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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Modding » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
KO759
Clubman
posted 06-04-14 03:44 PM ET (US)     726 / 1964       
Thanks.
It worked when i use 1024x768 then restart in 1680x1050.
Muwatalli
Clubman
posted 06-05-14 06:59 PM ET (US)     727 / 1964       
Can AI units having a spasm when surrounded, and when 2 or more priests try to convert them be fixed? Or is that hardcoded?
ScarXL
Clubman
posted 06-06-14 10:41 AM ET (US)     728 / 1964       
Can you make the villagers automatically gather resources after building a storage pit/granary? For example If I build a storage pit near a wood forest, the villagers will automatically gather from it when the SP is done.

Can you do this or is this hardcoded too?

UPATCH HD 1.1 FINAL Release 4 --> http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,6327,,10
UPatch made by aoe_scout.
chab
Clubman
posted 06-06-14 03:30 PM ET (US)     729 / 1964       
For the villagers, automatically gathering resources after a construction is done is not implemented, that's all.
Adding it seems more that difficult, it would be an entire feature to add, not just a workaround to a problem.

About AI units that do not defend when attacked by several units, it's complicated also.
Units defend themselves because they are "triggered" when attacked. Several sources of such attacks make them hesitate. Those "triggers" are very frequent (clearly <1 second between each), so the unit's successive decisions are in contradiction, and it can't attack.

If we even try to change that, the impacts on the gameplay / AI can be disastrous.
Right now I have no idea how this behaviour could be fixed. And the calculations for units decision must be quite complex and hard to understand.
This is how the game is made, so there are few chances anyone can find a solution. But who knows, people already managed to do crazy things...
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-07-14 08:06 AM ET (US)     730 / 1964       
@ScarX: Such advanced things are not possible. Even AOE2 doesn't have this, only AOE2:The Conquerors and later.

@Muwatalli: Chab's explanation is the most accurate you can get, he is the expert on this code, I have no knowledge on the subject. There are too many similar problems, typical of such an old game. The right solution is only one - an entirely reworked game, made by MS or someone else with source code.
Muwatalli
Clubman
posted 06-07-14 12:46 PM ET (US)     731 / 1964       
I'm not 100% certain, but if my memory serves me, that didn't happen when playing vanilla AoE1 on Windows 98 and Windows XP back in the day. Even when trying to convert, lets say enemy chariot, with several priests, it would attack and kill them one by one. Without twitching at all. That came later, with RoR or Gold Edition.
Another example of similar issue is, When moving units, they will often get stuck around corners and bump into eachother a lot. (Probably because they all attempt to use same path, without considering other units.) Now this is something i'm absolutely certain wasn't the case in vanilla. The units moved so smoothly there. There was no path finding setting in vanilla. So something was changed.

@chab: Maybe if you, or someone else who understands this code, would compare vanilla AoE1 and RoR/Gold Edition to see what's different there.

[This message has been edited by Muwatalli (edited 06-07-2014 @ 01:05 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 10:48 AM ET (US)     732 / 1964       
These things are quite hard without source code. I can't really ask someone to do this, because ai fixes are low priority. The ai in the game is for the trash as a whole and nothing can fix that. There are important problems like game speed bug and campaign save bug, which I actually need help for. Check the list of bugs that were not fixed.
Highwing
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 01:08 PM ET (US)     733 / 1964       
I have a few more suggestions:

Shouldn't Greeks get metallurgy? Most of their focus is on their centurions and yet they're not even the strongest in the game.

Also, transports. These are just a big pet peeve of mine. They seem way too expensive... more than a trireme and more wood than what you pay for a catapult trireme. Plus they can only carry such a small amount of units, AND they count toward your pop. limit. It's really annoying to have to delete units just to build a transport, and a lot of times you need more than one. I guess one strategy is to move only villagers to an enemy island and train your military units there, but this is really hard to do when the enemy is all over the island. Seems like transports should either be cheaper, not affect pop. limit, OR be able to carry more units (maybe 8 and 15 or something). But maybe no one else shares this annoyance.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 01:47 PM ET (US)     734 / 1964       
Actually increasing transport capacity is one of the things I've been considering for a while. I think they should count as population (every unit does) and the higher price is to make them harder to acquire (transportation of armies over water was difficult in Ancient times). There is another problem - a whole 7 civilizations don't have Heavy Transport. I'm not sure hiw to solve this, without any big changes. An increase to 6/12 is possible.

Greeks don't really need Metallurgy that much, because they are relatively good in Iron Age (weak in Bronze). Also they now have cheaper Academy units, in addition to faster - that's 2 bonuses for these units. Armor upgrades are more important anyway.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-08-2014 @ 01:49 PM).]

Highwing
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 02:51 PM ET (US)     735 / 1964       
I guess you're right, it'd be a little ridiculous if they didn't count toward your population. If the capacity was increased, I think that would make them a little less inconvenient (but like you said, I guess this was supposed to be historically accurate to some degree). Also, like other units in the game, I think the lack of Heavy Transport for some civs was an attempt at balancing the civs, right? Maybe some historical accuracy too. Since Hittites have almost everything available on land, it seems reasonable to make it harder for them to transport units (one way of making them less overpowered). But it doesn't seem quite as fair for civs like Choson and Babylonian since they aren't as powerful as Hittite.

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 06-08-2014 @ 02:53 PM).]

Usac
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 05:37 PM ET (US)     736 / 1964       
Metallurgy would do little for Centurions with less than a 10% attack boost... but it'd potentially enable Cataphracts... not that the two have to go hand in hand.
Highwing
Clubman
posted 06-08-14 06:10 PM ET (US)     737 / 1964       
True. Without the Upatch, though, things like that do seem to always go hand in hand. Any civ that can get heavy cav and metallurgy can get cataphract, any civ that can get guard tower and ballistics can get ballista tower, etc. But it's more flexible in the Upatch. For example, Hittite can get ballistics and guard tower, but no ballista tower. In any case, I don't think Greek should get cataphract. Cavalry in general might even be a stretch for them, haha.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 04:00 AM ET (US)     738 / 1964       
Don't be mistaken, although it is common, there was never such rule for technologies, that a civ has to have the upgrade associated with a tech. Many examples exist in the original game (the most obvious is Wheel - not all civs with Wheel have Chariots).

Lack of Heavy Transports is more for historical accuracy (for civs with weaker navies). I'm not sure how fair it is in the game though.
Highwing
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 04:28 AM ET (US)     739 / 1964       
Wasn't thinking about Wheel. But what other examples are there? I guess I was only thinking about super units. Doesn't seem like there's that many examples either way... haha not trying to argue, just curious.

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 06-09-2014 @ 04:31 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 05:23 AM ET (US)     740 / 1964       
There is no connection in the data, that's for sure. And from historical point of view, it would be unrealistic. Greeks shouldn't have Cataphracts.

I would be more interested to know what do you think about some of the unit changes, like siege weapons, compared to the original game. What's was your experience so far?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-09-2014 @ 07:05 AM).]

Muwatalli
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 11:54 AM ET (US)     741 / 1964       
@aoe_scout: I didn't mean AI units moving around. I meant when human player moves units around, especially in large groups. Most often it happens when making a turn around woods. One unit will stop for some reason, (probably bumping into the unit ahead) then all others behind will get stuck. suddenly you have part of your army way ahead, and the rest stuck at that spot. Overall its messy, how units get into the way of eachother.
Like i said, i'm certain that wasn't the case, when playing vanilla all those years ago. Units moved as smoothly as they do in AoE2. I have no clue whether this is RoR, Gold Edition, or even Windows 7 issue. I consider this a bug, not AI issue. Would love to help with all the bugs, but i'm really not good with this technical stuff.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 12:27 PM ET (US)     742 / 1964       
This is a path finding issue, which falls into the same category. Path finding settings were added in vanilla AOE 1.0b and ROR 1.0 - if you set them to Default (select Settings in pre-game screen), the game should work like in AOE 1.0. Try it and tell me if this helps (I always have it on high). It's not related to Windows version or Gold Edition (which is the same as normal edition).
Highwing
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 02:05 PM ET (US)     743 / 1964       
The siege weapons certainly seem like a step in the right direction. And I think you said this before, that unbalances will always remain and you really can't change the game too much (it should still be AoE, after all, not AoE 2 or a new game altogether). Of all the changes, the minimum range of catapults seems to be the most prominent, and I really like this change. Catapults can hit WAY too close in the original game. And of course the decreased damage area seems good, though sometimes it's hard to notice the difference. One thing that's always bothered me is how accurate catapults are against units. It doesn't seem like they should be able to hit a cavalry coming toward them with 100% accuracy. Catapults should mainly be for destroying buildings... but maybe that's just me. I haven't played AoE 2 that much, but I don't remember their siege weapons being such big unit killers like they are in AoE 1.

I haven't used or played against ballistas/helepoli enough to really be able to comment on them.

But I also like the decrease in cost for the juggernaut upgrade. Why exactly did you decrease it so much? Haha I never thought the price was all that bad in the first place, mostly since it doesn't cost gold. The cost always seemed worth it to me. Just one of my favorite units, I guess. Not saying you should change it back, though. Was the decrease maybe because they're stuck on the water and thus only have access to about half the map (or even much less)?

[This message has been edited by Highwing (edited 06-09-2014 @ 02:10 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-09-14 02:44 PM ET (US)     744 / 1964       
Even by default the Juggernaught was too expensive (and rarely used in Multiplayer) - high gold cost and too many required upgrades (Trireme, Catapult Trireme, Engineering, Juggernaught). It's much faster and more effective to mass Triremes as navy. The decrease was also because this unit now has less damage area and doesn't kill trees.

Accuracy of Catapults is because of Ballistics, but they should miss fast units (unless in closer range).
kazink
Clubman
posted 06-10-14 10:58 AM ET (US)     745 / 1964       
Hi, I am the maker of the RoR Pop Limit Changer. This patch looks incredibly wonderful. However I don't have time to play nowadays, but I am willing to make my tool compatible with this patch. What you (aoe_scout) wrote about beta testing and third party programs is highly reasonable, so I will wait with modifications until you release the final version (though as far as I understand the compatibility issue, my program should work with all versions of the UPatch after adjusting to the beta, unless you introduce more exe changes).

Good luck
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-10-14 12:13 PM ET (US)     746 / 1964       
Thanks for understanding.

I know how to change it, it's a simple patch, but the problem is that computer players will continue to train only 50 units (ai build plans work this way) and all scenarios and campaigns will become meaningless (with 200 pop limit you will be able to train 4 times more units than intended).

There is still a possibility that I may reconsider changing it to 100 by default. This also means that all ai build plans will have to be remade for 100 pop limit (it's a lot of work I can't be bothered with, but another user offered to help in such case). My biggest problem is that even all this work will not make the ai smarter or faster (it may even become slower). Ai programming in the game is too primitive and buggy and nothing short of remaking half the game would help. The game was made in 1997 after all.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-10-2014 @ 12:30 PM).]

PhatFish
Mr. Beta
posted 06-10-14 12:13 PM ET (US)     747 / 1964       
Im sure many people would appreciate a pop changer thats compatible with upatch
ScarXL
Clubman
posted 06-10-14 01:06 PM ET (US)     748 / 1964       
Who wouldn't appreciate one? The AI pop limit is only 50, so this is a great tool to change that, as I don't like that the AI has disadvantages when playing SP. Me 200 pop limit and the AI 50? That is unfair.

Thank you kazink for making this mod and thank you aoe_scout for making the patch.

UPATCH HD 1.1 FINAL Release 4 --> http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,6327,,10
UPatch made by aoe_scout.

[This message has been edited by ScarXL (edited 06-10-2014 @ 01:07 PM).]

kazink
Clubman
posted 06-10-14 03:10 PM ET (US)     749 / 1964       
I am aware of the AI limitations (I should have put a warning into the program). I have made this tool mostly for people like me, who like to play SP against 3-4 opponents, so the chances are more or less equal.

Now thinking about that... can the AI values be scaled too along with the population limit? I don't mean the manual scaling, but automatic by my tool. I have just looked into an AI file, and it's plain text, so that shouldn't be hard. I would only need some explanations on the numbers and which ones exactly the program should change. No one would have to change over hundred files by hand.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-10-14 03:56 PM ET (US)     750 / 1964       
No, it's not that simple. The strategies have to be adapted for the higher population limit (just like human strategies). Also the ai plans (files) work in a specific way, just adding numbers to the units will make the ai very slow (that's why units numbers are usually no higher than 2). Moreover, the default strategies are not very good, they could be improved, which will also decrease the negative effect of the increased pop limit. The only proper way to do this, would be with new ai files, compatible with UPatch.

The thing is, ai will never have any real strategic thought (for example they will continue creating Cavalry even when they face armies of Camels). And except for Hardest (where ai starts with huge resources), they will still be much slower than human player. Even now (without any pop limit advantage) you can quite easily beat 4-5 ai opponents on Hard (all allied), just by crippling them with early attacks. Often one of the players is stuck in Tool Age anyway.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-10-2014 @ 04:58 PM).]

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