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Topic Subject: how to use martydom
posted 11-20-04 00:04 AM ET (US)   
how do you use it?
Replies:
posted 11-20-04 00:58 AM ET (US)     1 / 17  
Select priest, click on target, wait for priest to start gesticulating and mumbling, and delete priest.

You lose the priest, but get guaranteed instant conversion.


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posted 11-20-04 03:08 AM ET (US)     2 / 17  
Martyrdom is the nemesis of Hittite catapults and other Civ's Armored Elephants. Egyptian still get a kick out of that, since they don't have a lot of use for the gold, but can mine it damn fast.

Just 3 days ago I entered a game where I was Egyptian. I was using (can you guess?...) mostly scythes, when I was starting to lose against a mix of Eles and Cats.

The problem was that the Elephants made almost impossible for my Scytes to reach the Catapults...

Well, I put my brain to work, made 9 Temples (almost had to stop Scythe production for that!...), put 5 of them churning out Priests and 4 making upgrades and bingo!... My army of armored Elephants and "Egyptian" Catapults was soon bigger than the opponent's, LOL!

In the end, I lost the game, because their ally, who was in the back, not fighting, finally came up with his Hittite HHA and Scythes and came around my troops, killing most of the priests and a number of villagers. I was going 1x3 (my two allies were dead (one) or worthless (the other), so I could not resist this blow and GG.

Still I had a kick, I only had to use martyrdom 3 or 4 times, this completely put they army in disarray and I was able to convert most of the remaining effortlessly, while they turned their attention to the "traitors"...

Besides Egyptian, other Scythe Civs like Roman, babylonian and so on may want to may want to use this, because you'll have a extra gold some time after you switch to fighting with your wood+food units...


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posted 11-20-04 06:22 AM ET (US)     3 / 17  
It's useless against anything but seige weaponary, IMO.

DR LORENZO
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posted 11-20-04 08:53 AM ET (US)     4 / 17  
Martyrdom is all about resource trade off. Priests cost 125 gold. If the unit you are converting costs more than that martyr, if it's a unit you don't have in your tech tree, martyr. If you can convert without martyrdom, do. Only use martyrdom as a last resort.

For Choson, martyrdom is more useful because your priests are a lot cheaper.

But yes, they are still the most useful against catapults.


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posted 11-20-04 01:05 PM ET (US)     5 / 17  
It's also good against trannys filled with powerful units that you don't want to land. Convert the tranny and hide it - then the enemy's pop count stays the same with less effective units. (I found that in one of the strategy articles btw).
posted 11-20-04 02:13 PM ET (US)     6 / 17  
And I had a multiplayer with my friend a few months ago where he was choson and I was egyptian. I won, because I kept irritating him with the following - sent 2 elephants forward, followed by 1 full-tech priest each time. The priest could get to the long-range choson ballista tower, convert it with martyrdom, than the elephants usually would return, get healed, etc. This irritating on several frontlines made him distracted with rebuilding his towers and watching the minimap while I prepared for a final assault.
posted 11-20-04 07:16 PM ET (US)     7 / 17  
Martydom is most useful against towers, and for defending a wonder. Using cheao CAs you can distract the towers, then send in all your priests and take them. Now that area is yours. You need a monothiest civ though.

When converting a unit that has just gone into a transport, you can keep converting while it is inside, so when they unload you find it belongs to them.

Another way to avoid transports is to wall the shore. If it's just a single ungaurded transportsa the wall foundations will stop it.

Against siege martydom is good because the cats auto aim for the converted one and do big splash damage, and you don't have time to stop them.

Converting a unit is worth the units cost multiplies by two (you get it, they lose it), then divide by it's %HP if you don'y have a chance to heal it, and also consider if it will be killed instantly by it's former allies (in which case the conversion is almost worthless, and not worth martyrdom. Also consider if there are catapults around, if there are, and they can do good splash damage it is well worth it.


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posted 11-20-04 09:33 PM ET (US)     8 / 17  
Distracting towers to get a priest close is only good in single player or against newbies. More experienced players will select the towers and manually target the priest.

A better trick if a tower is next to shore, would be to unload a priest from a transport next to it so you can martyr him almost immediately.


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posted 11-21-04 05:40 AM ET (US)     9 / 17  
I think that the value of Martyrdom is related to a few factors, that it might be useful to list here.

First and foremost is the difficulty of converting the unit - otherwise you wouldn't even be talking about Martyrdom in the first place.
Immediatelly next is the offensive value of the enemy unit being converted. It may be a unit that is dealing a huge lot of damage to your units and structures (in this case Martyrdom is worth what you will save) or it may be a unit that will kill your priest for sure and you want to (at least) get that value for the Priest.
Finally, there is the element of chance - if in any case you don't want to risk a conversion and lose the priest for nothing - then you pay the price to be sure.

Rarely will you consider the intrinsic value of the unit being converted - simply because there are none worth that much of a non-recoverable resource such as gold.

My best conversion so far with Martyrdom was funny. The Hitite enemy was sending waves of Scythes my way, but I had scouted his town with a priest (a priest is the best scout that there is).
His scythes were better than mine (of course, I was Bab, not all techs, miss Chain mail and Metallurgy) and, despite the fact that I was using ballista towers to hold, I knew that it was only a matter of time before I would be overrun. In fact, I suspected he would not bring in Catapults (my scythes had alraedy murdered 7 of his Catapults) but instead armored elephants, which can kill towers easy and resist the scythes.
It was then that I found that he had ONE Heavy catapult left alone near a huge cluster of his houses. Together with it were 1 HA, and a couple of CA. I thought I had no chance to convert the Catapult, becaus the CA were in my direction - so I martyr'ed the Catapult, tore down most of his houses and his Scythe production fell to a trickle (and he took quite a while to notice it, LOL!...) so I Scythe-flooded him and, despite the inferior quality and the fact that he already had quite a few elephants (of which I still managed to convert 4, at the cost of one priest) I managed to make better because he never really got around the loss of the houses.

So you see, I have 2 cases, the earlier one might have won me a victory, but this one certainly did!...

How come I had forgotten this one? But here it is. Houses are SO important in flood wars, when you have Scythe ot CA fights, remember this, to look for his houses, they'll be clusterd somewhere, a few Scythes sent there can make all the difference.

If you have a good Priest Civ and enough Gold, always research Martyrdom when you are going against a very powerful Civ, like Hitite. You never know.

To be honest, I used Martyrdom very seldom and mostr of the times because I knew the stupid Priest was doomed!

Priest Civs where you can spend 600 Gold on Martyrdom:

Choson
Assyrian
Babylonian
Carthaginian
Egyptian
Persian
Phoenician
Roman
Shang
Sumerian

(edited for typos)


Wise_Max is the slowest player on Earth.
But Wise_Max has a lot of fun playing. So, he always wins even when he loses the game. And he made Friends.
Is that Wise or what?...

[This message has been edited by Wise_Max (edited 11-21-2004 @ 05:53 AM).]

posted 11-21-04 05:42 PM ET (US)     10 / 17  
Quote: (a priest is the best scout that there is).

Except for a scout.... :P

And whoever builds all of their houses in one big cluster is...well, a rook to say the least. Most players tend to make their houses in clumps, yes, but not in one huge clump, so killling their houses often doesnt even slow their production because that housing clump you desroyed was probably the number of houses they were ahead of their production line in the first place. Well, that's what I do

posted 11-21-04 11:36 PM ET (US)     11 / 17  
Priest Scouts are the pitys. I would rather use a cataphract as a scout.

DR LORENZO
AoEH | Woad Creations Alumni
I of course meant bastard in a positive way! - Kor
I just sort of chop away at it when it gets long enough. The ladies love it. - Obese, on shaving
Lorenzo is kind of like that relative everyone knows about but won't talk about. - Crimson Knight
We already knew about the mass murders and gang rapes and ethnic cleansings, but now they've resorted to ENCRYPTING PEOPLES ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS! - drahnier
posted 11-22-04 01:59 AM ET (US)     12 / 17  
Dr Lorenzo:
(sarcasm)
Oh no, blind lame priests are great scouts, especially when there's scythes around every corner.
(/sarcasm)

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posted 11-27-04 02:45 PM ET (US)     13 / 17  
No, mercenaries are the best scouts. But Macedon has the best mercenaries...obviously they get paid more and so they don't disappear into the abyss.

About houses:

That is true although most players don't build many little clumps, they tend to build lots of large clumps so even when one area of housing is wiped out, they still have so many, they're pop cap is still 200.


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posted 06-25-21 06:55 PM ET (US)     14 / 17  
On the Fandom page for Martyrdom, someone commented:
Originally, the Tech made it so that the priest would convert his conversion target if he was killed. (Which, as a child, I found out when the AI got my cheat unit that way.....)

But that was obviously kinda OP, so it seems they changed it somewhere in the last decade. ^^
I just freshly installed AOE:ROR 1.0, and in my playtest, having the Post-Iron Age and letting your priest get killed does not convert the enemy unit that killed your priest, but clicking DELETE on your priest while it is trying to convert the enemy unit does convert the attacking unit. I have not yet installed any patches and the README file does not say "1.0A", so I'm certainly using AOE:ROR 1.0.

There are only two explanations for what the person describes: Either he/she was playing on a previous version (like a Beta version) of AOE:ROR than what I have labeled as version 1.0 (this does not seem likely at first glance but at least theoretically possible), or more likely the AI in his/her playthrough activated the Martyrdom tech by deleting its own unit while you were attacking it. The idea that the AI would delete its own unit to perform the Martyrdom ability seems a little surprising because it doesn't generally delete its own units, but at least conceivable.
posted 09-08-21 07:56 AM ET (US)     15 / 17  
How did the forum software let you necro such an old thread? I can't even reply to my own thread from April 2021 over at Outside Discussions.

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posted 09-08-21 03:33 PM ET (US)     16 / 17  
Yeah since we're one of the cool heavens we don't actually archive threads. And yeah Rakovsky the text is clearly in reference to some development version of the Expansion.

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posted 09-10-21 06:00 AM ET (US)     17 / 17  
The AI never deletes/sacrifices it's own units. Most likely the cheat unit was probably simply converted, and maybe the priest was hit afterwards with a hostile projectile (meaning that missile was already fired prior to converting).
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