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Topic Subject: What would you like to see in AoE: DE?
posted 11-24-17 08:52 AM ET (US)   
Since it has been announced that Age of Empires: Definitive Edition will be under development for a couple of months more, there is of course still room for things to improve or change. This can be balance changes, fixes or new features. Post your thoughts and suggestions here, so we can let team Forgotten know what you would like to see changed or added!

I'll start with some suggestions, which are mainly scenario editor related:

- Add a few more embellishment objects in the editor, like small vases, columns/obelisk, shrines, etc.

- Add a gaia shadow tile object in the editor objects list.

- Deep water underlying terrain should be darker blue, I think it looks too shallow.

- Random main menu backgrounds. Like an Egyptian, Roman, Greek, Babylonian and Shang theme. Keeps things fresh.

- Snow terrain. Please, please add this.

- A female hero unit. With female appearance.

- Some sort of simple day/night system using a simple color overlay with alpha transparancy on the playfield area. You could even tie it in based on the system clock. Also an option to turn it on or off.

- Consider building in a (basic) trigger system before launching (not making it available for public...), so whenever you decide to release a possible expansion pack in the future it would be already there and can be optimized and properly beta tested.

- Add a map copy function.

- Allow custom map size generation so you can instantly generate the exact map size you want. Just so you know, Chab's tool RockNror adds both an entirely new trigger system and a map copy function as well as custom map size generation for the original game, updated AI, different options for trading, talk to the guy - aoemodder attt aol dotttttttt com.

- In-game AI, PER and CTY editors. Since they use just simple text files, integrating these shouldn't be too difficult?

- Outline system for units, with an option to turn it off.

- Play original music during classic mode. (Both (optional) midi and cd tracks).

- Option to disable the intro videos.

- Have unique civ-specific Wonders.

Let us know what you would like to see changed or added!
posted 11-24-17 09:57 AM ET (US)     1 / 21  
I agree with all of your suggestions, here's one more:

-Be able to change Gaia civilization tileset and starting age in Scenario Editor, instead of always using asian tileset and being stuck on Stone Age
posted 11-24-17 11:43 AM ET (US)     2 / 21  
Built-in enhanced editor like aok hd?

Member of Tsunami Studios
Scenario T.C.: “Yes, the traitors can’t be terminated.”
Richard Ames: “Scenario_t_c should take care of them in a succinct but humorous fashion.”
Don Jorge de Leon: “Ave Trisolo! Vive Trisolo!”

[This message has been edited by Trisolo (edited 11-28-2017 @ 04:13 AM).]

posted 11-24-17 02:45 PM ET (US)     3 / 21  
I would say triggers as a first thing.
Farm queue (I don't think it is there) and gates would also be nice, but I don't consider them the priority.
Formations would be nice. Overall however I will be happy if the AI and pathfinding are good. There is always potential support through DLCs after release, if the game sells well enough.
posted 11-25-17 04:30 AM ET (US)     4 / 21  
Overall however I will be happy if the AI and pathfinding are good.
I wouldn't mind if they end up using AOE2's pathfinding. Units being stuck in the map is not acceptable nowadays, I understand that back in 1997 PCs didn't have enough computing power to handle complex AI.

Another suggestion:
- Be able to change population limit in random map and deathmatch. In scenario editor you should also be able to customize population limit.
posted 11-25-17 08:05 AM ET (US)     5 / 21  

Member of Tsunami Studios
Scenario T.C.: “Yes, the traitors can’t be terminated.”
Richard Ames: “Scenario_t_c should take care of them in a succinct but humorous fashion.”
Don Jorge de Leon: “Ave Trisolo! Vive Trisolo!”

[This message has been edited by Trisolo (edited 11-28-2017 @ 03:45 AM).]

posted 11-26-17 07:41 AM ET (US)     6 / 21  
To be honest I am totally ignorant on what could be achieved or not in the AoE engine.

But I see that many (many!) fans want the DE to become little more than a re-skinned AoK... It is okay, it is their preference and let's be honest AoK has better gameplay, objectively speaking.

But I personally was never a huge fan of AoK two main (and lots of minor) reasons: 1- the historical period and 2- how people mocked AoE looks and gameplay based on AoK. I did like AoK, of course, but AoE, even with its flaws, always stood as my fave, by far.

The problem I see is that as far as I know (I could be wrong), the game Engine is being left almost untouched in the DE. Although the civs are being re-balanced (something indeed was necessary), and the graphics improved by orders of magnitude (great job to the fellas of FE), I think many of the suggestions for the DE are based on stuff that can be achieved in AoK's engine, but I have no idea if the engine of AoE could handle them, or how much work would demand to revamp the engine.

This is NOT what I want (hell no!) but I think it would be easier to re skin AoK with AoE civilizations, than add AoK features to AoE's engine.

Just my opinion. Please, feel free to correct me is any of my assumptions is mistaken.

As for the different wonders, getting them in game should be easy, I mean Jan dc works for FE and look what he did in the original verion,6330,,10 it is quite obvious why he works with them now.

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 11-26-2017 @ 07:50 AM).]

posted 11-26-17 01:14 PM ET (US)     7 / 21  
A nice balance on improving on things while retaining the good old original feel is what I assume most of us want. Let's face it, AoK is technically superior with quite a few quality of life improvements. AoE could and should certainly "borrow" a few features, but not all of them. Personally I don't care much about gates or formations. Updated AI should be one of the highest priorities.

BTW trisolo, you are not suppose to discuss what is or isn't in the beta, that goes against the NDA (and spoils the surprise for everyone else not in the beta). It's difficult to maintain silence, I know
posted 11-27-17 06:07 AM ET (US)     8 / 21  
To be honest I have been wondering this since the annoucement...why the heck are the devs even using AoE 1 engine?
You can achieve everything that was achieved with Genie 1 engine using the Genie 2 (AoK engine). Maybe it is for the sake of mod/custom maps compatibility, but even so I do not think it is worth it: just think on how much the devs are struggling with pathfinding and AI.
All this time (and hence money) could imho have been invested in producing new content for the game instead.

I really love AoE 1 and I don't think it needs to be like AoE 2 to be good, but ignoring almost all the improvements made after AoE 1 (we are talking about 20 years ago!) does not seem like a very wise choice to me.

That aside, I am not saying that the devs are doing a bad job: you can really feel that they are giving their best to make this game as good as possible...the graphics and music are already insanely good, for example
It is just that I think they are missing a good opportunity to attract new players to AoE by instead satisfying the selfish requests of the people whose judgement is too clouded by the nostalgia for the original to accept any kind of improvement over the basic game.
posted 11-28-17 04:12 AM ET (US)     9 / 21  
I think I have tried to refine my language as to not directly talk about what is in tha beta ... anyway I have deleted the comments in question.

Member of Tsunami Studios
Scenario T.C.: “Yes, the traitors can’t be terminated.”
Richard Ames: “Scenario_t_c should take care of them in a succinct but humorous fashion.”
Don Jorge de Leon: “Ave Trisolo! Vive Trisolo!”
posted 11-28-17 02:28 PM ET (US)     10 / 21  
-Unique graphics sets for civs, or least not a roman set for macedon. Also unique interfaces for civs

-Update editor units to reflect the civ chosen for that player. Currently you're stuck with the default one untill you actually start the game. Which makes designing more difficult and makes complex mods such as AoI basically unusable in the editor.

- Pathfinding that isn't minimally exceptional (George Carlin)

- Some properly working diplomatic and tribute options to make alliances truly a thing (granted that may be too much wishing for new features rather than a remaster, but still).

-Also, some extra options to change AI behavior in the per files

[This message has been edited by Thompsoncs (edited 11-28-2017 @ 02:41 PM).]

posted 11-29-17 09:28 PM ET (US)     11 / 21  
You need to be able to build a field fortification when necessary, like the Romans did. Therefore you should be able to build a small wall and wooden tower without using or having any stone. All you should use is wood. Thus the small wall option should remain even after you research up grades.

Your villagers need to be able to "mine" walls and towers for stone. This was done all the time in the real world. The old is torn down to provide materials for the new. Those fortunate to travel in Greece should be able to notice ancient Greek columns being used for door lintels in crusader castles. It is much easier to remove a cut stone from an old wall than to mine it and cut out and shape a new one.

Archers should be able to hunt.

Axmen should be able to cut wood.

Infantry should be able to build fortifications.

But then maybe the last two should be a Roman trait!

Maybe heroes should increase the attack advantage of all their troops within in visual range. This seems to have worked for Alexander, Caesar and some of the Egyptian Pharroh's.

Maybe it should take 4 infantry or villagers to operate a catapult. But then I tend to hate facing massed catapults.
posted 11-30-17 12:42 PM ET (US)     12 / 21  
- Better pathfiding, the most important
- Non blocking farms
- Better AI
- Gates
- Buy/sell resoucers in the market, like AoE2
- Resources could last longer, especially stone and gold
- Add trade caravans and make them and trade ships work as in AoE2, not consuming resources
- Spy tech similar to AoE2
- Formations and stances
- I have no problem with the graphics as they are, I like the bright atmosphere
- Better map scripting
- New campaigns/scenarios as good as "Battle of Tunes", my favorite
- Executable under windows 7
posted 12-05-17 06:16 AM ET (US)     13 / 21  
The gates must be add and the fee that the merchant ship have to trade for gold must be remove
posted 12-09-17 09:17 AM ET (US)     14 / 21  
Most of the things people want are aoe 2 features :-)
posted 12-09-17 09:42 AM ET (US)     15 / 21  
Well, that's because aoe 2 is basically an improved aoe 1 with different setting!
posted 12-16-17 08:23 AM ET (US)     16 / 21  
I'll keep my wishlist simple: Please preserve, and don't "fix", the following lovable quirks of the original game. Keep this in:
- villagers should still be able to hunt birds
- destroying birds should still work as a victory condition
- blindlame priests should still be able to board transports/rafts and convert enemy units and buildings
- Hero Archimedes should still try to attack you, even with 0 attack (for scenarios that feature a CP's Archimedes following your units)
- keep computer allies as sensitive to your attacks as before: One accidental hit from your catapults should still make them change their diplomacy towards you to "enemy"
- I know you won't do this, but... consider bringing back the tame lion/tower bug. If you attack a tower with two lions, the tower kills only one and then does not respond.

I am asking for this because several of our old campaigns/scenarios rely on these features, and would become unplayable without them. Selfish. I know.

One thing to tweak:
- increase LOS of Hero Archimedes by 2 tiles (again for scenarios where he follows you)

That's it.

Of course I would love it if AoE had all the cool features of AoK (triggers, formations, snow etc). However such wishes are not realistic to implement at this late stage, in a close-to-finished game that must run stable on many different computers.

My new double album, "Song Machine Vol. 1 and 2" with 24 of my songs is online now on Spotify, iTunes, Amazon and most other online services. Check it out, it's published under my name.
posted 12-17-17 11:58 AM ET (US)     17 / 21  
Personally I would like it if the code for certain aok hardcoded behavior was there, just not used. That way modders could enable some of those things if they want to. I completely understand why they would not be used in the actual game, just think of the modding community.

I mean things like gatehouses, trading, garrissons, auto-attacks behavior of buildings, that sort of thing.
posted 12-23-17 07:43 AM ET (US)     18 / 21  
So many things annoyed me in AoE I, even in RoR expansion. So for me personally, these are the things I'd honestly want to see in the definitive edition:

- Better pathfinding: Honestly annoys me whenever I play AoE I and see military units stuck there just because a house and a village idiot is blocking the way even though there's a LARGE GAP on the other side. -_- And as if that isn't enough, units would even get stuck just because a single tree is in the way... The pathfinding in AoE I is just bollocks, even with Upatch.

- Triggers: A scenario editor that has triggers, as well as features like map copy, present in AoK would be nice. Also, rotation of units before placing them on the scenario editor map would be great.

- Grouped units kept in uniform speed: When assigned to areas in the map, grouped units move independently due to different speeds. Would be nice if this is fixed (e.g. Cavalry not overtaking infantry in the same group etc). I've also seen this in EE 1. It's not really too bothersome to hinder gameplay, but would still be nice fix though.

- Maybe improve the tendency for soldiers to auto-attack? Many times when playing AoE:RoR, melee units don't respond automatically when enemy units are attacking adjacent buildings etc, even when they're just right in front of them. And if this is implemented, then a trigger effect to adjust that range would be nice for scenarios too.

- A female hero unit: Or maybe just any female unit would be nice. Would be an extra useful feature in scenarios too.

- Include a shift-right click feature to queue tasks. So citizens can build buildings you want in order, and scouting of areas in the map can be facilitated, just like in AoM.

- Rally points: Though it's not at all bothersome to me, including rally points as in AoK would be nice but I'm pretty fine even if this doesn't get implemented.

- Enable navigation of the map, selecting of units and tasking them, even in pause mode: This was the most annoying feature I've experienced in AoE I, though I suppose this was a mid 1990's quirk. In AoE, you can't do anything in pause mode except select a group of the same units in the screen. I've even seen something like this in Caesar III. I hope this annoying pause mode feature gets removed tbh.

- Facilitated placement of farms: it is really annoying when you can't re-build a farm on the same area just because the same farmer (or any other unit) is blocking the bloody place. Also, an option to re-plant farms would be nice too.

This is just off the top of my head, so I may have missed a few others. I also hated the sound the sentry tower makes when they were built, but it's not at all necessary to change that imo, since it's just pet peeve of mine whenever I play AoE I.
posted 12-23-17 01:55 PM ET (US)     19 / 21  
Agree with all but one of the wonderful suggestions, Mazeppa. Are you reading along, team Forgotten?

I really don't mind not being able to move the map while in paused state.
posted 12-23-17 01:58 PM ET (US)     20 / 21  
One other thing, much like Ingo's compatibility suggestions, please keep the invisible tree unit invisible in custom scenario's/campaigns. It has many great uses. In RM or DM it's fine if the tree is using a tree graphic.
posted 12-25-17 12:37 PM ET (US)     21 / 21  
I am curious to see what will be the definitive changes implemented by FE in the final game and I hope they are still adamant agaisnt a re-skinned AoK (that is something many people want).
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