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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » AoE/RoR Modding and Discussion » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-03-14 01:01 PM ET (US)     451 / 1956       
You have my opinions in the survey. Other than that I'll have to do a bit of testing around before I can come up with some thoughts on the latest changes, so far I can say most of it is looking good, a few of those things I actually had in mind but I never spoke up. Tweaking of ugly graphical bugs is always appreciated.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
lazxl
Clubman
posted 03-04-14 07:01 AM ET (US)     452 / 1956       
Wow, a lot of changes this time.
I can already give feedback on most of the changes now, but the rest of the changes I'll need to do tests first (for example: many tests on stable unit attack speed changes, slinger changes). I have some homework to do.


Q1: Did you also reduce the reload time of Ballista towers?

Q2: Why +8% attack speed for cavalry and +4% for camel riders?

Q3: Why is the increased training time of archers not in this patch?

Q4: Why did you lower the Scythe Chariot attack speed?


Things where I already agree with are:
Watch Tower buffed. //Watch towers are so easily to destroy, that in several games I didn't even bother to build towers.

Shang no longer get Alchemy (they now get Ballistics instead). //I was going to propose this immediately if you'd add Ballistics to Shang. :-)

Plow to +15% farmer work rate. //This was a must-have upgrade for me. Now it's slightly tuned down. I'm interested what others think about this.

Stone Mine back to 250 stone. //I never run out of stone. I do usually (eventually) run out of gold though.

Trireme reload time reduction to 10% in stead of 30%.
//Probably I also agree with the reload time reduction change of Ballistas from 15% to 10%: Ballistas are very easily to destroy in 1.07. I will try them out in 1.08.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-04-14 07:48 AM ET (US)     453 / 1956       
1. No, they were already at -10% reload speed from previous versions. They really benefit from faster projectiles, so it was logical to reduce their reload speed a little (same for Ballista, Trireme).

2. Because Camels are cheaper and trained faster. The idea is to make Cavalry better for their price, but Camels are not in such a bad situation. And making Camels stronger means making Cavalry weaker. I could even leave them with default attack reload speed (as they are in AOE2, unlike Cavalry).

3. It is (included in 1st post and even in the survey). I just forgot to add it to the changelog (fixed), sorry. Everything else is there. Updating the documentation for new release is a nightmare - it takes me many hours to check and update everything.

4. This is open to discussion, but the reduction is because Scythe Chariots cost only Food and Wood and are the best spam units in Iron Age. They are perfect villager killers - with speed, trample damage, good stats, invulnerable to Priests. You can easily mix them with Gold units for even better combo. If a player manages to get to Iron and quickly spam them in great numbers (which is not hard, as they need only 1 upgrade and you can start creating Chariots from Bronze), then he will be unstoppable. You can counter them with Horse Archers or Ballista, but these units cost a lot of gold (and are slower to train).

Plow was made to +15%, so that it doesn't affect game mechanics too much. It's a bit safer this way and people are used to having a lot of Farms anyway.

The Trireme reload time reduction to 30% was a bug (my mistake), I always intended it to be 10% (and it was described as -10%).

I'm very interested to hear opinions about the train time changes.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-04-2014 @ 08:02 AM).]

Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-04-14 11:46 PM ET (US)     454 / 1956       
The poll idea is interesting and very interactive, I like it. Sadly, as it happens with democracy, most of the people is wrong most of the time, I hope this is not the case.

By the way, aoe_scout I don't remember if you have ever advertised in rornews. Some people who has been really active in this game used to post there.

To bad you don't know chinese of vietnamese either, but I wonder if you have tried to contact them.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 03:19 AM ET (US)     455 / 1956       
Yes, I mentioned it before - since August I have a topic in the largest Vietnamese AOE forum (total members: 138 958)! There's even a Vietnamese translation provided, thanks to loveleeyoungae.

I haven't posted in ROR News, but I posted info about it in few other places and I intend to post it on ModDB.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-05-2014 @ 03:25 AM).]

Flo_o
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 07:16 AM ET (US)     456 / 1956       
I like to see some AI improvements in 1.1, the two things that irritates me the most are the CPU wandering farmers and the chilling fisherman boats, when a farm runs out, their farmers will go for a walk, but i mean a very long walk:P
Also i see a lot of frozen CPU fisherman boats when there is plenty of fish to catch.

There is also a third problem i have. I play a lot of singleplayer games with allies, but the annoying thing is when i am the Persian or Greek and building War Elephants and Catapults (or Juggernauts), they will always hit a friendly unit, and when that is happening, my allies will turn into enemies, i hate that.

Keep up the good work
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 07:42 AM ET (US)     457 / 1956       
From the list of new features in 1.1: Computer player allies won't change their diplomacy on accidental hits (Catapults, Elephants, etc).

This is possible because it's controlled by a simple SN value (already available in .per files for scenarios). But unfortunately (as I said many times) general ai/unit behavior can't be improved. The ai in the game is just very bad and primitive, it must be rewritten in most parts - impossible without a source code and a work only for a professional game studio. So don't expect any such improvements.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-05-2014 @ 07:56 AM).]

Flo_o
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 08:21 AM ET (US)     458 / 1956       
Hi aoe_scout, sorry, i am new here and did not know about the primitive AI. But awesome to hear that the allies won't change their diplomacy anymore in 1.1, can't wait

Oh yeah, i have posted this question in the multiplayer section, but maybe it's good to ask it hear too, i have constantly out of sync errors when multiplayer, will this be optimized in 1.1 too? Is it fixable?

Thanks again for replying
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 08:53 AM ET (US)     459 / 1956       
Out of sync could be caused by many things. You should try using GameRanger and version 1.0a for Multiplayer, it could solve some of the issues.

Make sure you are not trying to play UPatch in Multiplayer with someone who doesn't have UPatch or have different version of UPatch. Because that will 100% cause out of sync (that's explained in the description - "Supported versions").

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-05-2014 @ 08:56 AM).]

Flo_o
Clubman
posted 03-05-14 09:05 AM ET (US)     460 / 1956       
Hi aoe_scout,

no, we have both exactly the same version, a RoR 1.0a with UPatch 1.0.8, that's all. The aoesync.txt includes the following line:

=====> MISMATCHED RANDOM ( 17375 should be 32732)
=====> MISMATCHED CHECKSUM...New
=====> MISMATCHED..Position

Hmm.. GameRanger, i will check it out! Thanks, strange that using Tunngle (or Hamachi for example) could be the problem.
Jamez88
Clubman
posted 03-06-14 07:00 PM ET (US)     461 / 1956       
How do I change the resolution?
Also my antivirus says that this is a trojan.

[This message has been edited by Jamez88 (edited 03-06-2014 @ 07:08 PM).]

pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-06-14 11:21 PM ET (US)     462 / 1956       
The new resolution will be available in 1.1. It's no trojan. I use this patch and didn't experience problems like this. :-)
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-07-14 04:15 AM ET (US)     463 / 1956       
Please read before asking. It's clearly explained in the description:
The next version - 1.1 (not the current 1.0.8) will also include fully working custom resolutions.
You can see the VirusTotal report - only 2 out of 50 antivirus programs report it as malware and they are not among the top products. Some antivirus programs have high rate of false positives (detect normal programs as viruses), this is not my fault. Disable your antivirus before downloading and installing or just use better antivirus program.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-11-14 04:03 PM ET (US)     464 / 1956       
Okay, so most changes in 1.08 are pretty great IMO. Slinger's balance has definitely improved, they are now slightly less effective in tool (while still quite spammable due to early availability and starting stone), and more effective in later ages. Bowmen are thereby allowed to retake a slightly more offensive role in Tool Age, but even though they get increased fire rate as well, I see no reason that they should suffer the same train time increase as other archery range units.

Ballistics for all civilizations has my full support. The changes to siege makes ballistics quite necessary.

My biggest objection has to be the increased attack time for Scythes. Scythes suffer enough from the reduction in damage area. The upgrade cost is a pretty big restriction in RM games, and given the option exists, anyone should prioritize HHA upgrade.

About hunting, while the gather rate is higher than foraging, I don't find it to be "the fastest way of gathering food", unless one is Persian of course.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-11-14 04:42 PM ET (US)     465 / 1956       
You misunderstood - increased fire rate is only for Towers (and not incl. Ballista T.) - towers previously had slower fire rate than foot archers, now it's equal. Bowmen don't have any improvements, the only difference from default is that they are 10% slower to train. Slinger changes are +1 atk against CA and HA and reduced bonus attack vs Watch Tower (not other Towers), everything else is default.

About Scythes - I'm not sure HHA is better upgrade - it costs much more and the HA itself is not gold free. But anyway, I'm considering decreasing or removing this change.

Hunting is technically the fastest way to gather food (13% faster and hunters carry 15 food), the rest depends on your skills and luck.

So do you like the siege weapon changes (they are not new but anyway)? And what do you think about Hittite and Greek and also the gold/stone mining balance (it's 10% faster by default, but the technologies no longer give you extreme bonuses)?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-12-2014 @ 07:23 AM).]

Jorchking
Clubman
posted 03-12-14 10:44 AM ET (US)     466 / 1956       
Man, if possible for patch 1.1 to add an upgrade for Camel Rider? The Camel would be a very good unit with this feature, because in Iron age is useless. I don't know, something like Armored Camel Rider, something like that. I want to know if possible to add new units at least.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-12-14 12:07 PM ET (US)     467 / 1956       
It's possible, but entirely out of the scope of UPatch - there will be no new units. Not to mention that someone will have to design this new unit graphics and very few people have ever designed new units even for AOE2. Otherwise I agree that the Camel is not good in Iron, there are many other similar problems (for example no upgrade for Composite Bowman, Axeman, Slinger).
Jorchking
Clubman
posted 03-12-14 03:03 PM ET (US)     468 / 1956       
Yes it's true, and better will be to hope to someone do something like Forgotten empires but for Age of Empires 1, that can improve inteligence of CPU (New AI for 200, 500 population), add new units and civs, etc.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-12-14 03:22 PM ET (US)     469 / 1956       
Not going to happen, Microsoft is not interested in AOE1. If you mean unofficial project, then I already explained about the ai, new civilizations are also not possible (require serious code changes) and the rest is even less likely (new unit designs, etc). It's already a lot that we will have HD resolutions and so many improvements. As you can see I can't find enough people even to discuss the changes.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-12-2014 @ 03:29 PM).]

Jan dc
Clubman
(id: Den cekke)
posted 03-12-14 03:46 PM ET (US)     470 / 1956       
Yeah aoeI is a lot less popular than aoeII and I think few still play it even though it's an awesome game.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-12-14 03:59 PM ET (US)     471 / 1956       
Actually, a lot of players still play AOE1 (even thousands), but that's in China and Vietnam - they are not interested in modding at all (and usually play only version 1.0), most of them don't understand English and visit only local forums. But they have many expert players and even tournaments with prizes.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-12-2014 @ 07:59 PM).]

pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-13-14 01:30 PM ET (US)     472 / 1956       
I would like to help you discussing the changes but I'm an old school single player. And with the ai it's hard to say if the changes are good or bad.
I only can say: good work until now! :-)
I enjoy playing AOE1 and I'm very curious how it will be in HD.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-13-14 03:45 PM ET (US)     473 / 1956       
Oh, my bad then. Still, as I said, there is no reason for bowmen to suffer from increased train time, as they are already quite an underused unit.

While the scythe upgrade might seem better as it offers a great improvement to a non-gold-costing unit, any player in the Iron Age who has the availability should be keeping a substantial number of HA:s already. Upgrading these before upgrading another unit which you don't already use in the same scale should make the most sense to most players.

While hunters have a faster gather rate, you'll have to factor in the time to kill the animal efficiently, that they will generally be expected to walk a longer distance to drop off resources, and the decaying mechanism decreasing the total food amount per gazelle. I don't think a good hunting game could make it more efficient than a foraging start even at the current gather rate.

About siege weapons, I think the changes worked out pretty well. They still do carry quite the punch against other units, but they can no longer mow down entire armies on their own, but are dependent on melee support, which I think is about the effect that we sought after. If anything, I think the catapult series of units may have lost a little too much of it's efficiency against Elephants and infantry groups. I'm not confident what should be done about that though, as I don't think they should be restored to their earlier damage area.

I think the changes to the Hittites were great as well. You have decreased their bonuses, but they still do retain their character from the unmodified game, meaning players in the end won't have to get used to an entirely new playstyle. I'm not sure if the reduction of siege HP was a little too much, but that is mostly a question of fine tuning.

The Greek, I haven't evaluated properly. I'd really like to try and get a DM game going sometime, so I could evaluate the viability of Centurions as a DM unit. They should definitely benefit from the modifications to siege, and if that's enough, they might have become a starting unit of choice for civs like Greece and Sumeria.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

[This message has been edited by Dubstepfisk (edited 03-13-2014 @ 04:08 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-13-14 04:33 PM ET (US)     474 / 1956       
Thanks for the support, pop1989_bb.

The changes to Greeks are a difficult decision. Should I remove\replace these new bonuses or should they stay? I'm mostly concerned about their Bronze Age in Random maps. They remain the weakest civ in Bronze, as Carthaginians and Choson can benefit from some of the other changes. Any ideas for changes or different bonuses are welcome. But keep in mind that I can't add archers or other units to the Greeks.

The better Slingers is not historically inaccurate bonus (check here) for Greeks, but I'm not sure if it's enough and if it will be accepted. The second Academy bonus is an attempt to reduce the gap between Macedonian (which are best) and Greek Academy units.

About the siege vs elephants - there is some disadvantage because of the slower fire rate, but siege weapons now hit slower targets like elephants much easily. Also elephants are slower to train and have decreased damage area (same as with Scythe Chariots).

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-13-2014 @ 04:42 PM).]

pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-14-14 05:21 AM ET (US)     475 / 1956       
one question: In AOE there is the bug, that you can with building a house, barack or something like that remove trees. Do you think it's possible to fix that bug?

[This message has been edited by pop1989_bb (edited 03-14-2014 @ 05:57 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-14-14 05:31 AM ET (US)     476 / 1956       
That's a coincidence. I just fixed 3 forest trees - they can no longer be built on top (the rest are fine). But the lone trees will remain as they are - they shouldn't be an obstacle for buildings. Otherwise to remove them you would need not only to cut them, but also to gather the 75 wood in them.

If you find any other bugs, please report.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-14-2014 @ 05:32 AM).]

pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-18-14 03:56 AM ET (US)     477 / 1956       
That's fine!

How did you change the ressources? Did you search in the exe or dll after the values?
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-18-14 05:16 AM ET (US)     478 / 1956       
Which resources? Versions 1.0.x don't have exe changes, only 1.1 will have. The rest is .dat/.dll changes.
pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-18-14 07:18 AM ET (US)     479 / 1956       
I mean gold, stone etc. How did you change that? Did you use a hex-editor and search for their values?
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-18-14 07:36 AM ET (US)     480 / 1956       
No, I told you, it's .dat editing. If you need information about modding - check the modding section "Siege Workshop" in the main site or "University" section in AOK Heaven main site (more info there).
pop1989_bb
Clubman
posted 03-19-14 03:41 AM ET (US)     481 / 1956       
Thank you.
lazxl
Clubman
posted 03-21-14 09:03 AM ET (US)     482 / 1956       
There are a lot of balance changes in 1.08 (compared to 1.07). I have been able to do some of the tests.

Scythe Chariot
The most noticeable change in 1.08, in my opinion, is the balance changes of Scythe Chariots. In 1.08 a Scythe Chariot no longer defeats a (basic) Cavalry unit or a Camel Rider in a 1-on-1 fight. (And 3 broad swordsmen vs 1 Scythe Chariot win now.) (Ofcourse all other units also do a bit better vs. Scythe Chariots too.).
I'm still positive about the balance change: They won't win 1-on-1, but because they do trample damage they are still good in pairs or groups. An additional (small) benefit to this is, that it keeps Camel Riders and civilisations with only basic Cavalry more useful in the Iron Age.

Slinger
Another important change is that 2 Slingers, that you don't even bother to control, no longer defeat a Watch Tower. 3 Slingers still destroy a Watch Tower easily: 2 Slingers survive.
I have not tested yet if Slingers also do less damage (1 in stead of 1.5) vs the other tower types.

Another Slinger change: +1 damage vs Horse Archers and Charior Archers: The biggest change is that Slingers now perform significantly better vs Horse Archers in the Iron Age before Alchemy (and Tower Shield) is researched. In 1.07 the Horse Archers clearly won. In 1.08 the Slingers win. If the Horse Archers kite the Slingers, the Slingers still have not much of a chance. Even with the buff of Slingers in 1.08 I still don't think that I'd build Slingers as viable Iron Age unit, but okay they are very cheap and they do a bit better now...
I would like to add this: for Slingers to do well vs Chariot Archers it's very important that Slingers keep the damage per shot of Chariot Archers to 1 damage per shot. The Shield upgrades are very important for Slingers. Perhaps you can also consider that instead of the Slingers do 1 bonus damage to CA, that they take 1 less damage from CA, or look at if there are civilisations that have Slingers but not Iron Shield and/or Tower Shield, and see if this is sufficient for these civilisations.

Another remark: the attack animations of War Elephants and Armored Elephants is way out of sync with the actual speed that they do damage.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-14 10:04 AM ET (US)     483 / 1956       
Thank you for the report.

Iron Age improvements on Slinger are without the intention to make Slingers valuable in this age. They are more like side effects (Horse archer +1 atk bonus exists because I decided the bonus to be vs mounted archers, not just vs CA, while Alchemy +2 atk is for foot ranged units).

Slinger don't make less damage vs other towers, except Watch Tower. The other towers are already strong enough vs Slingers, but the W.Towers were terrible.

Scythe Chariots will likely be restored to default, but I haven't decided yet (more opinions will be welcome). You are right that the change makes them more balanced in some situations.
Another remark: the attack animations of War Elephants and Armored Elephants is way out of sync with the actual speed that they do damage.
Yes, that's not surprising, but it's the same for other hand to hand units. There is no point in changing that, because it would mean changing the attack value too (to compensate) and that would be a big mess.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-21-14 11:07 AM ET (US)     484 / 1956       
About Greece, I agree they are currently the weakest RM civ. The slinger bonus is an interesting addition, and coupled with bonus damage against CA's it gets Greek slingers a fighting chance in Bronze.

The academy training time reduction isn't very useful at all. Academy units currently suffer from two things: low mobility and a bad gold/hp ratio. While they're excellent if deployed against other melee units on maps with choke points, they care mowed down too quickly by archers to be useful, and they can be outmaneuvered on open maps such as HC. These are in the end the two problems that need fixing, either with a cost reduction or another stat bonus.

Considering hoplites are often underused, you might even want to consider changing the base unit, instead of just modifying the Greek bonuses.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-14 04:45 PM ET (US)     485 / 1956       
I think I will leave Hoplites as they are, they can still be useful in combination with another unit.

If I remove the new Greek Academy train time bonus, I will have to add something else. I could reduce cost, but that will affect Phalanx and Centurion too (which after Aristocracy are quite fast). May be I could give them free Bronze Shield (this means researched immediately when they enter Bronze for no price). This will improve both Hoplites and Slingers. Any other ideas are welcome.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-21-14 04:53 PM ET (US)     486 / 1956       
Indeed, Academy Units + siege units sounds like something I'd deploy in the field, as they complement each other pretty well. Reminds me of the rea when pikemen were deployed alongside artillery, to protect it from cavalry.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-22-14 04:15 PM ET (US)     487 / 1956       
I have to disagree with you on this. Supposing you will run into archers, deploying hoplites sounds like a bad move. Even though they to provide excellent coverage for own ranged units against any melee attacker, the utter uselessness against opposing archers makes stable units seem more preferable.

But aside from this, the training time change doesn't really do anything for their Bronze game, but it is very useful in DM, where I believe other game changes has already made them a lot more viable.

Free Bronze shield, on the other hand, would do something to change the aforementioned problem, I'm not sure if it is enough, but it seems like a good place to start. Then again, it seems to somewhat mimic the Macedonian bonus.

The other option for improving Greek RM game is economic bonuses, you experimented with giving them cheapened market techs earlier, what happened to that idea?

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-22-14 06:38 PM ET (US)     488 / 1956       
No, I've never included such Market bonus and dropped the idea, because it's hard to implement and may be not worthed. It's true that free Bronze Shield reminds too much about Macedonians. Actually Macedonians in ROR look like fixed Greek.

I currently can't think of any appropriate (and preferably historically justifiable) economic bonus. Feel free to propose any.
Hippox77
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 04:02 AM ET (US)     489 / 1956       
@aoe_scout

Will UPatch fix the music volume slider not working properly? (at least it doesn't work properly in Win7)

I tired out Vooble's HD version, but they didn't fix the slider.

Anyhow, thanks for working on UPatch. I'm personally only interested in bugs fixes and HD, but not balance changes.

[This message has been edited by Hippox77 (edited 03-23-2014 @ 04:20 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 06:22 AM ET (US)     490 / 1956       
I know about it, but I haven't tried to fix it. I have it in mind and I'll see if there is a possible solution.

Bug fixes are also balance changes, because the game have too many and some are quite big. Changes to extreme values (like double hitpoints, +50% speed or +65% fire rate) can also be considered fixes, because such bonuses are illogical and very unrealistic. The real balance changes are few and most are small (Chariot Archer and Cataphract are exception). They just make some civilizations (like the Greeks) playable, but don't change the whole feeling.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-23-14 11:41 AM ET (US)     491 / 1956       
I have to disagree with you on this. Supposing you will run into archers, deploying hoplites sounds like a bad move. Even though they to provide excellent coverage for own ranged units against any melee attacker, the utter uselessness against opposing archers makes stable units seem more preferable.
I never said I'd deploy Hoplites alone, I said I'd deploy them along with siege units. Maybe the archers would tear apart the hoplites alone, but the siege weapons (at least is they have ballistics and a longer range than the archers, as is usually rge case, could crush the archers.
Jorchking
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 02:46 PM ET (US)     492 / 1956       
Man will be possible to add the possibility to play with computers all vs all? I mean 8 players with no teams. This is for single players obviously. And custom music support will be good too.

[This message has been edited by Jorchking (edited 03-23-2014 @ 02:48 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 03:36 PM ET (US)     493 / 1956       
You will be able to use your own mp3-s in the final, that was already discussed. And yes, in the final 1.1 version, the "-" (no team) symbol will mean that computer players are also without team (enemies to everyone).
Jorchking
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 04:54 PM ET (US)     494 / 1956       
Thanks for take your time to reply me.
I will test the current upatch and say you my opinion.
Thanks again. Best regards.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-23-14 05:05 PM ET (US)     495 / 1956       
No problem, those are valid questions (especially the second one).
lazxl
Clubman
posted 03-24-14 04:46 PM ET (US)     496 / 1956       
Greek academy unit suggestions (that resemble neither Macedonians nor Cartaginians):

Instead of -15% train time,

1) lower the unit cost to 50 or 55 f, 35 g.
or
2) further increase their movement speed bonus, so that they'd become slightly faster than foot archers. Would this make them too good?
Optionally increase their line of sight.

In addition to option 1 or 2 you could make Greek Slingers move faster. This will make them more effective.
And you could give their siege units 1 pierce armor.

(I also thought about slightly increasing the movement speed of their siege units so that their speed is closer to their Academy units' speed, but we try to promote their Academy units, not their siege units, so I think that this is not a good idea.)

[This message has been edited by lazxl (edited 03-25-2014 @ 03:34 AM).]

volume
Clubman
posted 03-25-14 05:26 AM ET (US)     497 / 1956       
---- Babylonians:
- Get Chain Mail armor upgrades.

then they should get heavy horse archer

comment: aoe/ror seems to have a key where if a required unit/technology is missing then they dont get the ultimate unit, in this case babylon horse archer (now + chain mail) = have heavy horse archer

---- Hittites:
- Centurion removed.
- Irrigation, Architecture, Metallurgy and Fortified Wall removed.

@aoe_scout i know you say the hittites are overpowered, now note the above since the hittites do have aristocracy (likely they had it), suggest remove phalanx as well or you will have to restore centurion; irrigation can be removed since they werent exactly self-reliant on feeding themselves during the catastrophe of 1200, but their architecture is definitely exists for their abode at hattusas and since they were early iron weapons/iron age, metallurgy would be a key characteristic of them (not like it improves their broadswordsman, now phalanx and light cavalry anyways) but still a key characteristic to be removed, as for fortified wall i guess you could remove that since they are 'too overpowered' balance changes but they sure do have that at hattusas.

summary of recommendations:

---- Babylonians:
- Get Chain Mail armor upgrades.
- Get Heavy Horse Archer (because of the above).

---- Hittites:
- Phalanx and Centurion removed (or restore Centurion).
- Irrigation and (maybe) Fortified Wall removed.

[This message has been edited by volume (edited 03-25-2014 @ 05:51 AM).]

lazxl
Clubman
posted 03-25-14 08:59 AM ET (US)     498 / 1956       
"Phalanx and Centurion removed (or restore Centurion)."
If I had to vote between "Remove Phalanx" and "Restore Centurion", I'd vote for "Remove Phalanx", if Metallurgy is restored.
Hittite have both Phalanxes and Armored Elephants. Do they really need both? I don't think so. Their ranged army, archers with +1 attack bonus and catapults with extra hit points, is already impressive.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-25-14 10:25 AM ET (US)     499 / 1956       
@lazxl: +30% movement speed for Hoplites is already a big number, I can't increase it more (and it's not logical, they have Aristocracy). LOS increase is like Macedonian. But the price reduction is something I'm already considering. I think it could work for Phalanxes and Centurions as they lack Metallurgy (that was my initial concern, Hoplites are OK).
comment: aoe/ror seems to have a key where if a required unit/technology is missing then they dont get the ultimate unit, in this case Babylon horse archer (now + chain mail) = have heavy horse archer
No such thing is true (and shouldn't be) - check the technology trees. I simply wanted an Iron Age improvement for the Babylonians, I don't intend to give them new units.

About Hittites: it doesn't really matter if I will restore Phalanx, as long as Centurion is removed. Assyrian architecture also exists (and it was very impressive in Nineveh), but they lack Architecture in the game. The removed Architecture and Fortified wall make them weaker in defense, which is logical as they are offensive civ in the game. I know about Hittite early iron weapons (which were rather primitive), but that doesn't mean they had the time to develop advanced Metallurgy, only iron weapons. Still, my latest idea is to restore Metallurgy for Hittites and remove Scythe Chariot instead. What do you think? The rest of the changes should stay or I will have to remove something bigger.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-25-2014 @ 10:27 AM).]

lazxl
Clubman
posted 03-26-14 03:12 AM ET (US)     500 / 1956       
"Still, my latest idea is to restore Metallurgy for Hittites and remove Scythe Chariot instead. What do you think?"
You have more knowledge of the ancient civilisations than me, but after looking on 4 different web sites that have info about Hittites, it becomes clear to me that Hittites are known for their chariots. + They are an early-Iron Age civilisation. I would keep the Scythe Chariots as they are in 1.08.

[This message has been edited by lazxl (edited 04-04-2014 @ 03:04 AM).]

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