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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Scenario Design and Modding » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-02-15 12:46 PM ET (US)     1226 / 1964       
Yes, the Greek ones are fast, but only ~16% faster than Legions (assuming Aristocracy and UPatch Beta2). Also Legions are much cheaper and faster to train, the Greek Centurions move faster only because that's their civ bonus. Greeks lack Metallurgy and don't have other strong Iron units, except for siege (which is slow and expensive). Compare that to Macedonian (better Centurions, fully upgraded A.Ele and HHA). So why should I cripple the Greeks more? Personally I don't see a good enough reason for such change.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-02-2015 @ 01:18 PM).]

ScarXL
Clubman
posted 02-03-15 10:17 AM ET (US)     1227 / 1964       
@aoe_scout
About the Greek Siege, they should not be removed as it would be unrealistic.

UPATCH HD 1.1 FINAL Release 4 --> http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,6327,,10
UPatch made by aoe_scout.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 02-06-15 02:22 PM ET (US)     1228 / 1964       
Just like Hittites could be overall the strongest civilization, Greeks could be the weakest.

Without doubt, the Greeks are the weakest RM civilization, and although they fare better in DM they are maybe mid tier there.

I think taking away the little special they got would make them close to useless.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-06-15 04:01 PM ET (US)     1229 / 1964       
I never considered anything like that, of course, check my comments above. I don't even want to reduce their Centurion speed bonus.

Do you think Juggernaught should be able to destroy trees like in the original game? In such case their upgrade price will be increased a little. Personally, I find that inappropriate, but I would like to hear more opinions.

Also, assuming CA are at 7 range and I keep the Minoan bonus to +2 CB range in Bronze Age, what would be better - to remove the relatively small Minoan Farm bonus (+60 Food) or to remove their Camel?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-06-2015 @ 04:27 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 02-06-15 04:47 PM ET (US)     1230 / 1964       
I agree for Juggernaught, they shouldn't kill the forest.
Neither do we (greenpeace sentence of the day)
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 02-06-15 06:24 PM ET (US)     1231 / 1964       
Minoans shouldn't farm in the first place unless the map lacks oceans. Their greatest strenght is on sea maps, removing the farming bonus primarily affects land map performance, where I would still regard them as inferior to civs like assy.

Remove camel, better for balance, better for realism.

About Greece, I think their DM game is strengthened in the UPatch, as the siege changes make centurions more viable in DM. Otherwise, I'd mostly regard them as a support civ, somebody you'd be happy to play as in a team DM if your ally has some elephants or other meat shields, but not so good to hold on their own.

Oh, and abuse of juggernauts in island DM was just annoying, I say no tree destruction.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

[This message has been edited by Dubstepfisk (edited 02-06-2015 @ 06:26 PM).]

Hersir_Steelhand
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 05:20 AM ET (US)     1232 / 1964       
Aoe_scout, i fixed the bug i kept having with the screen. Seems that the windows theme was really affecting the game.

About minoan, i suggest removing camels ("to be more realistic" like someone said before) + they can rely on their compies in bronze.

I think that greeks are balanced and they don't need their %speed to be removed.

About macedonians, i think that their conversion resistance is not working too well, i may be wrong but it happened for me to get easily converted by shang priests. I may be wrong.

About CA i think that 6 range is enough, they got the speed which gives them a big advantage.

and.. Can you add the population limit to 500 in single player too ?
chab
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 06:11 AM ET (US)     1233 / 1964       
Macedonian conversion resistance is working normally.
I've always supposed that computer player have a better conversion efficiency, at least in hardest level.
However right now I haven't found anything in the code that confirms that, on the contrary.

I still believe there might be something that impacts conversion efficiency for AI, but I don't know where to find this little something.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 06:51 AM ET (US)     1234 / 1964       
Yes, I always thought so too. It could be something to do with the "aiming" or "accuracy" of the Priest, dunno. Even if the ai has some advantage with converting, they also have disadvantages and can easily be fooled. For example when you are converting an ai unit with 2 of your Priests at the same time, the unit freezes and doesn't attack you at all.

@Hersir_Steelhand: I'm glad you managed to fix your problem.
As for Single Player pop limit, I explained the situation few times before, here for example (AOE1 ai just doesn't work like AOE2 ai). Also the maximum pop limit in Multiplayer will very likely be reduced to the more reasonable 300 (my comments here).
I agree for Juggernaught, they shouldn't kill the forest.
Neither do we (greenpeace sentence of the day)
Can't argue with that.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-07-2015 @ 06:58 AM).]

John the Late
Scout
posted 02-07-15 09:40 AM ET (US)     1235 / 1964       
Removing Nobility for Hittites would make their archer bonus useless.
Why that? You can also say that lack of Guard tower makes the roman bonus useless and lack of siege upgrades the Macedonian siege bonus.

Tge Hittite archer bonus comes into play as soon as the first archery range is up and in my opinion is strong enough to justify removal of nobility, which only affects their later game, where they excel anyway.


Edit: The poll results are private, why?

[This message has been edited by John the Late (edited 02-07-2015 @ 09:45 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 10:10 AM ET (US)     1236 / 1964       
Poll results and surveys are just for my own information and use. An easier and unbiased way to provide feedback without posting or even being a registered member here. Usually I release results when a new version is out.

About the archer bonus - CA, HA and HHA would be weaker without Nobility, so Hittites lose their strength when compared to Assyrian or even to default units (for the HA/HHA). This leaves only the Tool Age bowmen with a real advantage (and they can be countered with Slingers). I would rather remove the archer bonus or Craftsmanship, it would work better. But I try to keep civs closer to the original when possible, so I removed things that will have less crucial effect on strategies.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-07-2015 @ 10:29 AM).]

Highwing
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 12:35 PM ET (US)     1237 / 1964       
I don't think Hittites should lose Nobility. I've always thought they should lose at least one of their elephants. Also, have you thought about their ship bonus any more? What you did (+1, +2, +3 range) may be best, but what bothers me about the bonus is that it gives mere War Galleys the same range as Juggernauts in Iron (at least it's not more now), which seems a little silly to me. Juggernauts already have a fairly short range compared to catapults, so I think they should at least have the highest range at sea. What if you made the Hittite bonus +2 in all ages? That way they'd at least still be able to outshoot Triremes (which is still a bit senseless, but oh well).

You mentioned removing some other changes you made - what about Craftsmanship for Sumerians? Did you add this to make up for their decreased farm bonus and/or catapult bonus? I've always thought Sumerians were fine without the third wood upgrade, and it may be somewhat realistic considering their location. They seem powerful enough without it.

And will Assyrians keep Engineering? I know that Assyrians were fairly weak in Iron before UPatch, but giving them Chain Mail helps. But Assyrians already have both Helepolis and Heavy Catapult - I don't think they need Engineering on top of that. Greeks/Romans/Minoans are fine having that because they don't have the economic and archer bonus that Assyrian has.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-07-15 07:55 PM ET (US)     1238 / 1964       
About the Hittite ship bonus - I think +1/+2/+3 is good, as Scout Ships are relatively strong in Tool (compared to land units) and shouldn't get larger bonus to facilitate their attacks from shore. While War Galleys are weak in Iron, so it won't hurt them to have a little more range (but still not +4).

About Sumerians - yes, Craftsmanship could be considered a compensation for the reduced Farm bonus (as +250 Food in Farms was an overkill), but Sumerians also lack a lot of technologies. Relying on Catapults in both RM and DM is no longer so practical, and Catapults cost wood too. Still, I may consider removing it. An important thing to point out is that Sumerian Catapult bonus is NOT reduced, it was always 30% faster fire rate, not 50%.

Assyrians having Engineering is both realistic (unlike Minoan) and logical. I would rather remove Chain Mail (but prefer to keep it too), as their Legions already lack shields, while their Cavalry don't have Nobility. They lack too many unit upgrades and 15% faster villagers don't really make a difference in Iron.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-07-2015 @ 08:13 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 02-08-15 09:43 AM ET (US)     1239 / 1964       
About priests, I ran some experiments and I haven't found any clue. Maybe AI priest DON'T have an better efficiency ? I am not sure.

- Conversion resistance (target unit) : there is no specific rule to calculate conversion resistance but the ones we already know (macedonian, chariots, ships, priests...)
- Interval (converting priest): a "human-controlled" priest and a AI-controlled priest have exactly the same number of "conversion tries" per second. I ran a test for at least 2 minutes and the number was exactly the same (I just forced resistance to a crazy value to make sure no conversion succeeds)
- Conversion efficiency: it depends on
* a pseudo-random number (not related to any "functional" value)
* a global variable factor that never changes
* Target unit resistance
* a "convert action" value=0.3 (seems to be always the same)
* priest's work rate (from AGE3 values, including researches if any)

Maybe the only way to be sure would be to monitor ALL "conversion tries" in a normal game and calculate statistics.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-08-15 01:19 PM ET (US)     1240 / 1964       
Well, in any case I don't see a problem with leaving things as they are with regard to ai Priests. They are not very smart, so even if they have some small advantage here, they have a lot of other disadvantages. You can easily trick them by sending few cheap units first.
ScarXL
Clubman
posted 02-12-15 10:15 AM ET (US)     1241 / 1964       
@aoe_scout
Hello. I found out something that bugs me out in the windowed mode.

I use Bandicam to record AoE to YouTube. I need to put AoE in my desktop resolution & with Windowed Mode enabled to be able to record. Everything is fine. (I don't record with fraps = huge file size)

The only thing that bugs me out is the mouse cursor, can you implement the game curson on Windowed Mode, in the final release of 1.1? It would help me a lot.

If you can't then it's no problem.

Cheers!

UPATCH HD 1.1 FINAL Release 4 --> http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,6327,,10
UPatch made by aoe_scout.
chab
Clubman
posted 02-12-15 12:50 PM ET (US)     1242 / 1964       
"can you implement the game curson on Windowed Mode"

What does it mean ??
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-12-15 06:10 PM ET (US)     1243 / 1964       
I know what it means - yes, in the Final it will automatically use the original game cursor when you apply resolution same as desktop + windowed mode. Game cursor is disabled in Windowed mode to prevent graphical glitches (Windowed mode was developed by VEG, so I don't know how to fully fix this bug).

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-12-2015 @ 06:11 PM).]

Mordan
Clubman
posted 02-13-15 04:01 AM ET (US)     1244 / 1964       
Hi,

Extreme Civ bonuses is what makes RoR stand out. You have interesting civilizations.

All civs are usefull, depending on the settings.It works very well.

Iron Age DM is very well. Nerf all the things you want in Bronze but keep everything like it is in Iron.

Nerfing Chariot Archers will weaken lots of civ in DM.

Sure Hittites is a carry civ in Iron DM but they still lose in many instances.


You will never have good balance with that many civs.

Still I'm impressed with what you are able to do with the patch.
But trust me, balance changes are poisonous for a community of players playing this game for 15 years. I would never play a patch with Cho legions nerfed.

On the other hand, I don't feel cheated when you buff units. Always buff. Never Nerf. Cataphracts need a huge buff. The only nerf that Hittites can sustain without destroying its character is removing cents upgrade and alchemy.

You will never have a realistic game with helepolis firing precision balistic missiles that do no friendly fire.
Catas have scouting abilities. Makes the gameplay better. Imagine having a catapult without 2 viewing range?

Mordan aka LZ_Mordan ROR-EE
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 02-13-15 09:19 AM ET (US)     1245 / 1964       
Well, as you can see from previous posts, many changes will be removed in the Final version. The Beta version was experimental and intended mostly for testing and feedback. Choson Legions will not be nerfed, it's already decided. Hittites will have some technologies removed + Centurion, so that leaves the rest of their units intact.

From what I see from 2 years of surveys/polls and posts here, nobody really believes the civs were well balanced and I think it's obvious they are not. I never wanted to make the game perfectly balanced, just a little more fair for some units/civilizations and also less absurd, while keeping it very close to the original. The bugs are so many, they also affect balance. From a closer look on the game data it's more than obvious that the game was made in a hurry and not well tested for balance. Check my post here for explanation.

What do you mean by "catapults have scouting abilities"? I never changed their range/LOS, only their minimum fire range (it was smaller than Ballista). If you have any other suggestions, you can post them here, but please make sure you check them and also read some of the previous comments here.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 02-13-2015 @ 09:21 AM).]

Highwing
Clubman
posted 02-14-15 02:51 AM ET (US)     1246 / 1964       
Chariot Archers need to be weakened a bit for RM regardless of how they are in DM, because they're simply THAT overpowered in RM. Besides, how often are CAs even used in DM? I don't play DM that much, but I've never seen it unless someone runs out of gold. Seems like a bad idea considering how easily they get slaughtered by Horse Archers and siege.

And what's a "carry civ"?
Ris1ng
Clubman
posted 02-14-15 11:51 AM ET (US)     1247 / 1964       
I also wasn't aware that people utilize CAs in DM (again, I'm not really a DM player), perhaps only by an egyptian player because of HP bonus? Or when gold ends? I don't know.

Because in Iron age they get so many counters that I can't see them being much useful against a player with enough resources, maybe only when the enemy relies mostly on priests I see CAs being most useful.

But I agree with Highwing that CAs need some kind of nerf because of RM, they're really overused (keep in mind that gold is more rare in RM and CA become a really attractive choice, being the best non-gold ranged unit in the game).
ScarXL
Clubman
posted 02-14-15 12:06 PM ET (US)     1248 / 1964       
@aoe_scout
Ok, thanks for letting me know.

UPATCH HD 1.1 FINAL Release 4 --> http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,6327,,10
UPatch made by aoe_scout.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 02-14-15 01:07 PM ET (US)     1249 / 1964       
Well, I can see CA:s used in DM once gold runs out by civs which lack the Scythe, but Scythes should always be preferred by civs like Hittites. Hell, for civs that lack chariots completely even bowmen become viable once the gold rush is over.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 02-15-15 07:10 AM ET (US)     1250 / 1964       
But bowmen chances to be useful against chariot civs are pretty low considering their limited range and hps. I never understood why AoE/RoR kept units like Bowman, Scout and Clubman/Axeman which are pretty useless vs chariots. I like that they don't cost gold, but they pose no real threat to chariot civs. In the AG (after gold) years the Egyptians reign supreme and only the Hittites may pose a threat, just like in 13th century bC.
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