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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » hunting gazelles
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Topic Subject:hunting gazelles
blue_myriddn
Clubman
posted 08-23-99 09:55 PM ET (US)         
I've never been much of a successful gazelle hunter, preferring eles, but recently I've started to revisit the topic and maybe polish my hunting skills. I know alot of this is old news, but I haven't heard it brought up in a while, so...

First off, why bother with gazs? They are a big micro-management pain in the butt. However, if you do the math you can see that a herd of gazs can get you ballpark 500-700F and once you practice the management isn't too bad. Additionally, I'm not sure of the exact collection rate, but the food seems to come in faster than with berries. Besides, if you get bad berries, pitting gaz's early on is a pretty viable option (especially if you can use the same pit for your woodies)

That being said, here are a review of the basics in gaz hunting:

1. Use many villies to kill the gaz. Hunters do 4P damage and gazs have 8HP so theoretically, 2 hunters should be able to do the job in one shot, but this is rarely if ever the case because gazs will leap & bound over your spears. I've found that a min of 3 villies works OK, but 4 is much better.

2. Kill all gaz's at once to prevent them from running away and drop a pit in the center of the carcasses much like you would for a berry patch.

3. Assign each hunter to a carcass. A good plan is to pull villies off the pit construction one at a time. That way the pit will be ready by the time the first hunter comes in with the meat and you don't have 5-6 villies standing around after the pit is constructed.

4. Hunting is generally best done in Stone/Tool. During Bronze you're spending most of your time managing military and farms are just that much easier. Another good time is when you are running away from an attack you can't beat and relocating. Usually you have many villies and need a food source (plus berries are usually gone by then)

With the basics covered, I've been debating some details. For example, I've tried this out and still haven't decided whether it is effective or not. If I see a herd of gazs conviently located to where I will pit my first forest, I'll send the 3-5 villies that will build the pit over to kill all the gaz's first and then build the pit. I'll still place the pit in the best place for the forest, but it will
have the food sorta nearby. I tried having those same villies chop up the meat, but I think that was stupid because I had a big lull in my wood production. Instead as my new-made villies came out I would send them onto the meat. Another option recomended to me is to pull villies from berry duty and put them on the hunt and replace your berry pickers with new-made villies. Of course this will only work if your berry operation and wood/gaz pit are close.

Now I know that this isn't real effecient because I am losing meat to decay, but on the other hand my woodies would have disturbed the gazs and it would have been a real pain to get them later. All in all, I think that it would be worth it.

Another suggestion that I have heard is to use a Tool Archer in your hunting party. I think that the idea has alot of merit for eles because they will kill villies (unlike gaz) and also have lots of HP so your archer isn't as likely to kill the ele. However, for gaz I think this just makes hunting more complex and if you do kill the gaz with your archer, well no food for you. Additionally, I tend to have my archers out killing enemy villies and not hanging around my base, so.....

There has also been a debate about using mass numbers of villies to hunt. Now this will depend somewhat on the number of gaz in th herd (I have seen some sweet herds of 10-15 gaz). Generally for a 5-6 herd I wil use 5-6 hunters. I know that I may lose 25% to decay using 1 villie per carcass rather than 2 or 3, but I also don't have to manage the hunters as much. If I put 10-12 hunters on the kill instead of 5-6 it's true that i will be much more efficent and also twice as fast, but I will also have to go back and check on those villies in half the time. A more skilled player can probably pull this off, but I always come back to find that my villies have been standing around wasting time. So I guess I sorta trade food efficency for management time.


Well that's my thoughts on hunting. I hope that I have inspired a few people to do a little hunting, because ever since I have been working on my hunting all I see now are tons and tons of gaz just waiting to be eaten.

As always, I would love to hear advice/feedback from all you experienced hunters out there, so post away.

AuthorReplies:
Sarmis Zeke
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 01:23 AM ET (US)     1 / 26       
Don't use archers. For some reason if you kill ele's or whatever with archers the meat can't be harvested. DOH!! One of those things that sounds like a good idea, but.....
Vixen
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 07:50 AM ET (US)     2 / 26       
Zeke, the idea here is to WOUND the zelle/ele (or even gator/lion) w/ a military unit and let the villies finish it off. In that case, your villies don't risk getting killed by an ele and the food can be harvested. I still don't think it's such a good idea since this requires even more micromanagement, you'll have to pull the bowman away on time , or you'll have wasted all the ele steaks. DOH indeed!

Sarmis_Vixen

Sarmis Zeke
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 08:11 AM ET (US)     3 / 26       
Oooooooohhhhhh!
Cool, I would have never thought of that. Now that I understand what we are talking about I have to agree with your conclusion Vix "I still don't think it's such a good idea since this requires even more micromanagement".
Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 08:49 AM ET (US)     4 / 26       
hehe yeah i put that idea on the GX about using a archer to remove some hitpoints from the deer and the eles.

I am still gonna use a archer to move the eles close to my villagers for the kill.... as for the deer, i guess i agree with the experts... i am wasting time by using my archer trick on the deer. And i do waste a lot of time so....

Tenaciti.... there is so much to learn

p.s. I was lucky enough to watch blank play/teach and really in stone/tool is it a 'mad crazed dash' for food food food! any and all food

p.s.s. editing because i forgot to add... besides the weird archer thing i do another of the Tenaciti's weird gameplay things is to use wall squares to keep the ele from killing one vill who is spearing him.. hahaaaaa better not do this or you game will be as bad as mine and then there are the 'gazelle corrals' i do too.... aahahahaaa

[This message has been edited by Tenaciti (edited 08-24-99).]

Joe Rockhead
Inactive
posted 08-24-99 10:04 AM ET (US)     5 / 26       
It's actually more efficient (both from the standpoint of amount of food gathered and time spent in micromanagement) to kill all gazelles, build the pit (with everyone) and put all peons on one carcase.

One peon per carcase loses more to decay and wastes much time. As a Persian player I love seeing deer herds and have no problems with idle peons. As long as there aren't 20 of them there they'll find their way to next carcase with no difficulty.

As far as incorporating deer hunting into your start, the wood/deer pit really shouldn't be so far away that the walking distance would have a drastic affect on your times. If your only wood is that far away then it's probably taken you awhile to find it and you're probably hurting pretty bad for wood. Drop everything else and start chopping.

Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 03:41 PM ET (US)     6 / 26       
I never liked hunting gazelles but, in a run of (bad, strange, good?) luck I started getting Persia half the time in random civs. I was forced to try it. I still can't do the pit first start but once I have 6 vills done on a berry patch I don't mind moving them to hunting. I was killing them then building the pit then putting 1, 2 vills on each. After reading Joe Rockhead's response I decided to try some tests in SB. I used 6 vills and 6 dear and the dear where in the dark but I knew roughly where they were. I would sneak up on them and kill them all as close together as possible then build a pit as close as I could to the biggest number of them. I tried 1, 2, 3, and all vills per carcass. The greatest return was from 3 vills per. This did require some management though. I couldn't always kill them together enough for the groups of 3 to move evenly through all 6 carcasses. Even with a bad kill (spread out) 3 per worked as good or better than 1 per in a good kill (in a tight circle with the pit in the middle). This amazed me and I wish someone would explain the decay math so I could make sense of it.
blue_myriddn
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 04:09 PM ET (US)     7 / 26       
Sorry Tenaciti, I should have put down a reference to your name for the bowman technique. As long as I'm doing that, I'll also thank Out4Blood for the idea of taking your berry-pickers off the berries and putting them on the hunt.

Regarding that archer thing, I tried it a couple time and I can't say I'm sold on it. If it works for you, though go for it. Now the one block of wall technique? That sounds a little out there.

As far as Joe's response, I can see where you are coming from. If I can spare the management time, I will put 2-3 villies on the close carcass, especially if the gaz are my first food source (I need that food comin' in fast to keep villie production up). However in general if it is a hunting operation I can't keep an eye on (like my 2nd or 3rd food gathering operation OR if I am working on a Tool Rush), I still prefer to only have 5-6 villies on the hunt rather than 10-12. But I would be happy to continue debating that with you

Also Thinker42, did your villies go from carcass to carcass or did they stand around? Also, how often did they bump into one another? I'd also be curious to know the math. The only figure I've heard is from Out4Blood saying that it is about 25% more efficent to use 2,3 villies vs. 1 (I suppose I could just go to Mr. Fixit's site huh?)


Finally, I don't know if it is my latest fad or not, but I have been going buck wild with the hunting thing. I now look at a pack of gaz as being just about as good as a berry patch. So I encourage all to give it a try.

Thinker42
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 04:47 PM ET (US)     8 / 26       
blue_myriddn,
In my test if I got the dear killed together in a small area the hunters would move from one carcass to another but if one was some distance away I would have to move the hunters. I think the "bump factor" is why 3 per is better than 4 or more - they just can't all get around 1 carcass. Also you get some of those disco-dancer vills.
I should have also said that I was using Persia and that on average, with 3 per I could get 630 food from 6 dear. With 1 per it was more like 580 food - not a big difference but...

[This message has been edited by Thinker42 (edited 08-24-99).]

Hemlock
Clubman
(id: S_Hemlock)
posted 08-24-99 07:09 PM ET (US)     9 / 26       
In my experience, hunting gazelles is good only when:

1 - You're playing at 1.0 AND
2 - The game isn't lagging

If either of these conditions are not met, my villies scatter the gazelles too much to make it worthwhile. Neilkaz suggested clicking on the second gazelle before they kill the first one as a way to combat lag, but I haven't tried it yet.

I rarely if ever pit elephants. Since you have to hunt eles with 6 villies, it takes too long to get good food coming in early in the game, and later in the game I have other sources of food. That, combined with the total amount of food from eles vs. other sources means I'll take sf, berries, and gazelles over eles any day.

------------------
No other success can compensate for failure in the home.

blue_myriddn
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 07:25 PM ET (US)     10 / 26       
Neilaz's suggestion of clicking on the second deer before they kill the first deer works VERY well, thanks Neilkaz.

I can still hunt @1.5 with decent success, but it's true that it is generally less effective. I haven't had problems with lag though. Actually it some times gives me a better shot to click on the gaz.

And Thinker 580F to 630F is a pretty big diff to me (ie. one villie), but I would be curious to know how that works out for non-Persian civs. I actually played a reveal game recently were two players on the other team were Persian and they rocked us big time with early strikes. That was a real fast defeat game. Afterwords I was talking to the players and they claimed that Persia is actually faster than Shang on a reveal map because the hunting will make that much of a difference. I don't know if that is totally true, but when you do get stuck playing a reveal game (YUCKK! reveal), Persia might not be a bad choice if you got your hunting spear sharpened.

Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 08-25-99 03:00 AM ET (US)     11 / 26       
hi ya The hunting in AoE is not used as much as it should be. Once the gazelle get scattered it's not so fast, plus I really love the hunting and do it before berries

I stopped with the bowman on deer..haha it was hhmmm fun but slow btw eles get so mad if a tower shoots them

I thought the way hunting was done with vill groups(3-4) was to "click ahead" with speeds 1.5 and 2.0...or the deer jump away..

1.0 speed ,click on a deer and wait till the arrows are in the air then get the next one.

'who took the jump out of the deer in AoK?...they seem to jump less'

Another mistake, ah hunting/food thing is to always have vills eat lions first because the lions/gators decay fast...
You players sure are mighty hunters thanks for sharing

p.s edit cause i forgot...persia, they get to tool so fast!!

[This message has been edited by Tenaciti (edited 08-25-99).]

Flawless Angel
Banned
posted 06-16-00 04:54 AM ET (US)     12 / 26       
Heheh, AOK just came out? Nah...

------------------
-- Vladislav --
------------------

TLHP
Clubman
posted 06-10-19 03:02 AM ET (US)     13 / 26       
- Sometime villager dont do damage with the first spear, why?
- Is gazelle king available in RoR map?

What is the math in hunting elephant?
- Elephant will chase villager when attacked, but not forever. When elephant stop chasing villager and get back to premier position?
ephestion
Clubman
posted 06-10-19 03:22 AM ET (US)     14 / 26       
How do you get bows in stone age? In tool age if I see gazelles i will normally start killing them all then place a pit nearby and then spread out 2 vils per carcass. Some players put all on one depending how many you have.


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
Epd999
Scout
posted 06-10-19 05:20 AM ET (US)     15 / 26       
Hunters have a 20% chance of missing regardless of whether it looks like it hits in versions RoR 1.0a and prior. This was patched out in DE.

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 06-10-2019 @ 05:21 AM).]

Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 06-10-19 07:42 AM ET (US)     16 / 26       
ephestion, you asked "How do you get bows in stone age?" You can't. Back in 1999, Tenaciti must have got confused in his post between AoE and AoK, where villagers hunt with bows from the Dark Age onwards. Funny how a post can still cause confusion 20 years later

My new double album, "Song Machine Vol. 1 and 2" with 24 of my songs is online now on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon and most other online services. Check it out, it's published under my name.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-10-19 02:11 PM ET (US)     17 / 26       
Hunters have a 20% chance of missing regardless of whether it looks like it hits in versions RoR 1.0a and prior. This was patched out in DE.
It's kind of funny how the game has this entire accuracy attribute programmed into it but only ever uses is for this one thing so that you can be annoyed when you lose a villager to a lion.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
TLHP
Clubman
posted 06-10-19 11:10 PM ET (US)     18 / 26       
Any source about this statement?

---> Hunters have a 20% chance of missing
Epd999
Scout
posted 06-10-19 11:20 PM ET (US)     19 / 26       
If you download Advanced Genie Editor, and use it to open the empires.dat file located in Microsoft Games/Age of Empires/data, you can use it to see all units and their attributes in the game.

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 06-10-2019 @ 11:23 PM).]

TLHP
Clubman
posted 06-11-19 01:58 AM ET (US)     20 / 26       
Yes, found it with AGE, nice catch. Thanks Epd999.

Back to hunting elephant, if anyone know, please share ^^
Basse
Clubman
posted 06-11-19 06:23 AM ET (US)     21 / 26       
IIRC elephants will chase villagers as long as they are within LOS. Once they lose LOS of the villager they will return to their original spot.
ephestion
Clubman
posted 06-12-19 01:34 AM ET (US)     22 / 26       
That is correct. Hunting elephants can be tricky because if you get out of their LOS they stop and then retreat back to where they started from. This video at 1:39 shows a double elephant hunt that goes slightly wrong. Greedy attempt to get two elephants at the same time.

https://youtu.be/_ev223cDzmo


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
Epd999
Scout
posted 06-15-19 06:47 AM ET (US)     23 / 26       
I saw a game in AoE2 were a player stayed in LOS of wolves when laming the boar while the boar was clearly not in LOS of the scout. I decided to test this in AoE as well and it is indeed the same case. If you lure an elephant and still stay in LOS of any gaia unit (including Cliffs and Birds) the elephant will continue to follow the unit.

I wouldn't use a bowman to hunt elephants, generally by that time you don't need elephants as much.

Elephant luring done right: https://youtu.be/AcYPo5707K8?t=5m55s

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?

[This message has been edited by Epd999 (edited 06-15-2019 @ 06:50 AM).]

ephestion
Clubman
posted 06-16-19 08:25 PM ET (US)     24 / 26       
Do you have one of hunting gazelles?


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
Epd999
Scout
posted 07-06-19 00:22 AM ET (US)     25 / 26       
This one is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DN1DCehAU

Lost Empires Mod
Maybe it's only a fool who'll perilously journey out to what might not be there. But if you want to solve problems, you don't just solve the ones that are there, you find more and make more and go after the impossible ones.
The neanderthals never ventured into the unknown and they went extinct, so who are the fools?
ephestion
Clubman
posted 07-06-19 02:22 AM ET (US)     26 / 26       
lol. Very good Epd999


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde
"I don't think I'm smarter than you because you believe in God. I think I'm smarter than you because you're absolutely nuts. -Stormraider responding to me."
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