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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » AoE/RoR Modding and Discussion » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-14-13 07:05 PM ET (US)     101 / 1956       
I was hoping if rules.rps could improve what you said - computer units to sometimes prefer attacking someone closer even if he has more hitpoints than other attackers. Right now, units always try to attack the enemy with fewest hitpoints (even if he is weak or far away), circling around like idiots and being killed.

EDIT: some another things I could use help with:
- any hack or modification that will fix the corrupted save games bug in 1.0c. The problem has something to do with the presence of missiles (arrows and similar) when the game is saved.
- hack to enable Random Teams ("?") and "Random" in Random maps list (included in Voobly HD version)

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-15-2013 @ 10:53 AM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 05-15-13 12:37 PM ET (US)     102 / 1956       
- any hack or modification that will fix the corrupted save games bug in 1.0c. The problem has something to do with the presence of missiles (arrows and similar) when the game is saved.
Fixing this could be hard for an AoE developer, with the source code.

Consider it impossible without... Maybe you'll have a good surprise one day but I doubt it.
It would be easier to patch 1.0b version to add it some features like idle villager key than fix such a bug.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-15-13 01:40 PM ET (US)     103 / 1956       
Yes, I know it's very unlikely (I wrote it in "Known bugs that are not fixed"), but decided to mention it. Since the problem is with save games with missiles, if those missiles are modified not to cause this effect... Another possibility I can think of, is to remove the group button from v1.0b and thus at least fix the Farm bug. Not sure if it's also possible.

It sucks that they never fixed 1.0c.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-17-13 04:03 AM ET (US)     104 / 1956       
IMPORTANT: UPatch 1.5 was renamed to UPatch 1.05 - they are completely identical and compatible (you don't need to install 1.05 if you have 1.5). Next version of UPatch will be 1.1 instead of 2.0, because Rise of Rome version will be updated to 1.1. I apologize for the confusion. I didn't have much hopes to change the internal game version, but LucTieuPhung made it possible. So to avoid having 2 numbers in the name or something like "UPatch 2.0 game version 1.1", the next version will UPatch 1.1. All planned features are the same.

The UPatch survey is now open! Please don't start it if you haven't played at least few games with the latest version of UPatch. Many of the questions require some knowledge of the game balance and the whole point of the survey is to provide that information.

The survey contains 27 questions and you can vote only once per computer. Don't reload or change the page or you may be blocked if you try to return. The results (along with the comments here) will have great importance for my decisions for UPatch v1.1.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-11-2013 @ 08:14 AM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 05-20-13 10:11 AM ET (US)     105 / 1956       
About siege weapons, have you tried changing this ?
123 //SNTargetEvaluationSiegeWeapon Sets the additive value used for influencing siege weapons to attack stationary targets (and influencing non-siege weapons not to attack those stationary targets). Must be > 0 to influence the computer player to use siege weapons to attack stationary targets or 0 for no special influence.

I remember you were wondering about siege weapons attacking mobile units...
You may also want to try these :

184//SNTargetEvaluationTimeKillRatio (default 20) The amount of influence the time to kill a target has in deciding what to attack. Must be >= 0.
185//SNTargetEvaluationInProgress (default=50) The amount of influence of continuing to attack a target already under attack. Must be >= 0.



---------------------------
Edit : If you want to test these before next release, here are new PER numbers to be customized with BinaryPatcher. It's for 1.0b version.
Put this in a ini file (change the numbers 18,... if needed, they must be consecutive).

As you can see, such things can be done without writing any single line of code

[BinChange18]
Name=181-ForceNOTUpgradeToToolAgeASAP
Description=SNUpgradeToToolAgeASAP is calculated.\nThis option allow you to force PER calculator to set 181-ForceUpgradeToToolAgeASAP to NO (0) when it wants to set it to 1.\nFor your own good, keep this consistent with ForceUpgradeToToolAgeASAP (maximum 1 of these 2 options should be customized at once)\nDefault=unchecked=normal calculation\n
Offset=1009342
Size=4
Buffer_OFF=7D 04 6A 01
Buffer_ON=7D 04 6A 00
DefaultIsOff=1
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange19]
Name=181-ForceUpgradeToToolAgeASAP
Description=SNUpgradeToToolAgeASAP is calculated.\nThis option allow you to force PER calculator to set 181-ForceUpgradeToToolAgeASAP to YES (1) when it wants to set it to 0.\nFor your own good, keep this consistent with ForceNOTUpgradeToToolAgeASAP (maximum 1 of these 2 options should be customized at once)\nDefault=unchecked=normal calculation\n
Offset=1009346
Size=4
Buffer_OFF=EB 02 6A 00
Buffer_ON=EB 02 6A 01
DefaultIsOff=1
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange20]
Name=182-ForceNOTUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP
Description=SNUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP is calculated.\nThis option allow you to force PER calculator to set 182-ForceUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP to NO (0) when it wants to set it to 1.\nFor your own good, keep this consistent with ForceUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP (maximum 1 of these 2 options should be customized at once)\nDefault=unchecked=normal calculation\n
Offset=1009388
Size=4
Buffer_OFF=7D 04 6A 01
Buffer_ON=7D 04 6A 00
DefaultIsOff=1
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange21]
Name=182-ForceUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP
Description=SNUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP is calculated.\nThis option allow you to force PER calculator to set 182-ForceUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP to YES (1) when it wants to set it to 0.\nFor your own good, keep this consistent with ForceNOTUpgradeToBronzeAgeASAP (maximum 1 of these 2 options should be customized at once)\nDefault=unchecked=normal calculation\n
Offset=1009392
Size=4
Buffer_OFF=EB 02 6A 00
Buffer_ON=EB 02 6A 01
DefaultIsOff=1
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange22]
Name=208-AutoBuildDocks
Description=208-AutoBuildDocks PER number customization for RM/DM.\nIf checked, computer players will build docks automatically.\nDefault=checked=YES
Offset=1008431
Size=7
Buffer_OFF=6A 00 68 D0 00 00 00
Buffer_ON=6A 01 68 D0 00 00 00
DefaultIsOff=0
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange23]
Name=209-AutoBuildFishingBoats
Description=209-AutoBuildFishingBoats PER number customization for RM/DM.\nIf checked, computer players will build fishing ships automatically.\nDefault=checked=YES
Offset=1008455
Size=7
Buffer_OFF=6A 00 68 D1 00 00 00
Buffer_ON=6A 01 68 D1 00 00 00
DefaultIsOff=0
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange24]
Name=210-AutoBuildTransports
Description=210-AutoBuildTransports PER number customization for RM/DM.\nIf checked, computer players will build transport ships automatically.\nDefault=checked=YES
Offset=1008479
Size=7
Buffer_OFF=6A 00 68 D2 00 00 00
Buffer_ON=6A 01 68 D2 00 00 00
DefaultIsOff=0
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0
[BinChange25]
Name=223-AutoBuildWarships
Description=223-AutoBuildWarships PER number customization for RM/DM.\nIf checked, computer players will build war ships automatically.\nDefault=checked=YES
Offset=1008503
Size=7
Buffer_OFF=6A 00 68 DF 00 00 00
Buffer_ON=6A 01 68 DF 00 00 00
DefaultIsOff=0
IntParamOffset=-1
IntParamSize=0



------------------------
Edit :
You removed [R36 Massive_Catapult] from palmyra DM AI file, are sure sure of that ??? Palmyra actually trains massive catapults in DM (it's working well).

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 05-20-2013 @ 12:24 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-20-13 12:05 PM ET (US)     106 / 1956       
Good findings! BTW, I think hacks for 1.0c will be more useful - I'm leaning toward 1.0c for base of UPatch 1.1. 1.0b is more vulnerable to cheating in Multiplayer and has Farm bug. Also most BinaryPatcher hacks are now for 1.0c.

What about auto build farms (SN 206)? My test indicates that this is OFF by default. It is very possible to be better with ON (but needs testing to confirm). With this ON, Farms should be built when needed, no matter how many are included in the .ai.

About the SN values for siege weapons you mentioned, I haven't tried if they have any real effect (I somehow doubt it), but since they can't changed for RM & DM anyway, they are not very useful.
You removed [R36 Massive_Catapult] from palmyra DM AI file, are sure sure of that ??? Palmyra actually trains massive catapults in DM (it's working well).
Yes, you are right! The file is DEATH MATCH PALMYRA WATER.ai. AI Edit incorrectly states that this is not researchable for Palmyrans, and shows it as bad value. Thanks for notifying me, will be fixed in the next version. BTW, the file had few other problems too, that are fixed correctly. This should be incidental error.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-20-2013 @ 12:45 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 05-20-13 01:29 PM ET (US)     107 / 1956       
I think SN206 is ON by default.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-20-13 01:44 PM ET (US)     108 / 1956       
Well, I performed 2 tests, each one was at least 1:30 hours long (game time) - a scenario with Default.per and 2 ai files (one was original) with only Farms deleted. Not even 1 Farm was build by any of the 8 players. When I used the non modified version - they build Farms again.
chab
Clubman
posted 05-20-13 04:22 PM ET (US)     109 / 1956       
In Random map and Death match they build farms even if AI files don't contain any.
Try deathmatch, you'll see.

I don't know exactly about scenario, it must be a little different. Have you tried without PER file ?
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-21-13 03:01 AM ET (US)     110 / 1956       
There is no such option ("None") for per files, even if I delete all per files, I still get "Random" (which when tested shows no difference from Default.per). I run 4 tests on Random maps with only Babylonians and only 2 modified Babylonian ai files with no Farms (all other ai files deleted!) - no Farms built in the game. But you are right about Death Match, apparently it has different SN 206.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 05-30-13 05:05 PM ET (US)     111 / 1956       
I found a way (using class 27 Wall) to make Farms not counted as buildings that must be destroyed for victory (you no longer need to destroy all enemy Farms to win) and as a result they are also not attacked automatically by enemy units (but can still be targeted). I'm still not sure if this won't produce some bugs (I solved few so far) and it's just an idea for now. What do you think?

I also have the idea of posting single question polls from time to time (may be Weekly Polls), so I can easily see what you think about certain things and also to keep things interesting here (while I'm working on UPatch 1.1). Some questions might be just for fun. Unlike the official survey you won't need to play with UPatch to answer - everyone can vote. What do you think about that idea?

I've made one such poll already:
"What do you think about: Farms not attacked automatically and not counted as buildings that must be destroyed for victory?"
Don't forget to press the "Vote" after selecting your answer.
NOTE: You can vote once in a week from the same computer.
NOTE2: The results are just for information, may not affect my final decision at all.

Also don't forget to vote in the official UPatch survey after playing few games with UPatch 1.05.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-30-2013 @ 06:15 PM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 05-31-13 01:41 PM ET (US)     112 / 1956       
I voted for retaining the original farms. I thought I should give you a piece of my mind as well.

I think this is a less needed modification, and unnecessary tweaks like that kind of go against the goal of this mod.

Farms are weak buildings and in some cases it can definitely be useful to destroy them to prevent your opponents economy from recovering. Disabling auto attacks against farms means players that actually want to destroy farms will have to do so manually. It means players will have to make changes to the way they play the game, and not only their strategies.

If there was an option to make Farms, Houses and other non-producing buildings not prevent a player from losing without changing the gameplay mechanics, I believe that would be an acceptable change.

If the change however is made, I believe it should be adapted to drop off points as well.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
chab
Clubman
posted 06-01-13 09:37 AM ET (US)     113 / 1956       
I agree, disabling auto-attack is a problem.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-01-13 12:47 PM ET (US)     114 / 1956       
I see your point. If I find a way to enable auto attack, while keeping the rest... I'm not sure that's even possible.

My problem is that I need more feedback for all changes from 1.05. For 3 weeks (since release) I've got almost none. May be there isn't much interest, because few people are looking for mods for such an old game. Anyway, I couldn't release the complete version (the actual unofficial patch) without knowing what people like/agree with. There are many big and important changes, that need testing by more than 1 person.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-13-13 12:15 PM ET (US)     115 / 1956       
I've been working on further improving the title screen. I already improved it a lot before (check the screenshots), but it still has quite low quality AOE logo, which when resized, looks even worse. It took me a lot of time and effort, but I've made great progress in reconstructing the logo. Will post a screenshot when it's finished.

Here is another change that I've been planning for a long time and would like to hear what you think about it (I also made a poll):

What do you think about: Logistics will give +2 transport boat capacity. Press "Vote" after selecting. You can vote once every week from the same computer.

After upgrading, Light Transport will be able to carry 7 units, Heavy Transport - 12.
I always though transports are a little too limiting, especially for civs that don't have H.T. and especially with larger than 50 pop limit. And Logistics was quite useless for many of the civs until now. In addition to this I'll either enable Heavy Transports or Logistics for Palmyrans, as they are the only civ that has neither.

UPatch HD - the unofficial (HD) patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome - HD resolution, HD quality interface graphics, hundreds of bug fixes, new gameplay options and many other enhancements.
--- Download here (version 1.1 Release 3).
--- For more information visit the site.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-13-2013 @ 12:17 PM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 06-13-13 03:05 PM ET (US)     116 / 1956       
Increasing light transport capacity: Yes, but I would just do it straight away, not connect it to a research.

The heavy transport.... I dont know, can go both ways. On the one hand, transports are easy to sink, and if it sinks it will take about 1/5 of your total pop cap with it. However, that argument can also be used to say it should be increased, because ships that do make it to land will have more impact.
iVoid
Clubman
posted 06-13-13 06:08 PM ET (US)     117 / 1956       
This is fantastic! I wanted an UserPatch for AOE1 and now I finally find this. Excellent work! Keep it up!
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 01:05 AM ET (US)     118 / 1956       
Thanks, iVoid.

All Weekly votes in one post can be found here. I also added a new question:
Your favorite unit in the game is (you can add one)?

@Thompsoncs: Exactly as you said, you take a greater risk by carrying more units in a single transport, but you also get better reward. You can always send half full transports for less risk or even some empty transports to fool the enemy.
I thinks it's not a bad idea to increase capacity by technology, not directly - it makes it a little more interesting and also fits in my idea to enhance few of the technologies. I'm wondering if I should make it +1 for Light Transport, +2 for Heavy? I made it +2 for both to help some civs that don't have H.T.

But my biggest problem is that I will need many more people to test current version and provide feedback before I can release next version. As of now I have very little feedback on the changes from 1.05.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-14-2013 @ 01:06 AM).]

Ardenstrom
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 03:19 AM ET (US)     119 / 1956       
WoW! This is so awesome!

I used to stop playing because of the coloring glitch and low resolution.. But now I can actually revisit this awesome game!

You are probably quite aware, that there is a Blacksmith User Patch for Age of Empires II that fixes all - resolution, many bugs, you can choose any level cap you want up to 1000, by choice in the in-game menu. It's a dream patch.
It's a bummer, that the very first Age Of Empires obviously lacked this kind of attention. Until now

I like original AoE much more, middle ages don't appeal to me as much as ancient history, so I'm really excited about 1.1

Anyway, maybe you guys could work together on this. I mean, AoE and AoE II should not be different that much. Or you could take something from their work and fit it into UPatch.
Or, as for population caps, there are other guys that solved this problem somehow, maybe they could contribute.

Wish you the best, guys. Can't wait for this super-patch mod!

P.S. I'd love to give feedback about gameplay changes, but I haven't been playing AoE for 5-7 years or so. I can only say, that I really hope that changes don't stray away too much from the original feel of Age Of Empires. Can't say more, because I'm revisiting =)

That's why, I guess, I'm more interested in Compatibility Install Mode for now

[This message has been edited by Ardenstrom (edited 06-14-2013 @ 03:40 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 04:52 AM ET (US)     120 / 1956       
Thanks for your input, Ardenstrom.

Yes, we are well aware of the fantastic UserPatch for AOE2 (I never play AOE2 without it), but unfortunately everything is very different when reverse engineering and we can't really benefit from their findings. It took them years to achieve that and we can't even begin to compare with them. Also AOE1 doesn't provide half of the possibilities of AOE2, so no one will be interested in spending years of work on it. Fortunately, we already have the most important hacks, thanks to chab and LucTieuPhung.

Changing the population limit in Single Player was never a problem - it's extremely simple. But to make computer players build more than 50 units and have logical strategy, all ai files (over 110) must be remade (they are low quality anyway). This will take a LOT of time and testing. And to top that, the ai in AOE1 will still very much suck, because it lacks a lot of internal code (which we can't add, because Microsoft will never release the source code). I can't work on this now, as I have much more important work to do on UPatch. That's why I need help from people that can build ai files.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-14-2013 @ 07:36 AM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 08:16 AM ET (US)     121 / 1956       
all ai files (over 110) must be remade (they are low quality anyway). This will take a LOT of time and testing
Tell me about it. It's one of the reasons I lost motivation to continue the Age of Italy Mod. Deathmatch was allright, because they are fewer and relatively easy to test. RM ai files are hell. That's why AoI only has multiplayer and DM working.

It would be a bit easier to change the existing ai files however. It's mostly a matter of adding new units and buildings. For a full conversion it's much harder. But still, it would take a lot of time. And aoe1 has a near non-existant modding community. Modding aok is much easier, because lots of people can help.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 10:16 AM ET (US)     122 / 1956       
The old files were so FULL of bugs (I fixed 58 of them with v1.05), there are not quality material to say the least. And if you want to create proper ai, you will need to insert many small changes from the very beginning, along with fixing the bad ai (example: currently computer players create 12-14 villagers in Stone Age, which is a joke even for 50 population). So it's as creating new files.

Unfortunately, some parts of AOE1 (the entire ai code included) are just badly written, like in some sort of alpha version! You can see from the bug list how many obvious and ridiculous bugs there are, which were not fixed by any of the updates nor the Expansion. While AOE2 is not such an unfinished product at all. Too bad for us.
chab
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 12:27 PM ET (US)     123 / 1956       
In fact many bugs have no impact on the game.
If an AI file contains some tech that is not available for the civilization, it's just skipped.
That's why you have better writing AI files with too much lines than not enough.

Of course, on the contrary, missing required building or tech are serious issues, but there's less of such cases.

Here is a crucial point : some AI files (for RM, not DM) are used by several (or even many) civs. If you change them, it may impact any civ that is using it.
Right now I don't know exactly how the association civ <-> AI file is done, but always keep in mind you should keep the more techs as possible in AI files.

An example : if an AI file makes the player train cavalry, let all cavalry armors in the AI file, even if it's used by assyria. Assyria will skip unavailable tech and it won't be missing if Hittites use it.

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 06-14-2013 @ 12:28 PM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 01:18 PM ET (US)     124 / 1956       
Here is a crucial point : some AI files (for RM, not DM) are used by several (or even many) civs. If you change them, it may impact any civ that is using it.
Right now I don't know exactly how the association civ <-> AI file is done, but always keep in mind you should keep the more techs as possible in AI files.
That is true, but only for RM ai files. DM ai files are clearly written for one civ only.

These RM ai files being for more than one civ is a big problem for full conversion mods, I hope it can be fixed should I ever continue my mod.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-14-13 02:03 PM ET (US)     125 / 1956       
I don't believe leaving technologies that can't be researched is completely harmless - everyone recommends against it and is considered bugging the ai. I can also assure you that most of the ai files I fixed have at least small impact on the game, half of them - very visible (assuming computer players manage to develop properly). But even with the fixes, the ai is slow and sometimes stuck in early ages, thanks to the poor internal code.

Ai files used for more than 1 civilization are already removed in v1.05. Check the list of changes.

EDIT: Farm question was removed from the polls, it's irrelevant as Farms won't be changed for now.
New question added (with screenshots):
Which text for population info (the one available when you press F11) is better?
The screenshots show it in widescreen resolution.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 06-16-2013 @ 12:09 PM).]

DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 06-16-13 08:11 PM ET (US)     126 / 1956       
I'd love to see naval combat and economy get more love. I was thinking about creating a second building called a port that would serve as a research center for ships. It would be constructed on water the same as the dock and would be available for construction in the bronze age.

Technologies could cover areas such as ship durability (health and armor), transport capacity, or fishing vessel resource carriage. Just to a name a few. I would think it would be interesting to see how it could play out.
Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 06-16-13 08:36 PM ET (US)     127 / 1956       
Though that is an interesting idea, its more an idea for a mod, than this userpatch, which I thinks means to keep true to the gameplay of aoe, but just tweak it a bit within the existing techs and bonusses, not adding new techs.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-25-13 07:09 AM ET (US)     128 / 1956       
--------- Could one of the moderators please rename this topic to "UPatch - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome" ?

@Cyrix: when UPatch 1.1 is complete, anyone can create mods based on it, which could add or change different things. I'll be happy to see such mods.
I also change some things (mostly balance changes), but still try to keep close to the original game. I'll most likely revert few of the changes from 1.05, they were experimental - to let me know how people feel about them. Unfortunately I still haven't got enough opinions.

Please, don't forget I need your help with game balance - test v1.05 and tell me how it works, so I know what to keep and what to remove. Without this it will take much longer for v1.1 to be completed.

Work is somewhat slow lately, due to lack of free time. As you know, my initial plans to release some simple mod + quickly made (low quality) resolutions were abandoned even before v1.05. Instead, this project will be high quality unofficial patch. This also means it will take time (few months at least) to complete. There will be a lot of surprises and interesting things, expect more details on the way.

New Weekly votes question:
Which is (are) your favorite original Campaign(s)?
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-25-13 09:14 PM ET (US)     129 / 1956       
Done.

About the testing, my id on GR is still 319595, so if anyone catches me online I've got the patch downloaded so I might just be up for some MP testing. This is definitely becoming a good patch, so I'd really like to see it get some more attention on the testing side.

edit: I noticed you've fixed the behavior for Hero Archimedes. I'm not sure if this is really a desirable fix, as the "following behavior" is well known and has actually been used by scenario designers in some applications. I don't really think it is a needed fix that improves the game in any way, but rather takes away an interesting possibility.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

[This message has been edited by Dubstepfisk (edited 06-25-2013 @ 09:21 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 06-26-13 06:14 AM ET (US)     130 / 1956       
Hmm, I didn't know that about Archimedes. No problem, I'll revert it in 1.1. Thanks a lot for notifying me.

If anyone notice something similar, notify me so I can change it before the release of 1.1.
Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 07-02-13 08:16 AM ET (US)     131 / 1956       
Do you also plan to include aok eye candy, like flowers, grass patches, haystacks, cacti, rocks etc? It would allow for more creative combinations in making terrains. I've also tried making ice/snow patches, but did not get good results yet.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-02-13 08:44 AM ET (US)     132 / 1956       
I don't know about eye candy. It will be difficult to choose exactly what to add and then sort out what will fit well in the game. So I guess I won't add any. But if someone present me with a good combination that fits well, I can think about it.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-02-2013 @ 08:44 AM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 07-02-13 09:05 AM ET (US)     133 / 1956       
I have all the slps ready in my age of italy mod drs file. I would just include them, and leave it up to the user to determine how well it fits and how he uses it.

One example I made:


Not the very best, but it shows I think that it can fit

[This message has been edited by Thompsoncs (edited 07-02-2013 @ 09:10 AM).]

Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 07-03-13 00:40 AM ET (US)     134 / 1956       
considering that many fans still use AoE to create their own scenarios, adding eye candy (AoK's or not) would be nice, but not mandatory. I like the original AoE eye candy more than the AoK one, specially if used with the improved scenario editors
Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 03:18 AM ET (US)     135 / 1956       
Yes, but since its extra it only gives more options. It doesnt replace the old ones.
Winderly
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 05:55 AM ET (US)     136 / 1956       
Hi all ^^
i'm new to this forum and to AoE mods.
i'm a fan of mods since ages (i wanted to say this one) but not of AoE mods (because i never knew such mods exist).

i read you don't have enough feedback to work as you want on your mod, so i'll do my best to provide some feedback to you (i'm downloading Upatch 1.05 now).
But i'm a weak RTS player (my favorite genres are FPS and MMO and diablo likes) so please don't take my feedback too seriously.

Right now my only concern is this line in the mod description : (and is this the right way to quote ?)
- The original vanilla Age of Empires is not affected in any way.
I can already tell i'd like the mod changes to be applied to the original vanilla game too (but if you don't want/can't/or whatever it's fine because it's your mod and work).

All right i'll send some feedback tomorrow at the latest (or today if i'm lucky with installation and usage of the mod).

By the mod description i already know most of it will please me, so thank you.

[This message has been edited by Winderly (edited 07-03-2013 @ 06:12 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 11:22 AM ET (US)     137 / 1956       
Thanks, Winderly, I appreciate any help. Take your time with testing, you will need to play for some time to properly see how the game balance is really affected.

About vanilla AOE - there won't be any patch for it. The reasons are many, I will list most of them (for anyone who wants to know):
- The most important reason is that ROR is not only update of AOE, but has also very different game balance (new units and technologies). So basically I would have to work on 2 separate games, doing 2 separate patches with different changes to compensate each game balance.
- Even if I wanted to make the patch, the hacks needed for resolution and other things are available only for ROR.
- With UPatch 1.1, I won't even support older versions of ROR, only the latest patch (1.0c).
- Vanilla AOE lacks some very basic RTS elements like unit queuing and double click to select all units. This further diminishes the sense of creating a patch.
- Usually, when patches are created (official or unofficial), only the latest version is updated. UserPatch for AOE2 works only for The Conquerors and only for v1.0c of TC, even though some people prefer older versions. This is how things work with game patches.
- You can install and play original ROR even if you don't have ROR CD (you need to borrow it from someone only for install). The original ROR can be played with original AOE CD, they are detected as same. This is perfectly legal, Microsoft intentionally made it this way, it's not a trick.
- Or you can buy AOE Collector's Edition (AOE1 + AOE2 + their expansions), which doesn't need CD, for below 10$/10 (Amazon, ebay).

About the eye candy: it looks strange to just copy eye candy from AOE2, I don't like it very much. AOE1 could use some beautification, but I prefer more fitting and slightly more unique (even if it's from other games). The best thing to do is for someone to start a separate project for eye candy that's specifically made/adapted for AOE1 and really enhance the terrains. Then I will include it also in Random Maps and the whole game will look a lot better.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-03-2013 @ 11:39 AM).]

Winderly
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 12:08 PM ET (US)     138 / 1956       
And here are my impressions about my first game using UPatch

i first had to check wether i had installed UPatch properly so i reread the list of changes.
Random maps---- Small Islands:
- No Pine Forest, less normal Forest (oak).
- More Desert, Palm Desert and Jungle
- No Elephants, Lions and Eagles; more Gazelles and more Alligators.
- Much more fish (mostly Salmon and Whale)
All checked and working.
I think there still isn't enough forest on this map type as i went out of wood pretty fast (and the computer too apparently since the water areas went empty of ships fast too).

I think there's too much food on the islands (fish is ok IMO).
Maybe the amount of Gazelles or Berry Bushes or both should be reduced a bit.

I'm not sure about stone and gold yet so i'll pass that for now.

Overall the game feels much more balanced (at my skill level), i'll have to test on a map with more woods but it felt like it could last 4 hours easily.
- More distance (water) between individual islands
i think this failed on me despite the gigantic map size first screenshot and as a result Ais 3, 5 and 7 were very close and brown was hit hard all game long.

second screenshot
last screenshot

And of course i'll need more games to check if what i saw here is right or not and to see anything else.

N.B.:
I forgot to mention the Ai seems to ignore the preset teams (it already did that in vanilla AoE).
While some enemy (orange) of his team built a Wonder, red kept attacking my fleet.

[This message has been edited by Winderly (edited 07-03-2013 @ 12:25 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 01:08 PM ET (US)     139 / 1956       
Thanks a lot for the feedback.

It will be useful if you tell me more details about the game you played - teams and difficulty level + your approximate game skills. You can also check the official survey and Weekly votes.

About Random maps: they are quite uncontrollable in AOE1. You are right, the distance is not large enough in some maps, but I'm afraid if I increase it further it will have bad effect on small maps. That's why I improved some minor things in Random Maps and I can't do something big, because only part of the code for RM is available and things are interconnected.

I recommend you to leave Random Map testing, because it's very hard to properly test Random maps - you will need to start generating maps (more than 30) in Scenario Editor and carefully examine each of them, then comparing them with default.

About the ai: Ai testing is not really needed for v1.05 - I made no actual changes to the ai, only fixed a lot of bugs with improperly ordered technologies/buildings and wrong values. This means the ai will not fail due to these bugs, but could fail for many other reasons.

Computer players prefer attacking human player - this can be changed, but it will need more testing to be sure it doesn't have negative impact in some cases. I will consider it.

Unfortunately, most of the code that defines unit behavior and general ai is hardcoded (unchangeable) - ai in AOE1 is poor and we can't do much about it.

The most important things to test are: balance between different civilizations, balance with the changed units, resources and how they are affected with all changes. And of course, any other thing you notice or want to suggest.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-03-2013 @ 01:19 PM).]

Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 01:47 PM ET (US)     140 / 1956       
I think you make a mistake concerning the eye candy, but in the end its your choice.
Winderly
Clubman
posted 07-03-13 02:04 PM ET (US)     141 / 1956       
I recommend you to leave Random Map testing, because it's very hard to properly test Random maps - you will need to start generating maps (more than 30) in Scenario Editor and carefully examine each of them, then comparing them with default.
i only play random maps so i'll try my best with random maps.
The intensive and precise testing you suggest should be performed by strong players only.
i can't be that reliable.
About the ai: Ai testing is not really needed for v1.05 - I made no actual changes to the ai, only fixed a lot of bugs with improperly ordered technologies/buildings and wrong values. This means the ai will not fail due to these bugs, but could fail for many other reasons.

Computer players prefer attacking human player - this can be changed, but it will need more testing to be sure it doesn't have negative impact in some cases. I will consider it.

Unfortunately, most of the code that defines unit behavior and general ai is hardcoded (unchangeable) - ai in AOE1 is poor and we can't do much about it.
The most important things to test are: balance between different civilizations, balance with the changed units, resources and how they are affected with all changes. And of course, any other thing you notice or want to suggest.
Dunno if that'll help at anything but, my game was set as :
- small islands random map,
- gigantic size,
- standard victory conditions (but i stopped playing before anyone got victory because that obviously wouldn't happen with everyone out of wood),
- nomad age,
- default resources,
- the slowest speed mode available,
- not fixed positions or full tech tree or reveal map.
8 players (7 AIs and myself in green color) parted in 4 teams.
1st team were minoans, 2nd team were phoenicians, 3rd team were yamatos, and the 4th team were hittites.


After more games it seems there generally is enough wood on this map type (now i see why 1 single game isn't enough).
i will also try more civilization combinations.

[This message has been edited by Winderly (edited 07-04-2013 @ 08:56 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-08-13 08:11 AM ET (US)     142 / 1956       
I would recommend you to test different maps, not islands, because you can't see the actual unit/civ balance with islands, where units have to be transported. Also tell me which computer player difficulty you select (Hard or Hardest are recommended).

New Weekly Votes question:
War/Armored Elephants cost to 170F, 60G (was 40G); Elephant Archer to 180F, 70G (was 60G)?
All previous questions are here.

EDIT: I improved the resolution change method and it will now be much faster. As I already pointed out, changing the resolution (except to 800x600 or 640x480) will only be possible after you exit the game. That won't change, no menus or anything are possible inside the game, because everything is hardcoded and may take years to reverse engineer. We are lucky to be able to change the resolution at all.

How it will work: if you select 1280x720 and start the game, you will be able to change the resolution to 800x600, 640x480 or back to 1280x720, but not to 1920x1080 or any other. To change to 1920x1080 (or other), you must exit the game completely, open the UPatch resolution change program and select 1920x1080.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-10-2013 @ 06:47 AM).]

Winderly
Clubman
posted 07-11-13 07:54 AM ET (US)     143 / 1956       
Will the 1680 * 1050 resolution be supported ?
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-11-13 08:11 AM ET (US)     144 / 1956       
Yes. All available information about the next version, including supported resolutions and screenshots is posted here (this link is already included in Download page and first post). If you have any further questions that are not answered there, feel free to ask.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-11-2013 @ 09:20 AM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 07-11-13 05:49 PM ET (US)     145 / 1956       
Well, I believe a slight increase in War Ellie costs might be justified, as they are currently much more prise-worthy than other Iron Age melee units when it comes to gold consumption.

Elephant Archers on the other hand are actually a unit group that I believe is underused in the unmodified game. Although the siege nerf greatly benefits these slow ranged units, I don't think they should be made less useful. After all, their only real purposes are still being robust ranged support units or a counter to other archery range units. They are not at all a stand-alone unit of the same type as War Elephants/AEs.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-11-13 06:16 PM ET (US)     146 / 1956       
You are right, I'm thinking about restoring Elephant Archers price to default. I made them only +10G for the same reasons, but they cost more food than WA/AE anyway.

Another difficult question is what to do with Cavalry. I made them cost -5 Gold and have +3/+4/+6 atk (for Cav, H.Cav., Cataphract) vs infantry, but I don't know if I should keep those changes or make other. My biggest concern is Bronze Age warfare. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Cavalry shouldn't be so easy and fast to deploy, they shouldn't cost that much gold (including in Iron Age), they should be more effective vs Chariot Archers and less effective vs infantry. I'm not sure I achieved that (even with my changes: CA: -1 range and Broad Sword: +10 hitpoints). Any opinions or suggestions are welcome.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 07-11-13 08:37 PM ET (US)     147 / 1956       
Infantry, the weakest of the units, not so fast enough, weak vs cavalry, archers and siege weapons, but Infantry is super cheap (at least barracks') and so fast trained.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-11-13 10:06 PM ET (US)     148 / 1956       
OK, but what do you mean by that - do you think something should be changed or not? And what about Cavalry?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 07-12-2013 @ 08:57 PM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 07-13-13 04:39 PM ET (US)     149 / 1956       
Well, although cavalry should be a viable counter to CA's, you should be careful not to have them intrude too much on the domain of camels. They should definitely keep being efficient against light infantry.

I can kind of agree on the whole slower deployment/lower cost thing, depending on exactly what change you are proposing I might be in favor of it, I'm not completely sure.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 07-13-13 06:58 PM ET (US)     150 / 1956       
My dilemma is should I leave them as they are in v1.05 (-5G cost & +3 atk vs inf.) or do they need some additional or alternative changes to replace these? For example, should it be +4 or +3 atk vs infantry (+5 seems a little excessive in Bronze Age)? Is the gold cost not lowered enough or is it too low now?
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