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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Modding » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Srlancelot39
Clubman
posted 09-28-13 04:33 AM ET (US)     226 / 1964       
I have read this entire thread beginning to end and all I can say is this is incredible work you are doing, aoe_scout! It's too bad that MS/ES no longer maintain AoE, but fortunately there are people like you who keep it not only alive, but also progressing! Many thanks and appreciation to you and all of those who are providing assistance!

Keep it up, it IS worth it!

Born in 92, played since 98...
AoE is beyond gold.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kay98CH.png[/img]
(I also play Minecraft!)
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 09-29-13 12:46 PM ET (US)     227 / 1964       
Thanks a lot for the support, Srlancelot39!

More of the incoming changes:
- New Greek bonus: Greek Hoplites created 15% faster (in addition to 30% faster movement).
- Greek "Wall upgrades free" bonus removed. Slinger bonus remains.
- Priest range reverted to default (but Astrology remains at 20%); +5 seconds creation time.
- Assyrian and Yamato villager speed bonus to 15% - it's 18% by default (incorrectly described as 30% in documentation), it was made 20% in 1.0.5.
- Minoan Camel Rider removed (unrealistic).
- Hero Archimedes reverted to default.
- Removed Chariots and S.Chariots for Persia (this was only experimental change).
- Fishing ship\boat work rate restored to default.

Please share you thoughts about all these changes.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 09-29-2013 @ 03:38 PM).]

Srlancelot39
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 00:14 AM ET (US)     228 / 1964       
I won't be of much help for balancing since I'm just not sufficiently experienced, but I should be able to give some input for realism and logistics (not the in-game research, haha) and I am in FULL support of aiming this patch in that direction (of course balancing is very necessary, but why not be as realistic as possible). I have some knowledge of ancient history but not a ton, so I can draw some conclusions as to what would make sense and what wouldn't.

Tonight I installed the patch (downloaded it a day ago or so) and tested it out (and was soon reminded that resolution updates aren't till 1.1 >.< lol). This is the part where I'm not good at explaining in sentences, so I'll describe what I noticed in point form, haha:

[Game: RM, Civ: Hittite, Players: 2, Hardest, Continental, Resources: Default, Reveal Map: No, Pathfinding: High, Starting Age: Default, Full Tech Tree: No]

-Love the increased velocity of catapult projectiles!*
-Speed of units seems logical**
-Reduced stone/gold generation? (suspected)
-More shore fish? (suspected)

That's all that comes to mind at the moment :P

*Do you think it could be increased further? Maybe even to have a vertical velocity of 9.8m/s^2? And what game speed would true speeds be used in? 'Normal' has always seemed too slow, 'fast' seems about right, 'very fast' is what I always play in but is quite obviously too fast for most things with the exception of projectiles which still (even after the patch) seem a bit slow-moving. Ideally, 'Normal' should be the baseline with realistic speeds. As a result, Normal might become the new 'Fast' or 'Very Fast' but only to a degree since (personally) I don't feel that the speeds in the game are equally (un)realistic...(i.e. birds seem to fly at a realistic speed in Very Fast, while fish jump too quickly in that speed).

**I noticed that scouts travel at same speed as scythe chariots, not sure about horse archers. In my opinion there are two options: Make all horses same speed OR make their speed proportional to how much they are carrying (chariots slower than cavalry/horse archers slower than scouts).

And that concludes my post! :D (I really hope I made sense to some degree lol)

Born in 92, played since 98...
AoE is beyond gold.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kay98CH.png[/img]
(I also play Minecraft!)

[This message has been edited by Srlancelot39 (edited 09-30-2013 @ 00:29 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 01:31 AM ET (US)     229 / 1964       
Thanks for the feedback. Feel free to share any other ideas.

About realism: this game is very far from such. I would really love to make the game more historically accurate (I'm a History student after all) or realistic, but that would make it too different and break the balance (not a goal for unofficial patch anyway). I try to be as close to the original as possible. I've made quite a lot of changes only because (unlike AOE2) there are too many extreme and ridiculous things in AOE1, not to mention a ton of bugs and imbalances.

About the Random Maps: they can't really be improved much further. The reason for that is because their code is very primitive (compared to AOE2) and half of it is hardcoded. This leads to very strange results if I try to change something bigger (for example: I increase forest density on a map, but in many of the generated maps I get MUCH less forest than default - no logical reason). I stick to minor changes to avoid any possible bugs. Also, to make any accurate conclusion about a RM, you would need at least 20 generated maps (that's why I test it in Scenario Editor).

About speed: You are right, Normal is a little too slow, Fast is the best (most realistic) speed. I don't intend to change that as it's good to have a slower speed. The projectiles are still quite slow to be realistic, but that's how the game works (same in AOE2). I agree with you about horse speed. Right now all horses are equally fast, only HA and HHA are faster. I'm already considering increasing the speed of Scout, all Cavalry and Camel by ~10%. This will also make them a little more useful for their price.
lazxl
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 01:51 AM ET (US)     230 / 1964       
Hello aoe_scout,

Awesome work! Is there a way to reach you about an installation problem with the patch? Unfortunately I don't see a way to send a personal message.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 01:54 AM ET (US)     231 / 1964       
This forum has no PM. You can post here, no problem. I follow this topic regularly. Tell me details about your Windows version (32 bit or 64 bit) and what exactly is the problem.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 09-30-2013 @ 02:09 AM).]

lazxl
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 02:42 AM ET (US)     232 / 1964       
I really don't want to post the following in your excellent thread, but here goes...: Antivir reports that the upatch executable attempts to install a trojan horse. TR\Spy.[some number] and puts the file in quarantine.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 03:54 AM ET (US)     233 / 1964       
The file is clean, of course, so this is very strange. VirusTotal reports 11/48 - all famous antivirus programs report it as clean, except BitDefender, F-Secure and Comodo.

To avoid this: stop your antivirus program - right-click on the icon in system tray (lower right corner) and look for "Disable protection" or something like that. Download UPatch, open the setup program and install. Add the file "UPatch Setup.exe" from game directory to exceptions. Start your antivirus again.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! If you have any other problems, don't hesitate to ask for help, this thread is also for this.

EDIT: Solved! I already uploaded the fixed version (no internal changes).
It turned out the exe file which creates backup\restore of the original game files is improperly detected as possible malware (I rebuilt it). Now only few antivirus programs detect it and they are unpopular or with high rate of false positives (among them DrWeb and Trend Micro are the only popular names). If you happen to use one of them, follow the instructions above.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 10-03-2013 @ 06:23 AM).]

Srlancelot39
Clubman
posted 09-30-13 11:13 PM ET (US)     234 / 1964       
The laptops at my university used F-Secure...I think 80% of students removed it because of how slow it was lol. I usually use Microsoft Security Essentials (love it), but my current laptop came with Norton 360, a very big name in the industry as many know. It's labeling your patch as "Safe", so you can sleep in peace Good that you made those changes to make it less likely to be detected as unsafe though :P

Random Maps:
Yeah that's true, can't draw conclusions about minute generation changes from a single game. Does the Resources option list (Default, Medium, High) affect the generation of resources at all or does that only control how much the player(s) start with (I assume the latter)? Very odd that edits to that can result in reversed effects, although it's quite likely just another one of those bugs/messes in their code.

Speed:
Yes, good idea keeping a "Low" setting and having realistic as the middle as opposed to having "Real", "Fast", and "Faster" lol. As for the speed of horses, "getting your money's worth" is another way of viewing it indeed. My view was, "if you want more power, you're gonna have to trade some speed for it". Either view is logical though; getting what you paid for or making a compromise.

Another thing I noticed that I didn't add in my last post:
The AI seemed much more difficult than usual. I assume it was those bug fixes you made that didn't increase their intelligence, but simply removed some of the errors/difficulties they were encountering (from the bugs decreasing efficiency).....or maybe I just had a shitty start 3 times in a row xD

I'm gonna go off on a wild tangent for a moment to ask a stupid question:
Making changes to the game engine is COMPLETELY OUT (since we don't have access to the source code), right?

Born in 92, played since 98...
AoE is beyond gold.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kay98CH.png[/img]
(I also play Minecraft!)

[This message has been edited by Srlancelot39 (edited 09-30-2013 @ 11:27 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-01-13 03:29 AM ET (US)     235 / 1964       
Making changes to the game engine is COMPLETELY OUT (since we don't have access to the source code), right?
Yes, that's right. I can't add something that's not already possible in the data (with very few exceptions). You can ask anyway, it might be doable with data editing. But AOE2 features like Formations or Gates are not possible.

It is possible the ai was better because of my changes, but not in the start. The ai is just very inconsistent (and unfortunately I won't be able to do much about that). Also for "Hardest", computer players receive additional resources (they "cheat", so to speak). Still, this is the only difficulty that's comparable to human player, the rest are extremely slow.

Starting Resources don't affect resources on the map (as you have guessed). Random maps are also not very consistent. Edits like what I explained happen because the data code actually works together with internal code which I can't even see. The data code was also never meant to be editable.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 10-01-2013 @ 03:31 AM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 10-01-13 03:26 PM ET (US)     236 / 1964       
For the cavalry price, it is really a matter of fine tuning, and not anything I could give a direct response to without trying both possibilities. I think it might be better to stick to even numbers (5 isn't an even number, but you get my point) if there is no definite reason not to.

As for the rest of the changes, I'm probably just going to approve of them preliminary. With the changes to cavalry Minoa can do without camels, and I guess priests shouldn't be that much of a problem as they're slower than foot soldiers. +3 carry capacity for farmers seems like quite an irrelevant change, I presume it's mostly stylistic?

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
Srlancelot39
Clubman
posted 10-01-13 03:32 PM ET (US)     237 / 1964       
Yeah, wouldn't want to add gates and formations anyways. Just asked about source code because you had made a comment earlier about a change that would require source code editing. I suppose through trial and error, and some 'reverse engineering' you could figure out what is written in the source code that's causing weird outcomes when you apply certain changes...that's much easier said than done though, and even explaining it was a bit difficult xD

EDIT:
"+3 carry capacity for farmers seems like quite an irrelevant change, I presume it's mostly stylistic?"...gave me an idea. What if researching Wheel increased carrying capacity of villagers? I realize this idea may cause game balance issues, and is probably flawed in more ways than one, but I figure I might as well throw it out there :P

P.S. In your next post, update me on what is currently under review, if possible, so that I can be of better assistance to you

Born in 92, played since 98...
AoE is beyond gold.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kay98CH.png[/img]
(I also play Minecraft!)

[This message has been edited by Srlancelot39 (edited 10-01-2013 @ 04:13 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-01-13 04:31 PM ET (US)     238 / 1964       
Don't have hopes for any reverse engineering. I have no skills for anything even remotely similar and we don't have an expert who wants to work few years, so he can reveal something significant from the code (like UserPatch for AOE2). Chab and LucTieuPhung already achieved (through debugging) much more that I expected. We should be thankful we have that much for such an old game. Just saying.

@Srlancelot39: We already have many researches that increase carry capacity, so Wheel will have to stay the same (but otherwise a logical idea).
Everything I posted in the last few posts is under review (especially the bigger changes in bold).

@Dubstepfisk: About Domestication: it isn't completely useless bonus (Farms are sometimes 2-4 tiles away from dropsites), but it's also because other farm techs have additional bonuses.
I don't exactly get it why should we stick to even numbers (Priest, swordsmen, ships are not), or you just meant 72 is preferable as price?
What about faster Cavalry - more efficient for the price? My latest changes:
- Cavalry line cost is 75 Gold (Food 70 - unchanged)
- Cavalry line attack bonus vs infantry back to default 5, except Cataphract - still 6.
- Cavalry line, Scout and Camel 8% faster (this is quite visible change, especially when chasing Chariots!)
- Horse Archer 4.5% faster (= 6.5% faster than new Cavalry speed, was 10% faster than old); Heavy Horse Archer unchanged.
This is required change, HA must be a little more useful as he already suffers -1 range and -1 pierce armor. It's just to make sure he is slightly faster than Cavalry\Camels, the difference in speed is even less than before - so there is still reduction in efficiency.
- Palmyran Camels are now 15% faster; were 25% faster
Also required change. 8% faster by default + 25% of that is much faster than HHA! Now Palmyrian Camel is exactly the same speed as HHA (just like before).

These experimental changes might remain for 1.0.6, so they can be tested by everyone. Of course they could be removed for 1.1. What do you all think?
kaleena
Clubman
posted 10-02-13 08:10 AM ET (US)     239 / 1964       
IMO those changes are reasonable (too many things in AoE 1 are over the top) and I really really appreciate that you tweaked the mounted units speed.
And I also want to test the new Greeks ASAP fast moving & fast trained heavy infantry sounds quite good (backed by superior slingers)

[This message has been edited by kaleena (edited 10-02-2013 @ 08:12 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-02-13 08:28 AM ET (US)     240 / 1964       
Version 1.0.6 will ready very soon (in a week or so) and will have all these. So you will be able to test it.

Any other opinions or suggestions?
Srlancelot39
Clubman
posted 10-02-13 10:42 AM ET (US)     241 / 1964       
Agreed - reverse engineering is definitely not worth your time; incredibly time consuming, inefficient, requires a special type of skill, and after all that, you won't likely get clear/concise results that you can build from. We are indeed very fortunate to have people like Chab and LucTieuPhung providing their skills and knowledge to help bring this to life!

Wheel: Yeah it'd make sense logically, but as you said, there's already enough things increasing carrying capacity; wheel would just overdo it.

I like the changes you posted for ridden horses/camels; it makes sense to have them faster than chariots which are having to pull extra weight. Makes sense as well that HA is faster than cavalry and camels since archery armour/equipment tends to be more lightweight than close combat armour (plate armour and swords). I do realize I'm over-analyzing it, but it's good that it makes sense on such a fine level!

*Excited for 1.0.6!*

Born in 92, played since 98...
AoE is beyond gold.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Kay98CH.png[/img]
(I also play Minecraft!)

[This message has been edited by Srlancelot39 (edited 10-02-2013 @ 10:46 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-02-13 11:56 AM ET (US)     242 / 1964       
Another long planned changes, for which I found a very good way to implement:
- Choson bonus is now +25% hitpoints for Bronze Age swordsmen; +50% for Iron Age swordsmen. This means that Shord S. has 75 HP (+15 HP); B.S: 100 HP (+20 HP); Long S.: 150 HP (-10 HP), Legion: 240 HP (same as before). This way the bonus is more logical\consistent and finally affects Bronze age units. Roman Short and Broad S. are still better than Choson in 1vs1, but with more HP Choson are more resistant to archers.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 10-02-2013 @ 12:00 PM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 10-02-13 01:49 PM ET (US)     243 / 1964       
Yeah, my point was something like "stick to numbers ending with 5 or 0 as those are the ones used in the game by default", but that felt like too much typing, but now that I had to explain myself, so it didn't work out as I hoped. About the domestication bonus, I still can't imagine it being a >3% bonus to overall gather rate.

Cho swords bonus change looks good, should retain the Iron Age balance from the unmodded game to some degree, while giving them a needed Bronze Age boost.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
Berriesonhills
Banned
posted 10-07-13 04:23 AM ET (US)     244 / 1964       
I read through it and liked a lot of what I read for this patch. I just really wish we still had zone to play this game on and I'd try to get people to play this patch with me.. is there something other than gameranger this game is played on that I am unaware of?

One thing I seen some for (decreased range) but the chariot archers I just think are too dominant in RM, and if you got a class that doesn't get them you are at a disadvantage.


Also ror has tradeships so it would be possible to implement caravans. That's kind of a big change though. Worth a test. Basically do the same things the ships do to a land unit and guide it to tc and market. However it could help in age 3 to pump more gold units out rather than so chariot based.

[This message has been edited by Berriesonhills (edited 10-07-2013 @ 04:48 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-07-13 06:05 AM ET (US)     245 / 1964       
Also ror has tradeships so it would be possible to implement caravans. That's kind of a big change though.
Few mods already included land trade units, but they have some bugs and serious problems, which can't be avoided (classes are hardcoded). So unfortunately I can't include them. Also that would be a big change indeed.
lazxl
Clubman
posted 10-07-13 10:28 AM ET (US)     246 / 1964       
Thanks for solving the issue with the virus detection!

I really like almost all of the changes that you made in the UPatch 1.05. The list of bug fixes and I'd like to try out the overhauled siege units. It got me enthousiastic to reinstall AOE after many years.
I also like the planned solution for the Choson Swordsmen bonuses.

I haven't played AOE in such a long time, so some of the following may be incorrect, but maybe you get some valuable ideas anyway.
Here are some ideas / concerns that I'd like to test and discuss:

1 Cataphract trample damage. It seems illogical to me that Cavalry and Heavy Cavalry don't have trample damage, but a Cataphract does and it makes the Scythe Chariot less unique. Should the trample damage be removed (if not removed already), and the single-target damage of Cataphracts increased a bit?

2 Conversion range of priests. It is unrealistic to me that a priest is able to convert (melee) units that don't even have a LOS that large to see the priest. Could we consider that the priest's conversion range is further reduced, but the conversion effectiveness and/or movement speed is increased a bit?

3 Helepolis new damage. Should it be able to one-shot priests, especially if we'd reduce the priest's conversion range?

4 Trireme vs Catapult Trireme with increased hit points. Can the Trireme still destroy a Catapult Trireme in a 1 on 1 fight?

5 Farming speed including the 20% upgrade. How does the food production speed compare to hunting?

6 Range of Academy units. I think that they should be able to hit an incoming unit first because of the length of their spears. Should we give them a range of 2? No minimum range.

7 There is one civilization that has Catapult Triremes, but no Engineering, so it has less range than towers... I'm wondering if we should reduce the cost of the Catapult Trireme by f.i. 20% or give it more range.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 10-07-13 11:03 AM ET (US)     247 / 1964       
Thanks for the feedback. I will release version 1.0.6 in a few days, I hope you will find it even better.

1. Cataphract doesn't have trample damage since version 1.0.5 (only in v1.0). Exactly because it looks a little too strange, as you pointed out. I already improved the Cataphract a little more in 1.0.6.
2. Priest in 1.0.6 will be -10% conversion effectiveness (from Astrology) and +5 seconds creation time, range - default. I think that's enough, his price is quite high and some civilizations have no other defense against elephants. I know it's somewhat unrealistic for him to have such range, but I try to avoid some changes (people are not used to them).
3. It can do that right now. But range is unchanged.
4. Well, you can test for yourself. They are almost equal if they are 1vs1 and they don't move. The CT dies just before the last hit which would kill the Trireme. CT and Juggernaught are very strong vs buildings and when massed - vs everything.
5. Hunting is still faster (with ~15%).
6. I've tried that - it looks weird, as even now sometimes the units die from a small distance when hit (like kill from a distance, but it's not due to lag).
7. Macedonians will have to do with that. But I'm considering giving them Fire Galley for compensation. There are now only 3 civs that get both FG and CT.

If you have any other questions\suggestions - feel free to ask.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 10-07-2013 @ 11:23 AM).]

Berriesonhills
Banned
posted 10-07-13 05:30 PM ET (US)     248 / 1964       
Are you sure they were done 100% right?

As far as classes goes the tradeship might have its own class as a trade unit.

I added tradeships to thrones of time, however there was bugs during my first few versions until I sorted out what I was doing wrong.

You have to look at everything the dock does for a trade unit and everything the trade unit does to trade with the docks. If you just throw the parts from the ship onto a land unit I can see where there would be problems. You also have to apply what the dock does to the town centers. There may also be some small things that got missed. They also don't really need a class or could be considered whatever a villager is considered and that would work, making them economically categoried.

[This message has been edited by Berriesonhills (edited 10-07-2013 @ 05:32 PM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 10-07-13 06:07 PM ET (US)     249 / 1964       
You are not working in ror engine, so what you achieved outside is not that relevant to this patch.

It's actually not that hard to get land trade working. I did sometimes encounter the bug that the market would become undestroyable ( ruin picture plus dustcloud of collapsing building, but still clickable and cant build on that spot). This could be fixed by redoing the market lines again, but still returned sometimes. Its quite weird, but other than that it worked fine, including for trade workshop and dock.

It basically came down to using a land unit with trade class and dropsite market plus some changes in the command line in rord, while giving market trade resources (that's the only change to market).

[This message has been edited by Thompsoncs (edited 10-07-2013 @ 06:09 PM).]

Berriesonhills
Banned
posted 10-07-13 06:43 PM ET (US)     250 / 1964       
I'd still think the basic rules apply here, better yet pretty much know.

There has to be something done to the trade unit and buildings to make them function properly together. From which the dock and trade ship both show you what to do to make them work 100% correctly.

Sounds pretty relevant to me, the basic process of doing so, no matter what example was used to say I've done something similar before, and encountered some errors that you can work around if you do everything correctly.

[This message has been edited by Berriesonhills (edited 10-07-2013 @ 06:47 PM).]

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