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Scenario Design and Modding
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Topic Subject: Age of Empires: Beyond the Indus Expansion
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posted 09-01-16 03:12 PM ET (US)   
The expansion is looking promising, we are steadily doing our own part at our own pace and have made (and not made) multiple decisions regarding the expansion. Wish us luck, if you would be so kind.

Features:
Indian Building Set
4 new Civilizations - Alpha stage bonuses
X new Researches (Decided on)
5 new Units (Decided on)
New Interfaces
New Menu Backgrounds (Working on)
Game improving features
New Soundtrack (Working on)

Hurdles:
Turtle Pack Glitch, when two darkest player colours do not change player colour
Anything that is hard coded.

Notice
I would ask that people on the team would refrain from publicly sharing what the new content is in the expansion for now.

Job List:
Epd999: Data editor, Death Match AI maker
Phatfish: Soundtrack, UI
yohomes2: Modeling & Post processing
Todler: Modeling & Post processing
Chab: Software editor
Mystery Man: ...

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 04-13-2017 @ 07:59 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-09-16 07:15 AM ET (US)     76 / 302  
I guess we would use RoR as a base template to work on? Is there a way to make AoE and RoR recognize a second custom expansion? Could just be a simple version change in the exe and changing the data2 path to data3. Would that work?
posted 10-09-16 08:39 AM ET (US)     77 / 302  
This is what was added in RoR.
-1 building set
-4 new civilizations
-4 new researches
-5 new units
-new interfaces
-new menu backgrounds
-game improving features like: the ability to double click a single unit and select others of the same unit-type and unit queuing
-larger maps
-new sound track

(Am I missing something?)


Yohomes2 and I can take care of all the graphical stuff except for drawing new menu backgrounds.

[This message has been edited by Jan dc (edited 10-09-2016 @ 08:39 AM).]

posted 10-09-16 09:12 AM ET (US)     78 / 302  
Why not include things like eyecandy objects and things hidden like the valcano.

Someone should make a list of things to be added rather than doing random things.

[This message has been edited by Mahazona (edited 10-09-2016 @ 09:49 AM).]

posted 10-09-16 10:18 AM ET (US)     79 / 302  
I guess we would use RoR as a base template to work on? Is there a way to make AoE and RoR recognize a second custom expansion? Could just be a simple version change in the exe and changing the data2 path to data3. Would that work?
This is something that I already made possible with customROR:

- you can specify which empires.dat file to use (can be any location)
- you can specify which interface DRS files to use
- you can load additional DRS files from any location
- you can add language localized text from files from any location (in text format, which is way more practical than DLL)
- For AI files, strategy generation can make the trick (btw I found a bug with all techs, will be fixed in next release). Otherwise there's an option to specify AI file to use for custom civilizations depending on game type (RM/DM) and map type (water/land/mixed)
- Additional researches are not an issue
- Additional units are not an issue provided that they are consistent for all civs
- you can even use other mods that add custom code in empiresX.exe (thanks to ROR_API system)

Most of these features are supported in 4 versions of the game (AOE b/c, ROR b/c). Which means a mod using additional graphics (DRS), a specific empires.dat, additional strings would work the same in all these versions without having to do any additional work.

This also means you can create a mod without having to interfere with game files (empires.dat, DRS files, language.dll, etc).
This also means a standard ROR can coexist with a modded ROR (depending on which EXE you run).

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 10-09-2016 @ 10:25 AM).]

posted 10-09-16 10:31 AM ET (US)     80 / 302  
Does it also support additional civs and interfaces?
posted 10-09-16 10:54 AM ET (US)     81 / 302  
Were the original culture UIs drawn(2d) or rendered from 3d scenes?

A pretty HD render of the new buildings might work as the intro/main menu background.
posted 10-09-16 11:45 AM ET (US)     82 / 302  
Were the original culture UIs drawn(2d) or rendered from 3d scenes?
The textures were drawn by hand but that's not a problem. There are plenty of textures for it on the internet.
A pretty HD render of the new buildings might work as the intro/main menu background.
True that could maybe work as well. Will have to see if we can get it in the same quality as the original ones.
posted 10-09-16 12:19 PM ET (US)     83 / 302  
I think using some google graphics or aok ones for that matter, won't make this project look polished enough. Maybe we can get Kondrikthus or anoter 2d artist for the indian UI bar then? It's only one image that repeats, it shouldn't be a big deal.

@Phatfish, do you think you can make a short main menu track for this? RoR is about a minute, right?
posted 10-09-16 03:49 PM ET (US)     84 / 302  
Does it also support additional civs and interfaces?
yes of course, I was the first to implement the support of additional civilizations.

What do you mean by interfaces ?
posted 10-09-16 04:17 PM ET (US)     85 / 302  
Seems I haven't even begun to explore the full potential of CustomizeAoE, since my main focus is on using it for scenario design. Also I think the addition of Triggers in the new expansion is something everyone would welcome (which is already possible with CustomizeAoE/Ror for a while now), as well as the greatly enhanced AI. I assume the following is easy to do, but is a custom icon for the new .exe possible?

I know my way around photoshop so I might be able to assist with some stuff there as well.

I have pretty much all the means of creating a new main menu track, I'll see what I can do. No promises though
posted 10-09-16 06:28 PM ET (US)     86 / 302  
I think using some google graphics or aok ones for that matter, won't make this project look polished enough. Maybe we can get Kondrikthus or anoter 2d artist for the indian UI bar then? It's only one image that repeats, it shouldn't be a big deal.
A good 2D artist can do that but so far there's no one here for that.
yes of course, I was the first to implement the support of additional civilizations.
What do you mean by interfaces ?
Ok cool. I mean the building set specific UIs.
I know my way around photoshop so I might be able to assist with some stuff there as well.
In what regard? Do you know how to make textures and things like that?
I have pretty much all the means of creating a new main menu track, I'll see what I can do. No promises though
Nice
posted 10-10-16 06:27 AM ET (US)     87 / 302  
I mean the building set specific UIs.
OK, it's about additional graphics.
They can be added in a separate DRS file (no need to mess with original files).
However I think there's some adaptation to do in the EXE because it's not supposed to support more tilesets.
posted 10-10-16 07:29 AM ET (US)     88 / 302  
That's good. Yeah userpatch already supports that and it would be great if you could implement the new tilesets too. Then we can use the other great features you added.
posted 10-10-16 08:25 AM ET (US)     89 / 302  
I'll have a look to this when I can
posted 10-10-16 11:39 PM ET (US)     90 / 302  
I am available on skype, you can find my skype username in my user profile.
I don't think we should count both polls towards the final score, because it is highly likely that people who have voted on the Yohomes poll have also voted on the other aoe heaven poll, therefore it would be counting votes, particularly ours, twice. At this point on the aoe heaven poll India & Northern are tying, although the community that is committing to the project are talking about India, Northern has only be mentioned a few times.
Phatfish, I know you have created music for Age of Italy and was considering using the music for the expansion. The soundtrack would work better if the Nothern archeticture is chosen and won't work well with Indian. Also if Heunabu is still lurking around in the backgrounds you are welcome to join as well.
Chab is it even possible to add larger maps to age of empires through the exe or is it hard coded?
Jan, should I just add you to the list? Because despite what you said earlier you still task yourself jobs in the project.
Again the biggest hurdle so far would be the Turtle Pack Glitch, when two darkest player colors do not change player color, would anyone be able to fix or avoid the issue?
And one final question are we using Upatch, CustomizeAOE or will we try using both?

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-11-2016 @ 00:40 AM).]

posted 10-11-16 03:59 AM ET (US)     91 / 302  
there is a technical limit on map size, the maximum is 255*255
posted 10-11-16 04:17 AM ET (US)     92 / 302  
I think having one size larger map like in UP(not sure about the actual dimensions) is enough.

New gameplay modes/types would be also interesting. Having to escort the same artifact in all campaigns gets boring haha.
posted 10-11-16 08:13 AM ET (US)     93 / 302  
I don't think we should count both polls towards the final score, because it is highly likely that people who have voted on the Yohomes poll have also voted on the other aoe heaven poll, therefore it would be counting votes, particularly ours, twice. At this point on the aoe heaven poll India & Northern are tying, although the community that is committing to the project are talking about India, Northern has only be mentioned a few times.
Which poll is the right one then? But yeah I think we should take India too. Seems we're leaning more towards this one and Yohomes2 already showed the Indian stable.
Chab is it even possible to add larger maps to age of empires through the exe or is it hard coded?
Rather than larger maps what about aoe2 features?
Jan, should I just add you to the list? Because despite what you said earlier you still task yourself jobs in the project.
I've not tasked myself with a job yet, just exploring things and helping out Yohomes2. I'm currently not in the position to help out officially with this project.
Again the biggest hurdle so far would be the Turtle Pack Glitch, when two darkest player colors do not change player color, would anyone be able to fix or avoid the issue?
Unless we got the source code of turtle pack it will be difficult. You can use an older tool or if you have programmers make a new one.
And one final question are we using Upatch, CustomizeAOE or will we try using both?
Don't think they're compatible. But if CustomizeAOE can implement more tilesets, that would be the better one.
New gameplay modes/types would be also interesting. Having to escort the same artifact in all campaigns gets boring haha.
CustomizeAOE adds triggers so that gives a lot more options.

[This message has been edited by Jan dc (edited 10-11-2016 @ 08:14 AM).]

posted 10-11-16 08:31 AM ET (US)     94 / 302  
Which aoe2 features?

Example of such trigger options? Also i was talking for RM too, like there is a monument in aoe2(although it's a bit similar to the ruins).

Edit: making use of the discovery mechanic would be interesting, like if a team cover all, they win instantly. Only once to put a flag is enough, no need to keep a unit there.

[This message has been edited by todler (edited 10-11-2016 @ 08:40 AM).]

posted 10-11-16 11:21 AM ET (US)     95 / 302  
I think we need a group chat. Communicating slowly through this forum will cause many delays.
posted 10-12-16 00:49 AM ET (US)     96 / 302  
Which poll is the right one then?
aoe heavengames poll
What about aoe2 features?
Be more specific, are you talking about unique units, domesticate-able animals, relics, map copy, etc?
I've not tasked myself with a job yet
'Yohomes2 and I can take care of all the graphical stuff except for drawing new menu backgrounds.' - Jan DC
You can use an older tool or if you have programmers make a new one
I have considered this and openly ask if anyone can, please communicate this with us that you are able to.
Don't think they're compatible. But if CustomizeAOE can implement more tilesets, that would be the better one.
CustomizeAOE has more features, less user friendly and not us popular. If chab and aoe_scout can actually collaborate on the project, then the problem would be sorted, but aoe_scout has been afk as of late.
making use of the discovery mechanic would be interesting, like if a team cover all, they win instantly. Only once to put a flag is enough, no need to keep a unit there.
It would be nice, but instantly winning is a bit farfetched imo, some sort of bonus yes, but not winning.
I think we need a group chat. Communicating slowly through this forum will cause many delays.
I have said that I am available on Skype. If you continue to ask and don't act, it would be a nuisance.

@Eurotool, what is your Skype?

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 10-12-2016 @ 00:53 AM).]

posted 10-12-16 04:45 AM ET (US)     97 / 302  
Nvm this post here

[This message has been edited by yohomes2 (edited 10-12-2016 @ 04:58 AM).]

posted 10-12-16 05:46 AM ET (US)     98 / 302  
Be more specific, are you talking about unique units, domesticate-able animals, relics, map copy, etc?
Gameplay improvements like shift clicking adding 5 in the queue, reseed-able farms, villagers automatically going to work after putting down a resource drop-off building, ...

All of these are very improbable without the source code but we can always ask.
'Yohomes2 and I can take care of all the graphical stuff except for drawing new menu backgrounds.'
Yes like I said I'll aid Yohomes2 in the graphical stuff. Still doesn't mean I can commit to this project. I'll be more like a consultant.
I have considered this and openly ask if anyone can, please communicate this with us that you are able to.
Has anyone ever wrote documentation for this? That would go a long way if someone would want to start on this.
posted 10-12-16 06:23 AM ET (US)     99 / 302  
There should have been a documentation(i'm lazy to search now ), because i think Turtle Pack was based on the previous SLP editor.

All these aoe2 features sound good.

Something different: what about adding a king equivalent?
posted 10-12-16 11:22 PM ET (US)     100 / 302  
I have toggled with the idea of a king equivalent, and the hardest thing would be finding a name that fits all civilizations, unless we have different names for each.

There are a lot of cool features each of us would like to be added to the age of empires expansion. It would be easier if we somehow listed all of them out and chose like 2-5 from the list.

Thanks to those who have contacted me on Skype.

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?
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