4 / 28       
Yup, I think that expert players are able to multi-task their attacks as well as their econ.

I'll bet that while he was killing your vils, he was sniffing out and forward building on your ally. Imagine how Popov's mouse feels! Click-click-clickety-click ...

Destroying your houses would have hurt you more solidly but he had to neutralize your ally first. Anyway, you had houses, but you still had to make new vils. Those lost 2 or 3 minutes (maybe more) on your part was probably all he wanted to start off with.

Man, I would loved to have watched that game! I wish that we could setup more of these workshops hosted by experts.

13 minute bronze? ... cav + cams in enemy town before 14 minutes? ... I can only dream ...

Thanks for the story!

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 06-12-00 11:55 PM ET (US)     5 / 28       
Ok... You gotta something first: I'm used to play 1v2 vs any players on the zone of so (only a few players (top 20 maybe can't be played 1v2: pplz like _Cloud_S_, _doh_gg_ (aka Gamble_god= he left ror for good 2 days ago tho :-(), _mentos_rage, _dream_star...Those are a few names that can't be played 1v2 and that I'd gave me problems in 1v1...only to name a few. 1v2 isn't the same as 1v1: remember this: the team of 2 guys (even if they aren't experts) has 2 TC to start with and therefore more real villies so as I'm alone, I need to outboom (usually not a big problem) both of you and make a fast brz (hard but...I pray for a forest by or near my TC ;P...if not, I'll tool both to death).

1-) I usually dock before 4:30 as Shangs (3:45 in good games) with a Granary and a Pit by forest running: I'm speaking for a Berries start...not SF.

2-) The best combo army in the game (for brz) IS: Cavs-Cams-CA...LIKE IT OR NOT. Don't reply to say I'm wrong...Compies beats CA, true but who cares: my Cavs with full upgrades (+4, +4) and Nobility beats 'em with CA and Cams backing up. CA beats hoppers, broad swordmens and all those slow units. CA beats Cavs, Cams, Char is you KNOW how to dance with 'em. Example: OoC_Stalin is considered the BEST conti player right now and he won the last 1v1 large-conti tourny: I played him the game after his big win and I beating him big time on the dancing so don't tell me dancing dosn't work vs good players: I use dancing vs every players and always worked. Cams beats Cavs. Cavs and Cams beats StS. StS and Compies are slowwwwwwwww (I used to be a Minos player but got boredointless). Shangs is the "fastest" civ to tool-brz and got a full tech tree in both ages with double HP walls: THE BEST RUSH CIV BY FARRRRRRR: like it or not...You still have to be able to use 'em correctly. Chariots: never use 'em...as simple as that: they blows...Maybe only Scyths and this is if you don't have other units to do: chariots simply blows.

3-) I ALWAYS make a forward base and I put this on the ennemy (when I'm using a civ with CA and when I'm gonig for a brz rush and when I already boomed to over 50 villies): 2 stables and 3 archeries ON the ennemy (by his town) and ready to crack army non-stop and full-upgraded soon after (make army before upgrade ;P upgrades without army sux) and soon after, the guy my me is overhelm by my eco and army and say "gg" or run...I simply follow to the next guy and go for villies only: tell me what he's gonna do with houses, TCs, buildings for army if he got no ressources to use? Usually, when I boom and brz rush after, my Town (or at least my woodies and goldies) is/are walled while I'm brzing. I'm also almost all walled in at minute 8:30 or so with houses walls and that stuff. I add walls tiles only to feel safer ;P

4-) As I explained above, I'll say it in other words: don't waste time on dead wood...WHO CARES! The guy is 'bout to say GG cuz he don't have any villies left and nothing to build with (ressources) so just go on the next victim ;P Of course, in a 1v1, simply make 2-3 sts by his town while running after his villies with your army

5-) I ALWAYS find a way to wall my whole town or at least my woodies and goldies: this is why I keep winning vs tool rushers and fast brz rushers while I go with 13:30-14:30 brz and over 50 villies...The only secret: WALL is the most important thing before minute 15.

6-) If I plan to go for CA and Cams-Cavs, I make goldmining as soon as I click brz and then I make woodcutting right after. Well, this is mostly on Conti or Medit: on hills, I usually make only woodcutting since I'm usually brzed 1 minute before the 2nd guy gets there (when I brz fast on hills). On Hills, I go for CA only in many occasions: and I make a huge boom at the same time.

7-) Why do you wanna Iron? I iron only if I have over 100 villies or I'm 'bout to hit 100: if not, lemme tell ya this: a 90 villies eco and BIG brz army BEATS ANY 45-50 eco and small and very shitty iron army: there is NO WAY a 50 villies eco who's iron (and lost 1k of food and 800 gold to iron) can make units that cost more ressources than brz units and keep the pace of a 100 villies brz eco: NO WAY IN HELL: YOU CAN BE AS GOOD AS YOU WANNA BE, YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO. I usally laugh at someone that goes iron in a game vs me only cuz he knows I got his 2 others pards and he goes iron to get a big unit: he usually say GG 2 mins after or while gonig Iron: Then, he say: "I was almost iron"...and start using the number 19 taunt. I reply: "who cares, u got spanked by someone who's brz and over 100 villies and got enough shit to send the whole zone to Iron Then I say GG and I resign before him so he feels good

BTW, when I started palying this game before I stop for over 1 year, I was gonig ALWAYS Iron with Hittos under 21 minutes (on highland...it was in AoE days) and I wasn,t using any water on any maps. I was gonig Iorn and I was boomnig like mad (over 140 villies) and I was getting HCats, Eles (no armored at this time) and Eles Archs with ALL upgrades...Why? I tought Iron units (maybe only 2 eles at minute 24) would beat the 50 CA of my ennemy while I had 3-4 villies left. Also, at this time, I rememebr saying to a guy: "wtf, u cheated! No way u can Brz under 13:00 each damn games".

Now, I know how they used to do that and I'm also willing to help any players who wanna improve his game: this goes from coop to any other kind of help but lemme remind you this: only way you'll improve isn,t by checking someone (coop): nobody showed me how to boom (and I'm not a copycat as Wedsaz said in and earlier post 'bout me) and I "invented" my own way to boom and it works pretty well not cuz it's the best but that's the one that suits me the best (not the same). The same apply to toolnig fast, brzing fast, Iron fast, Iron sling (Iron time under 14:00 minutes that u make in teams games while your pards tribs the right ressources at the right time...a bit harder than it looks like). If you wanna improve your game, ask an expert to play him 1v1 (not a joke) and try to understand why u got spanked and how he was able to and ask him what you should have done to maybe "hoping" to win. I played Blitzerieg_Coming (he post often on this forum) recently: he came into my room and asked for 1v1, I accepted. We played and after the game, he asked me what he should have done and what he has done well: I tried to help him out.

BTW, if any of ya wants good URL's with some good strats, just give a reply to this message and I'll post some. Readong a few strats and trying 'em is good: adapting 'em to your style of play is even better.

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 00:13 AM ET (US)     6 / 28       
vmay:

I played Popov yesterday in a 1v1 Huge Conti. No offense to other RoR players, but he is simply best on Zone. We were both Shang, and I tried to keep up with his boom (I consider myself "an expert boomer"). It seems as if I was 1 villa behind him by 2:30, and that gap grew to 2 before 5:00. I did granary start, then pit by wood/shore fish, then docked around 4:00. I hit Tool button before 10 minutes, and if I recall correctly I had 40 vills to his 45. (He said he had bad spot with no forest close and therefore a small boom and slow Tool time).

I was able to scout with villas early and find the land-bridge. I docked 2 forward builders onto his continent, and his explorers came and saw my docks. I realized he wasn't on my continent.

I made 2 archeries and a stable on his land. I sent a couple scouts to find his woodies and berry pickers. He built 3 archery ranges and 4 stables in between my forward buildings and his economy. He boomed CA's, Camels, and Cavalry nonstop for the rest of the game I think.

He easily crushed my little attacking force, built a transport and had all of his mobile army hunting for villas. I saw this and tried to wall - too late. The game ended at around 35:00 with me having 35 wood and 3000 food and 0 real villies in Bronze. He was in Iron at full strength.

I don't want to speak for Popov, but my observations after playing him are these:

1) He starts docking after he builds granary and during or soon after he pits.

2) He only made cav, camels, and CA against me. He kept them in one group to achieve a "critical mass". It is very mobile, and he is able to build them in an area to serve as offense and defense.

4) He made no attempt to kill any of my buildings, only villies. He searched the map until all my fleeing and hiding villies were dead.

6) All I know is that he was building a Bronze army while I was spending resources on technologies.

7) He Ironed against me and never really missed a beat with his Bronze army. He always had strong econ, and strong millitary. In Iron I saw lots of Horse Archers in his mobile army.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 01:13 AM ET (US)     7 / 28       
SuN_Cam_Popov:
First I want to apologize for calling you a copycat. I figured maybe if I insulted you enough maybe I could get you to post some of your own strats.
 
I agree with CA/cavs/camels being the best villie-killing combo. However I think there are combos such as compies+camels, compies+hoplites or CAs+camels (save on cavs, make more of the rest) which would defeat it defensively. Also there are other kinds of attacks, the enemy can't make much military if he has no houses for example. Or kill the buildings have the least hps for their wood cost, making him spend tons of wood to rebuild his buildings, which he can't use on CAs. Which attack is best depends on the enemy's strat, but killing villies quickly is probably the best against overboomers.
 
What do you do if the enemy walled in? (with some forwards running around outside if he's got half a brain)
 
Iron sucks? What about scythes? They're cheap, powerful, fast, have area damage... even with a 50-villie econ a lot of them can come out. Mixing in some HAs can give the group a bit of range and LoS too.
 
I agree playing style is very important. Some strats just don't work for some players.
 
BlitzkreigComin:
I dock soon after I pit too, maybe it's got something to do with having the wood to use it.
 
He ironed against you? Well, you should be ashamed of yourself. Why didn't you beat him with your larger bronze army? Or better yet, an even larger tool army!
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 01:45 AM ET (US)     8 / 28       
wedsaz:

LOL about my larger Bronze army. I think I had a land army of 1 Scout and maybe 5 villas if I was lucky. The rest of my pop was on the sea. I think he Ironed because by then he had over 100 villas, pop of 200, and nothing else to do with the resources.

About the Tool army. I didn't want to go into a Tool war because from what I have heard about him, he is the best Tool fighter in RoR. I wanted to see if I could boom with him to Bronze (yeah right). Also after docking off the land bridge, I thought that he was basically walled off of my continent. I had Scout Ships -> War Galleys patrolling the river trying to keep him off my land, but he got me. I figured my best chance was to keep the battle on his side of the map.

One of my biggest problems is that I never was able to mass a big Bronze army. The "battle" took place on his land. It was like he found my little stable, 2 archeries and a seige workshop that was like 30% complete, thought to himself "He really thinks he can pull this on me?", went and built 6-7 archeries/stables by my buildings, and massed a bigger army faster. He made sure to kill my forward builders first.

From that point on, he gave me quite an education on the effectiveness of a mobile army. I knew he had a bigger army than me because I had built and lost all of my millitary and millitary buildings on his side. I still had the shallows blocked, but I learned the hard way that I should have walled also. I was finishing my wall around my econ as his millitary showed up. I needed like 10 seconds to finish the wall. By then though he was booming millitary and econ everywhere and I was in panic mode.

I learned a lot. Thanx Popov.

Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 02:08 AM ET (US)     9 / 28       
Wedsaz:

Dude, a 50 villa econ in Iron is not a game winning strat. I have more woodies than that in Iron. If you only have 50 villas you never should have hit the Iron button. For the last few weeks I have been staying in Bronze until I choose to go to Iron. I used to go to Iron just to get there. What is the point if my econ can't support an Iron army. Now I stay in Bronze and use the food and gold to double my military. If I have to go Iron to stay in the game, then I advance. I don't know...it has worked out well so far though.

Blitz:

So you weren't in panic mode until Popov came through your staked out wall? Uh huh...right...be honest... I would have been in panic mode when it said: "Host is launching the game."

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 02:08 AM ET (US)     10 / 28       
BlitzkreigComin:
Best tool fighter? That's relative, it's not like everybody goes for a fast tool these days. He good, but I believe any strat can be beaten by another, it's just a matter of finding which strat you're up against and finding what beats it. Although that can take months of head-scratching if it's a good strat used by a good player.
 
I always assume my opponent sneaked some builders over somehow, being paranoid saved me a few times. I also rarely build on opponents, I instead build my army in or near my own town which saved my villies countless times. I still attack my opponent's economy, but I usually get to do it in the comfort of my own town, isn't that great?
 
Oh, and from his faster growth I'm thinking he had an extra dock, and the wood you spent on warboats he had spent on FBs. Either that or you had villager lapse, which isn't very good.
 
I never take the same civ as my opponent, even if he takes shang. Maybe I'm not good enough to face an opponent on equal terms, but then again maybe I like being able to do something my opponent can't do as well no matter how fast he clickety-clicks.
 
Finally I'd like to repeat popov's comment that what works depends on playing style. I'm defensive so my suggestions are along those lines, if you're not then my comments may not be much help.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 02:26 AM ET (US)     11 / 28       
Sumerian_Leper:
I'd say you should iron when you can get away with it. That means you can get appropriate iron-age units out before the enemy can kill you. Which ones are appropriate depends on what your opponent uses, with shang against popov's mobile army my guess would be scythes. However, considering the situation blitz couldn't get away with iron jumping, and would have been better off making compies+camels in a hurry when he saw his forward buildings go down. At least, that what I probably would have done.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 02:53 AM ET (US)     12 / 28       
wedsaz:

Best tool fighter is not relative. Ask anyone on the Zone. Popov can kill any expert that still plays RoR in Tool. END OF STORY!

A counter to Popov's game: bigdaddy

His game is perfectly balanced. He booms better than anyone, but with incredible "rush times". This alone allows him to "rush" opponents with a boomers econ. He has a great balance of Bronze units, and always booms econ. He walls to protect his econ. Alot of strats have weaknesses. His doesn't! If I Tool rushed him, he would have walls up (Shang walls), and would have a lot stronger econ and killed me earlier than he did. He Bronzes in like 14 minutes and has 60+ villas soon after. He is THE only player I know that can have 100 villas before 20 minutes, while killing 2-3 opponents. Ask around wedsaz--- there isn't anyone that will come forward anywhere and say they can beat Popov right now. I see him playing 2v3 and 1v2 vs some of the Zone's best right now.

About the not picking Shang thing. Shang has to be the only civ to pick in 1v1 games, especially vs. someone like Popov. Shang is too fast and too versatile to not pick em. I know that I can boom the best with Shang, and I know Popov can boom the best with Shang. Why pick a slower civ and have Tech holes in Tool and Bronze? Shang has every unit available in Tool and Bronze and the fastest econ. I'm no idiot- I knew the game wasn't going Iron.

What civ can combat Shang in a 1v1? Umm let me think....... None!

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 03:58 AM ET (US)     13 / 28       
BlitzkreigComin:
The proof that best tool fighter is relative lies in your own reply. He can beat any expert that "still plays RoR in tool". Matty and the like moved on to AoK, and most of the experts that stayed aren't tool fighters.
 
After hearing about his playing style, I'm thinking about what will beat him. When I have it figured out and can play again, I'll practice up and try it. Whether it works or not, I'm sure Popov and I will have fun.
 
There's no such thing as a "perfectly balanced" game, or a "flawless" strat. If he's smart, and I think he is, then he knows this. Pretending he's invincible is also a smart thing to do if people believe it, since it makes his scared opponents less effective.
 
1. If he bronzes fast while booming, he gives up tool time to do it.
2. If he walls, that's villie-time not spent chopping.
3. He bronzes in 14 mins, shang can bronze as fast as 12 mins with berries.
4. He only makes one army and moves it around to keep multiple opponents down, the rest of his resources goes to increasing his economy. If his army keeps getting defeated, he won't have those resources to invest back into his economy, and he won't grow as fast.
5. I'll take your word about nobody wanting to step forth and beat Popov right now. I don't, since I know he's good and I'd need to get in shape before I can worth his time. I can't say the same about some inters I skewered last week with my rookie cousin.
6. Shang can beat any civ in 1v1. However, they can't do all the strats at once so an overconfident shang can be beaten by other civs if the right counter-strat is used. Which civ is best depends on the counter-strat. Some contenders include roman for tool wars, yam for early boat wars, minoan for booms, persian for raw speed, and yes even palmy for variety. Shang is fast with a strong boom and has no weaknesses in tool and bronze, but for anything shang can do another civ can do it better.
 
Considering Popov's strat and my personal preference, I'd probably take minoan with a granary-first boom, keeping some wood while tooling to try and kick him off the seas with cheaper warboats. He can wall his woodies, but he can't wall his FBs. I'd also wall so his "mobile army" can't go into my town without siege giving me more time to get compies, using camels and impies until compies are done researching.
 
Any overconfident player can be beaten. I once beat someone who had a photon man and a nuke trooper (cheats weren't on, turns out they were gaia units on that map), without using cheats myself. I'll let you try and figure out how that could happen.
vmay
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 10:37 AM ET (US)     14 / 28       
Popov,
First -- thanks for the reply! It really helps.
BTW, how many docks and fbs u have by bronze?

No iron?
Hmm,
I guess I am like you were 1 year ago,
I am trying to boom to iron with small bronze army and become very upset than got beaten in bronze. I guess I will try to play bronze more heavily now [sigh]

I tried to contact you last night (I saw you in esquilline room), but you probably have your privacy settings on so that stupid idiots like me don't annoy you all of the time. Yeah, I would love to play you 1v1 if you will. And I would love to coop with you to see proportions of villies you put on different tasks and to see wood distribution you do.

The same goes for the strategy links. I bet everyone on this forum will be more than happy to check them out.

How do you play other civs? What are your favorites (except shang)? You probably play random civs from time to time, right? What do you do for no-CA civs? do you play compies in that case or go for tool war? Or go for cavs/camels?

wedsaz,
you need to play him in order to understand magnificancy of his game. You can theoretize to death but you will never be able to imagine the beauty of such game. Sometimes I play in so-called "expert players only please" games even though I think that I am very average player. I win and lose about 50/50. All games are pretty close. But I never had so superior opponent as him.

Dave
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 11:10 AM ET (US)     15 / 28       
Popov, if I may add to vmay's question(s) ...

You build a big bronze army but what about in tool? Do you build much army? If so, roughly how many and what? Or do you rely mostly on your walls to buy you time till you are bronze?

Let's put it another way ... the best bronze time that I have been able to achieve is 15-16 minutes. So until I can bring this time down, I have to expect an attack (or several). What do you recommend that I do in tool? Wall in and build some tool army or just gun for bronze as fast as I can with walls?

Thanks vmay, Popov and Blitz for this great thread.

vmay
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 11:21 AM ET (US)     16 / 28       
You are welcome

Whats your zone name? I can play you there sometimes I guess. Maybe it'll help you.

Wizardry
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 12:07 PM ET (US)     17 / 28       
I used to do that semi fast dockbooming thing ass well in the 'oll days.
Untill it 'mastered' tool warfare ...An all out toolrush rapes a dock boomer, im pretty sure popov, is booming like this cuz he's playing two ppl, and that's basicly ur only option, boom like mad and hope to get away with it.
I doubt it he would dockboom, vs an equal 1-1, unless it's a llama map like medit.
If ur dockbooming u gonna be tool in 10-11 mins with shang, a reasonable tooler will be there in 9 mins, which gives him two full minutes to sink those fishing ships, and to take the peons the anal way before the docker equalises in age advancement.

------------------
_Wizardry

Dave
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 12:42 PM ET (US)     18 / 28       
vmay: I'm origdavedave on the zone. I'd love to have a game with ya. It would help a lot. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Dave (edited 06-13-2000).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 05:52 PM ET (US)     19 / 28       
vmay:
Oh you can be sure I will, but I want to practice up first and that's not easy since lately (last 7-8 months) I can't play.
 
Popov didn't win the "Emperor of Rome" RoR tourney. I played with Matty a few times, learned a lot from it. One of the most important things I learned, is that no matter how good someone is, he's still human and does make mistakes. So I'm analyzing anything I can about Popov, so I can be a bit more of a challenge when we finally meet.
 
Wizardry:
I agree his fleet is vulnerable.
 
However, unless you're into massing slingers, I'm not sure about a tool army getting past his *shang wall* and "taking his peons the anal way" before he can tool and make a larger defense army. That's why I'd try to bronze once the sea is mine and I can fish the seas dry.
Wizardry
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 05:55 PM ET (US)     20 / 28       
You don't get walls in stone age, as said a tooler will tool ~1-2 minutes faster over a dockboomer

------------------
_Wizardry

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 05:56 PM ET (US)     21 / 28       
I go to brz directly only if I am 100% SURE nobody is gonna tool me: as simple...If not, I tool him to death and NO WAY he'll survive for more than 10 mins in a 1v1 game.

Another thing Wedsaz: I had 1 big group of army in this game and spend rest on eco cuz I knew it was over: I usullay have at least 2 full grousp checknig the maps. Another thing, my combo eats your Compies-Cams anytime and mine are more efficient to kills villies: either way, you're a dead man :-) Only best combo is Changing CA for HA and in Iron as Shangs, I got for 12 archeriers pumping non-stop usually: no, scyths get ass whooped by my HA (dancing with 75 HA is easy ;P) and dancing can be done vs ennemy siege too.

Well, thx Blitz for all the respect ;P same for vmay and Dave: hope to see you guys soon on the zone.

Ask anything else if I forgot to reply to something already posted...There were many new messages from my last post

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 05:57 PM ET (US)     22 / 28       
Wizardry:
LoL forgot about that, he might dock-block though.
SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 05:59 PM ET (US)     23 / 28       
BTW, my FB fleet is safe, don,t worry: I luv when pplz try to get my fb: makes my job easier.

'bout the Matty tourny: I wasn,t in the RoR community at this time anyway and Matty rox anyway: end of story.

I played Stalin 3-4 days after he won the last tourny and I got my fun there...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 06:07 PM ET (US)     24 / 28       
SuN_Cam_Popov:
LoL, I really wish I could play. Your strat's biggest flaw: you're overconfident.
 
Compies+camels eats cavs+camels+CAs, the camels can kill any of those and the compies kill you while you dance. Oh and I don't go primarily for villies, there's other ways to waste an economy.
 
Your FBs may be safe vs shang warboats, but minoan quite simply has a superior navy.
 
Finally I'd like to say I have great respect for anyyone who can stand my rantings, so thanx for listening.
Wizardry
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 06:09 PM ET (US)     25 / 28       
With all respect, just how many times have you faced a dedicated expert tool rusher? meaning a 8.30-9.00 tool time with 6-8 clubbies arrived in tool, upgrading armor right away, and then slings non stop?
All the wood you invested in ur fleet will never be repaid back it's simple as that.

I noticed on ur average times u tool in 12.30, while the faster toolers will be there in 9, that's 2,30 mins bro which u gonna hafta survive

------------------
_Wizardry

RomanGladius
AOKH DM Champion
posted 06-13-00 08:30 PM ET (US)     26 / 28       
great advice popov...i never see you on the zone tho Sebs told me ur canadian, when are you on? (I never see Sebsoft on anymore either...wonder where he went...)

btw Blitz if you have that many boats on Conti IMO something's wrong. Do you send every villager after vilie 6 to wood? You get a ton of baots that way, but it slows your tool time and its rather pointless to me (just means ull finish all ur fish a min be4 bronze instead of a min after). I usually go with first 6 on berries, 7, next 12-15 on wood and then the rest back on food so I can speed by Tool and Bronze times. (If I'm on medit once I have food for tool I will stick all my villagers on wood since I have 20 fbs gathering food which is more than enough for a boat war.) Dunno what popov or any other expert thinks about this...

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 06-13-00 11:00 PM ET (US)     27 / 28       
Wedsaz: I used to play all my games as Minos and using MASS compies...with Casv and/or Cams + StS but this new combo (Cavs-Cams-CA) beats it: sorry.

Wizardry: I can make 12:30 brz times and faster tool than those that you just mentionned: I tool rush when I know I might have to (or I need to tool...map dependant or depends of the teams(mine and the ennemy)...).

Roman: Well, we played only once vs I think and it was in rated (tourny setts...conti large) and I was on a smurf id ;P sorry and I won. Sebsoft is a good friend of mine (only on internet tho) and we live in the same province...I live at 100 miles away from him (so near of me=makes 160 KM). He don,t play RoR much cuz of the competition in rated that kinda "sux" and also cuz he got bored...As simple. BTW, you never saw me online cuz I got privacy enabled so if you aren't on my zone friends list, you won,t see me online Now, you are on my list Lucky you are, you know that! ;P

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-14-00 01:49 PM ET (US)     28 / 28       
RomanGladius:

On a Conti map, I do have usually 8-10 land villies on food. I do a boat boom, usually try to get a 25/13 ratio of land/water villies. I usually Tool faster (try to around 10:30-11:00) on a Conti Map rather than on a Medit map (12:00-13:00). I have also found that Tool boat wars are 1-2 minutes later on Conti than on Medit. You must take your fleet around one side of his continent, while he might be going on the other side to yours.

Because of this, I usually defend my fb's at my docks until I have 10-12 War Galleys to attack on sea on Conti. I try to win Conti games on land in Tool and early Bronze.

Medit is primarily boat Tool wars, and Conti is land Tool wars.

I always get too greedy on a Medit map. 99% of the games I lose on a Medit map come down to me wanting 27-30 land villas, and I put them all on wood. I rely solely on my fishing fleet to get me to Tool. My goal is to have 6 - 8 Scout Ships in Tool immediatetly. I have found a second food source for land villies to go to on Medit to get the Tool time down, but I am having a hard time breaking the habit of a big boom.

Btw what is your Zone ID these days?

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