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Scenario Design and Modding
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Topic Subject: Age of Empires: Beyond the Indus Expansion
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posted 09-01-16 03:12 PM ET (US)   
The expansion is looking promising, we are steadily doing our own part at our own pace and have made (and not made) multiple decisions regarding the expansion. Wish us luck, if you would be so kind.

Features:
Indian Building Set
4 new Civilizations - Alpha stage bonuses
X new Researches (Decided on)
5 new Units (Decided on)
New Interfaces
New Menu Backgrounds (Working on)
Game improving features
New Soundtrack (Working on)

Hurdles:
Turtle Pack Glitch, when two darkest player colours do not change player colour
Anything that is hard coded.

Notice
I would ask that people on the team would refrain from publicly sharing what the new content is in the expansion for now.

Job List:
Epd999: Data editor, Death Match AI maker
Phatfish: Soundtrack, UI
yohomes2: Modeling & Post processing
Todler: Modeling & Post processing
Chab: Software editor
Mystery Man: ...

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 04-13-2017 @ 07:59 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-14-16 12:20 PM ET (US)     101 / 302  
I have no experience creating textures.
CustomizeAOE has more features, less user friendly and not us popular
Functionality over popularity and user friendlyness, IMO.

As far as I know CustomizeAoE has the following AoK features: Triggers, Map Copy and re-seedable farms.
shift clicking adding 5 in the queue, villagers automatically going to work after putting down a resource drop-off building
Yes please!
posted 10-14-16 02:40 PM ET (US)     102 / 302  
As far as I know CustomizeAoE has the following AoK features: Triggers, Map Copy and re-seedable farms.
Doesn't it have rally points too? That would be a nice feature to see in an expansion.
posted 10-14-16 09:07 PM ET (US)     103 / 302  
With a maximum of 5 new units to choice from, it is going to be difficult. Here is a list of units that would fit in Age of Empires:
Infantry - Hand-Axeman, Maceman, Dagger-Axeman, Warrior, Brute, Beserker?, Pathfinder, Spearman, Immortal, Skirmishers/Peltast, Strong Slinger
Archer - Archer, Atlatlist, Heavy Bowman, Crossbowman, Bamboo Bowman, Heavy/Scythe Chariot Archer, Camel Archer, Armored Elephant Archer
Stable - War Chariot, Light Cavalry, Armored Camelry, Heavy Camel Rider
Ship - Dromon?, Quinquereme, Naval Ram
Siege - Siege tower, Battering Ram, Flamethrower/Fire Siphon?
Passive - Trader/Merchant, Caravan, Druid

There will be others I have missed but that is all I have for now

My pick would be if...
Indian Themed - Trader/Merchant, Armored Camelry, Naval Ram, Camel Archer & Archer/Bamboo Bowman
Northern Themed - Light Cavalry, Spearman, Trader/Merchant, Crossbowman/Druid & Battering Ram/Naval Ram
Meso-American Themed - Warrior, Pathfinder, Atlatlist, Naval Ram, Trader/Merchant & Skirmishers/Peltast
Nomadic - Heavy/Scythe Chariot Archer, Light Cavalry, Armored Camelry, Trader/Merchant & Pathfinder
African - Light Cavalry, Spearman, Atlatlist, Naval Ram & Trader/Merchant
Polynesian - Warrior, Pathfinder, Druid, Spearman & Skirmishers/Peltast

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-14-2016 @ 09:25 PM).]

posted 10-14-16 10:31 PM ET (US)     104 / 302  
I always liked how RoR has three completely new units (Slinger, Camel, Fire Galley) and two new upgrades (Scythe and AE). Something like this might not be a bad formula to follow, in my opinion. That could help the decision-making.
posted 10-15-16 01:20 AM ET (US)     105 / 302  
I agree the original formula is best and we already have 2 new upgrades slinger and camel competed alreday.

For new units we have the merchant and the flame thrower alreday done.Can use the hero jason as a new unit too.

Main focus of adding units should be balance rather than anything else.
posted 10-15-16 03:56 AM ET (US)     106 / 302  
I always liked how RoR has three completely new units and two new upgrades
That doesn't sound to bad actually. We'll do that then.
For new units we have the merchant and the flame thrower alreday done.Can use the hero jason as a new unit too.
I agree with you on the Merchant, but not the others. I never really liked the concept of the Flamethrower (becoming the strongest melee unit in the game when todler implemented it) and the lateness of the flamethrower (800 CE). Fire ships were used in naval warfare (Though not quite how age of empires portrays them) in 400 BCE. I think that either we swap the formula around and add naval ram to the fire galley or we add the battering ram. The Khopesh Warrior would probably work if we were doing a unique unit for Egypt kind of thing and doesn't feel right imo. (I have an idea on how to use it though but I'm not sure if it would work for aoe & also wanted to write more info on how it it wouldn't work but didn't have time )

If I had to choose the 5 units that would be added (not architectural specific) it would be: Trader/Merchant, Naval Ram, Armored Camelry, an anti archer unit (skirmisher/camel archer/strong slinger etc.) & Battering Ram or Siege Tower

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-15-2016 @ 01:42 PM).]

posted 10-15-16 04:53 AM ET (US)     107 / 302  
Having diversity and usefulness for old civs should be main focus for the units. Keep in mind they are not unique but common, unless you go the road of exclusive indian etc tech trees?

For RoR, because of their late empire, it wasn't hard to add Elephants and Camels in the mix.

Also not all buildings have slots for new unit lines, hence why upgrades are chosen to fill in. If elephants are not moved, Archery Range and Stables have no free slots. Dock is full too(i'd really love a new ship though...)

This leaves Barracks, Siege Workshop and Academy(you could put archers here i guess).
posted 10-15-16 05:42 AM ET (US)     108 / 302  
In that case maybe go for 3 upgrades and 2 new units?
I think some civis don't have an academy so adding more units there might unbalance that civi.
If I remember right there was an elephant unit with no rider maybe he can be a siege type of unit for the indians?I doubt the ingame use of rams or ram ships.
posted 10-15-16 06:07 AM ET (US)     109 / 302  
Would love elephants moved to academies though, would have them as a larger incentive to be built, and could be used as an alternative for non-hoplite civs (I honestly don't see the lack of it as 'unbalanced')

As mentioned the theme for new units, should be dependent on the theme, but nevertheless should at least contain the Caravan and maybe the Battering Ram.

I'd say for Northern: Strong Axeman, Caravan, Battering Ram, Light Cavalry and the Spearman (possibly a spearman line?).

I don't think there should be a point for adding a druid, it just sounds like a priest.

In terms of new techs, I would like to see an RoR version of Thumb Ring (since Thumb Rings were actually things even before Sumeria)

(Are there any deadlines for the poll results?)

Creator of AoM Expanded Mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1828492742) and Mod on AoEWiki (Morayus1)
posted 10-15-16 07:47 AM ET (US)     110 / 302  
I have no experience creating textures.
What kind of Photoshop skills do you have?
Doesn't it have rally points too? That would be a nice feature to see in an expansion.
Yes, also a thing added in aoe2.

Empty slots are indeed a concern but also keep in mind that any new units need to be generic so the old civilizations can also get them.
posted 10-15-16 09:48 AM ET (US)     111 / 302  
we can add the already completed units buildings eye candy etc as scenario editor objects so they wont go waste.
posted 10-15-16 12:30 PM ET (US)     112 / 302  
Or we keep them for the sequel to this expansion .
posted 10-15-16 01:42 PM ET (US)     113 / 302  
Would love elephants moved to academies though
I'm in favor of freeing up space in the Stables & Archery Range.
Are there any deadlines for the poll results?
Not officially but we may need to start rapping it up soon.
don't think there should be a point for adding a druid, it just sounds like a priest.
I thought a druid would be a kind of defect unit that lowers line of sight, attack and/or speed of enemy units in its Line of Sight
we can add the already completed units buildings eye candy etc as scenario editor objects so they wont go waste.
We could do that or... Use them in the next expansion .

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-15-2016 @ 01:43 PM).]

posted 10-15-16 02:32 PM ET (US)     114 / 302  
I'm not so sure about moving elephants to Academy. Wouldn't that be too much of a departure from the original AoE/RoR? Also, what would be the logical explanation for it? War Elephants/AEs are trained at the Stable because they're animals, Elephant Archers are trained at the Archery Range because they're archers.

However, it still would be nice to have something totally new at the Academy. There wasn't much reason to have the Academy with just one unit there, since the Hoplite line could've been in the Barracks.

A more primitive spearman would be great, though I think such a unit should be available in Tool. And I don't think the Academy should be moved to Tool (too advanced for Tool Age).
posted 10-15-16 03:47 PM ET (US)     115 / 302  
I have contacted the riseofrome.net forum for beta testers.
I'm not so sure about moving elephants to Academy.
I just said I was in for freeing up space, it doesn't seem right doing it but unless we can add a second train page it is the only way we ca do it unless we add a new building.
However, it still would be nice to have something totally new at the Academy.
We could look at it like a place to train unique units like the age of kings castle, with unique technologies as well.

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-15-2016 @ 03:48 PM).]

posted 10-15-16 04:08 PM ET (US)     116 / 302  
If it's decided to move any units at all, it might actually make more sense to move chariots to the Academy, considering the nobility surrounding them and the skills and experience required for driving a chariot.

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 10-15-2016 @ 04:30 PM).]

posted 10-16-16 04:04 AM ET (US)     117 / 302  
But then again Chariot require horses which are animals, and should be at the stable

congratulations you played yourself

Creator of AoM Expanded Mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1828492742) and Mod on AoEWiki (Morayus1)

[This message has been edited by XLightningStormL (edited 10-16-2016 @ 04:04 AM).]

posted 10-16-16 01:42 PM ET (US)     118 / 302  
Game improving features like: the ability to double click a single unit, select others of the same unit-type and unit queuing, selecting more than 25 units
These are RoR features right?

So the AoEH poll results are in with the Northern architecture having won the voting round, and the Indian architecture coming in second with only one vote less.

Just to get this out of the way: I have the ability to increase or decrease the amount of votes, being an admin, but did no such thing (never have, btw). To my knowledge everything went fair.

We have two options: Either we stick to the poll result, or since the results are so incredibly close, we do a compromise - I know many of you would rather have the Indian set, which would be fine with me, so in that case I would suggest we add a few Northern style buildings and eye-candies but the main focus would be Indian, or, vice versa.
posted 10-16-16 01:47 PM ET (US)     119 / 302  
What kind of Photoshop skills do you have?
Basic skills, I don't know all of the functions (have an older version, CS2), but enough to make nice things I can do the main UI if you like.

Double post because I can. BAM.
posted 10-16-16 02:12 PM ET (US)     120 / 302  
Phatfish ending the poll prematurely and without any ones knowledge has made it difficult. But we have decided to stick with Indians since progress has already been made on the graphics, sorry to those who wanted Northern themed civilizations. On the other hand Phatfish I have emailed you in regards to our Skype group. It should make decisions swifter and will give us more time to communicate.

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-16-2016 @ 02:13 PM).]

posted 10-16-16 02:17 PM ET (US)     121 / 302  
ending the poll prematurely and without any ones knowledge
Last week I announced that I would be keeping the poll open for one more week, it's in this thread.

I'll look in my e-mail and let you know.
posted 10-16-16 08:40 PM ET (US)     122 / 302  
congratulations you played yourself
Nope. I was just saying it would make more sense to move chariots to the Academy than it would elephants "if it's decided to move any units at all," but I don't really think either should move if it can be avoided.

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 10-16-2016 @ 09:25 PM).]

posted 10-17-16 08:41 AM ET (US)     123 / 302  
On the whole Idea of the "Bamboo Bowman" idea since...

Actually wait, wouldn't it be more fitting to have a Heavy Chariot Archer? Since the Mauryan Indians were still using chariot archers and the related, although I'd be game for the Improved Slinger (better than Strong Slinger btw) or maybe even an Armored Elephant Archer to fit the Indian theme.

The Naval Ram I see no point at all since the Dock has a lack of space, and even then if you can get around that, without a proper working true counter system, blah blah, just add a Siege Elephant (with a Ballista) or Battering Ram or something.

As for Civs here are some plausible options:
Mauryans
Bamars
Malay
Indus
Viets
Bactrians

Creator of AoM Expanded Mod (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1828492742) and Mod on AoEWiki (Morayus1)
posted 10-17-16 01:35 PM ET (US)     124 / 302  
Out of all the possible units to have upgrades for, I would vote Slinger and Camel over anything else.

An upgrade to Elephant Archer would be good, but what do people think of a totally new kind of elephant unit that could be added (unrelated to Archer or AE)? What I mean is an elephant unit that uses a different weapon or form of combat (spears or something). I thought that might be interesting. Just an idea.

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 10-17-2016 @ 03:56 PM).]

posted 10-18-16 10:48 AM ET (US)     125 / 302  
As far as I know CustomizeAoE has the following AoK features: Triggers, Map Copy and re-seedable farms.
Doesn't it have rally points too? That would be a nice feature to see in an expansion.
F9 key actually makes idle military units go to mouse position.
There are some other similar features in customizeAOE, like setting a destination for newly-spwaned units, buttons to tell catapults (or other units) not to auto-attack villagers, set a position to defend (when unit is idle, it comes back to the position), multi-queuing of different units (e.g. 1 clubman then 1 slinger then 1 clubman again) etc.

As for new game modes, I recently developed a "Age of might and magic" mod where units sometimes spawn as epic (with unique - improved - attributes), and where units can reach levels (and get better attributes) after killing a certain amount of enemies.
I've thought about adding a mod where you can choose random civs (civs tech tree and bonuses are generated at game start, randomly). Strategy generation would allow this mod to be compatible with SP games. But I've not worked on this at all at this point.
Also, as Phatfish said, triggers allow to create very new kinds of scenarios
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