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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » What is the best Civ. to fight Hittite with??
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Topic Subject:What is the best Civ. to fight Hittite with??
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Octivian
Inactive
posted 03-11-99 05:38 PM ET (US)         
I always have trouble playing against Hittite I usually lose. What is the best civ.
to fight Hittite with?? Also I play deathmatch.



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[b][i]_OctiviaN_[i][b]

[This message has been edited by Octivian (edited 03-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by Octivian (edited 03-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by Octivian (edited 03-11-99).]

AuthorReplies:
FanatiC_FataL
Clubman
posted 03-11-99 05:57 PM ET (US)     1 / 34       
Nobody can beat my Hittite!
LOL!

I think the mest challenger would be Choson.

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FanatiC_FataL A member of the FanatiC Clan.
Irish Knight full of nobility.
members.xoom.com/Irish_Knight/index.htm

Lysimachus
Clubman
posted 03-11-99 06:52 PM ET (US)     2 / 34       
Minoan can definetly handle Hittite, and there are enough people here in this forum to back me on that one. Make sure you handle those 30 composite bowman wisely tho, cuz your only option in beating Hittite is in bronze. Have your composite bowman backed up by atleast 4-5 cavalry sitting around to cut down any Hittite Stone Throwers trying to approach your compys.

There are a lot of stratagies out there dealing with "how to deal with Hittite with Minoan" but I don't have the time to start explaining the details.

Other civs that can deal with Hittite are:

Roman: Attack in tool

Shang: Attack in tool or bronze

Egypt: Attack in in both bronze and Iron, go for Scythe Chariots like mad against their HA's and Scythe. Egyptian Scythes have more HP then any Scythe in the game.

Macedionian: Make sure you definetly attack in bronze, and keep the Hittite economy down with your half price ST's and hoplites. If they get to Iron, you're roast beef.

Sumer: Pretty hard to deal with Hittite with Sumer, but I've seen quite a few successes with sumer. Sumer eventualy will win at sea. Take advantage of your double farm production to make tons of Elephants in Iron. Sumer can afford about twice the amount of eli's then Hittite can (and two sumerian eli's will win one Hittite armored eli. You will also most likely beable to afford the Heavy cat before Hittite, and one sumerian Heavy cat will win to one Hittite plain cat.

Phoenician: maybe, i dunno. At sea phoe will absolutely win.

There are probably ways with some of the other civs, but oooooosssssshhhhh..... I could go on forever.

Hittite are AoE/RoR civs worst enemy....LOL.. whether you believe it or not.

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-11-99 08:00 PM ET (US)     3 / 34       
The best civ defenatly is Egyptian. Ive found this from experience and ive beaten many hittites with egyptian scythes killing their cats and priest converting their escorts that cannot be handled by the scythes (i.e. elephants, elephant archers) This tactic works very well and i use it often. Also if you can get into the hittite town with about 15 scythes it would be very very hard for him to recover, cause those scythes tear up cities pretty fast. Hittite can be beaten by this, but if you run into an expert Hittite player it will be much harder to pull this off.
Cherub Sting
Clubman
posted 03-11-99 09:52 PM ET (US)     4 / 34       
Well for DM its probably choson or roman (roman when the gold gets low, for sure)

But for RM I would say shang is the best. Phoe can handle hittites too...

Octivian
Inactive
posted 03-11-99 09:54 PM ET (US)     5 / 34       
Thanks for the help I am gonna go try Egyptian and Minoan right now thanks and if
you have any more tips on hittite just E-Mail them to me and I'll use them...thanks again and remember.....

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[b]Octivian[b]

Dhamon
Inactive
posted 03-11-99 10:12 PM ET (US)     6 / 34       
in DM, the only three civs which have a chance vs Hittite are Choson, Persia, and Egyptian
Breydel
Clubman
posted 03-11-99 11:03 PM ET (US)     7 / 34       
I'm no DM player but how the hell can post Iron Choson beat post Iron hittite?

Let's see:
Legions? DIE TO SCYTHES
Priests? DIE TO SCYTHES/CATS/HA's
TOWERS? LOL, DIE TO CATS
anything else? nope

I'd say Egyptian, Sumerian and Roman are the best to do it.

------------------

Breydel

"Of all Gaul, the Belgae are the bravest" -Julius Caesar, 58 B.C.

neilkaz
Clubman
posted 03-12-99 01:03 AM ET (US)     8 / 34       
I am no DMer, so I won't mention it. However, from my experience I don't see cho or roman legions dieing that easily to scythes. Cho legions (assuming full upgrades are almost twice as tough(240 vs 137) and inflict 12 damage upon the Hitt scythe which in turn inflicts 10 damage upon the cho legion. It will take a lot of area damage slop over to mow down the cho legion horde with scythe, and this had been the case from my experiences with cho and roman legions. ,, If you have a few of them you die to larger numbers of scythe, however, get 50 of them and spread out and race into town and the scythes can't surround them very well. In addition legions cost 50 res vs scythes 100 and logistic means you can make alot of them. Also the cho or roman may have ballista/heles to shoot what ever scythes come close. My experiences indicate that it is not so easy for the scythe player to trash cho or roman legions.. when that happens it is usally due to insufficient number of legions. Yet in RM I'd still rather have a fully iron Hitt than Rome or Cho !Scythe hurt legions but don't totally dominate them.

To answer the initial question, Shang tears Hitt to shreads until Hitt is in mid iron and can amass a large army of cats/HA's. Hitt has no answer for a Shang slinger rush,not to mention all the early bronze rush options, and the iron rush option which shows the Hitt player what HA's and or scythe can do when he is still in bronze.

Later in iron, Shang is dead to Hcats/HA's.

Regarding Egypt vs Hitt .. no Hitt w/ a brain goes cat EA vs Egypt !Go cat/CA's w/alchemy instead,and if you need more arrow power vs scythes, toss in some HA's and chase the priests w/some ca's. Don't make a single phant vs Egypt unless you have really good priest backup,, and Hitt won't have that !.. neilkaz ..

Dhamon
Inactive
posted 03-12-99 01:15 AM ET (US)     9 / 34       
I am a DM player, and a Hittite one at that, so I know from first expierence of how cho is a match for hittite, Im not saying cho is stronger that hittite, but that it is one of the few civs which stand a chance vs them in DM.

:scythes beat on legions...
hahha nope, cho legions rip up scythes bad, its only till you get unit battles of 30 vs 30 and greater that the scythes begin to win.... and usualy their are more legions than scythes in the battle because legions train faster, and are smaller, so more fit in a given area

hittite, HHA, and AE are the answer to cho legions.... but not scythes

priests do die to HHAs, and scythes, but for the most part they own cats, due to martrydom. cho priests also rip up AEs

Towers do die to cats... but not as bad as cats take down other towers, you would be surprised how far the +2 range can be some times.

those +2 range towers are also great at hiding cho priests, since the towers rip up scythes and HAs.

things can be turned the other way around

how choson beats hittite:

Cats? legions/priests
Towers? legions
HHAs? Towers
Scythes? towers/legions
AE? priests
Cents? priests/towers

As to why rome can not stand up to Hittite in DM, all romes siege, and legions are owned by Hittites cats, with out the choson hp bonus, legions get flattened on route to the cats. This leaves their only usefull unit agaist Hittite cats being the scythe chariot... which in turn is owned by all of Hittites other powerfull units(towers, HHAs, EAs, Cents)

For sumar, just compare their tech trees, you will see sumar is inferior in every usefull aspect.

Catapults - pretty even battle here. Sumars do better vs buildings, and most melee troops, while Hits do better vs cats. Note, if your opponent manages to get melee troops into a pack of sumarian cats, they will destroy each other with friendly fire 3x as fast as Hittites do, since they have half the hps, and 1.5 the fire rate.


Eles - Win for Hittite, Sumar does not get AEs
Towers - win for Hittite, Sumars have one less range
Scythes - Win for Hittite, Sumar does not get metalergy
Cents - Win for Hittite, no metalergy or iron/tower shields for sumar.
HHAs - Win for Hittite, Compared to Hits, Sumars have -1 damage, and -1 range.
EAs - win for Hit... not that they are used often, but sumar does not get em

Economy - win for Hittite. Sumar may have 40 hp villies, and double output farms....but those don't make up for the lack of both craftsmanship and coinage, which is probably the most important tech for DM.


Boats - depends on map... but to be nice will give it to sumar. FGs and 13 range galleys (hit) is a close counter for 9 range triremes and FGs. Smaller maps will give the advantage to Hits, and larger to Sumar...... but then again we are talking land maps here, so who cares about boats.

Priests - win for sumar.... but they still miss to many techs to make them decent, ....when was the last time you saw sumar priests.

swordsmen - win for sumar..... sumar has the dreaded longswordsmen you better run for the hills now.


so the only techs/units that sumar has the advantage... is in units that they won't use 95+ % of the time in DM

Ender
Guest
posted 03-12-99 07:17 AM ET (US)     10 / 34       
Hittite owns minoan in all ages but tool IMO. Egypt can do well against hittite but they certainly aren't the answer to hittite. Choson can beat hittite in post iron and in DM, rome may be able to also not sure, there legions suck compared to Choson against most things. Hittite is the best iron age civ, so hittite is the answer to hittite.

Just to take 1 last look at hittite vs minoan...


Start with the easy one, in iron minoan is owned by hittite, no ifs ands or buts about it. In bronze hittite stone throwers own minoan stone throwers and minoan composite bowmen. Just make sure you back up the stone throwers with some chariot archers to take out any cav the minoan builds. People will tell you minoan composite bowmen aren't killed by stone throwers, well they are wrong, and they are doubly wrong if they say they aren't killed by hittite super buff stone throwers. A group of 10 hittite stone throwers can kill any number of composites that come at you.

[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 03-12-99).]

Staffa
Inactive
posted 03-12-99 08:33 AM ET (US)     11 / 34       
In dm civs that can punish a hittite player are in order, by my opinion

Persian, in a 1v1, their armored elephant rush is very very hard for a hittite to deal with and they can tend to overwelm the hittite player before the hittite can hit critical mass and nail the persian. In team games persian is much weaker cause once the initial rush ends, they blow but 1v1, a well handled persian is stronger then a well handled hittite.

Hittite, all around best civ in dm, 3v3, its the best answer to hittite, in a 1v1, only persian is better, and only if you konw what your doing, otherwise hittite is the best

Choson, almost as good as hittite vs hittite, this civ wins on pure effeciency, being able to field an army much longer then the hittite who will rapidily run out of resources as the choson slowly spreads out along the map and drains the hittite's expensive army, understand that the choson army is dirt cheap, the priests are cheaper, the legions are cheap, they will still be fielding huge armies long after the hittites initial resources disappear. Choson is a very good match for hittite.

Rome, is a joke, romes iron age strength is siege weapons, only a fool and a summerian try to fight hittite with siege. Romes greatest strength(full siege) is a joke against hittite, hittite is the god of siege weapons.

Egyptian, far better then rome, egypt stands a chance, unfortantly the number of units in a dm tends to make the micromanagement of priests abit tough, at 1.0 the fight is close, but I would favor hittite, at 1.5 hittite has a strong advantage, at 2.0 egypt will be slaughtered as the priests die before they realize they are fighting.

Carthage, really cant comment, dont play them, but they are considered a strong dm civ, so some possilbity here

Minoan, im assuming this person meant for non dm, in dm minoan is a joke, vs hittite even more so

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-12-99 09:07 AM ET (US)     12 / 34       
Since Hydarnes is evidently not able to get on-line, I'll be his stunt double.

Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt

WHITE WHITE WHITE

Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt Egypt

Keep your stick on the ice.

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-12-99 07:24 PM ET (US)     13 / 34       
Ender: i understand your an "expert" or something, but whats up with your coninous flauntign as Stone Thowers+Chariot Archers as the END-ALL bronze age army. I mean every thing dies to this army acording to you. and don't say you don't imply this because you have not once, in the myraid of posts of Composite bowmen, minoan vs. hittites, or whatever given an army that in your opnion is capable of crippling this army, yet i know a simple one: Camel Hordes. Camel Riders cost half the Res as STs, are imediatly availbe when you bronze, and are made by a very cheap building called the "stable". say 10 STs with 10 CA behind them are attacked by 28 Camels. This is eqaul resource, and at least eqaul train time, from 2 buildings(2 stables for Camels vs range and Shop for CA+STs)

How do you counter that? at 40 damage per 1.5 seconds, it'll take 4 attacks to kill one cames, which is 6 seconds, which is ample time for the camels to close in on the ST horde. And giving 3-5 deaths due to st rocks striking camels, i'd say that 22 +4 attack can handle 10 CA with +2 range, and 10 STs...

Oh and as for moving STs back to fire on the camels, go ahead kill your CA. ST spalsh damage strikes the 2 tiles behidn the tile where the rock struck, this means your gonna kill your units even faster.

Please come up with soemthing less stale than this old and very weak strat.
One annoyed Elijeh

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quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
Davy the Kid
Inactive
posted 03-12-99 07:31 PM ET (US)     14 / 34       
Death Match Vs. Computer, Stone age start:

Any civ that has cavalrys or camels will do. You will probably be in the same age as the computer. So when you are in bronze age you should use cavs. The computer will only have 3 stone Throwers in his town.

[This message has been edited by Davy the Kid (edited 03-12-99).]

FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 03-13-99 03:39 AM ET (US)     15 / 34       
I just wanna say one thing... in a RM, large no reveal continental map, Shang DEFINATELY owns hittite...

good night, gotta get some sleep.

neilkaz
Clubman
posted 03-13-99 08:34 PM ET (US)     16 / 34       
Elijeh!! I am totally amazed that you would insult Ender like that! When you played a game or two with me last night you sounded very worried about Ender's pending reaction to your insult about "stale old strategy".

Yet a whole day has gone by an you have not edited your post or posted an appology to Ender ! On this message board Ender has been they guy I have learned the most from over the past several months. Among many things, his posts taught me how to make an army and keep expanding my economy all at the same time. I only agree with about 95% of what Ender posts, however, I do not insult him for the 5% I don't agree with.

At the risk of lowering myself to your level here I will only say one more thing.

When you wake up tommorow morning look at your face in the mirror... look deeply into it.. and ask yourself if you can completely respect yourself for your actions the past day. I suspect the answer will be no ! If that is the case, why don't you post an appology, like the fine, but overzealous, young man, I used to think you are.

I am sorry, Elijeh, I told you I'd stay out of this. I was hoping you'd publish a retraction, which you have not, so I must get involved.

Thank You Ender for all that I have learned from you here ... neilkaz ...

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-13-99 09:53 PM ET (US)     17 / 34       
Neil, i'm NOT insulting ender, but his tactic, and his constant allegations that CA+ST is the pan-ultimate-end-all unit combo. ender as a person may be fine, as a player he may be fine, but the tactics he's continouse spit out, have rpovided me with no satisfaction, as i assume an Expert player such as he should be able to map out unit combos better.

But mayeb i'm wrong? Well, i'm not apologizing. i've wanted to burst at ender ever since...well logn time ago...He may have given others valuable input but i've alltogether found his statements fairly hollow.

But any player that can asemble around 2k res worth of bronze units by the 17-18 minute mark., is a damn good player. Sorry to offend ya, but i'm not gonna apoligize, and then again ender hasn't replied to this, so coudl it be he dosn't care?

And neil. If you actulyl knew me then u'd knmow i don't care how someones opinion of me is. I only respect 3 peoples opions in this world enough to change: My mom, God, and myself. Sorry that i don't really care if your gonna hate my guts about this.

------------------

quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 03-13-99 10:09 PM ET (US)     18 / 34       
You can kill that army with a little Camel... simly get a palmy camel and dance with him...

sorry, i am gonna stay out of this

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 03-22-99 06:35 PM ET (US)     19 / 34       
GOOD one Thorfinn! But what made you think that I can't get on? the reason why I havn't been on in a while, is because I've been really busy.

Egypt is the best counter vs Hittite.

Bolshi_Basci
Inactive
posted 03-23-99 01:16 PM ET (US)     20 / 34       
Like Neilkaz, I think you need to be very careful about flaming Ender in any way.
Three points:
Firstly Ender is the premier expert posting on this forum. Staffa is as good a player but he does not specialise in team games as most of use forummers and Ender do. If he simply walks away from the forum in disgust then we all lose out.
Secondly the thread is about Minoan vs Hittite and the premise is the Minoan comes at the Hittite with a compie hoard and maybe a few cav to back it up. Under these circumstances Ender's point applies and is valid. I'm sure that if the threat appeared to be camels not compies the ca to st ratio would change significantly.
Thirdly I am a great one for advocating the settling of these disputes on the battlefield. But in this case I will spare you the trouble. I have played you both and suffice it to say that Ender is better and I hesitate to quantify just how much better.
NoSoup4U
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 11:13 AM ET (US)     21 / 34       
Bolshi,

This whole anonymity thing of yours is really starting to get under my skin!

I'm sure we have played but I wish I knew who you were!

Knight_Night
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 11:55 AM ET (US)     22 / 34       
Hmmm... Hittite vs Minoes Hittite win hands down? NO...only early and late in the game will that ever happen. Im gonna have twice as many boats as you so youd better not bring your units by the water. Why? because you need your wood for CA's and stoners and then to get boats on top of that? Im gonna have the economy to have lots of ranges pumpin out Compies, a whak of compies vs a whak of hittite CA's is still no match...even with nobility. Range gives the biggest edge over all other range units. Also, compies size is small, tied in with their range, allows them all to shoot at the oncoming units without forcing themselves to make "the circle of doom" because they cant attack. Half of your CA's will be running around dying CA's trying to get within range. In the end the minoan has lost a few and has a bunch of hurt ones, while the Hittite has lost its army. And so what if you have stoners as back up..there only gonna be there for 2 secs.

Minoan own all from about 17-28 mins..then they fall to Hittite or Sumer Cats. Cause Minoes are all range, and what kills range better than the best range in the game.

Knight_Night
aka. _RCF_Night
aka. MiC_Key_Mouse

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 12:57 PM ET (US)     23 / 34       
There's in 1 thing I would like to express in regards of being an expert in something, could it be AoE, RoR, chess or flower picking. Here it goes:

An expert understand the game better than the vast majority of people and knows almost all details of the game. Sometimes, an expert can make an inferior statement (like saying this chess variation will lead to a win for white) and still validate it on the field against weaker players. But the fact he backed up his statement on the terrain against weaker players does not make his inferior statement true. A very good player might still loose to an expert but might also be able to recognise when the expert's speech is corrupted. As a chess expert, I can make 5 passives moves in a row and still win the game against all of you guys, does that make my 5 passives moves to be good ones?? NO! They are just not bad. It's the same thing in AoE/RoR.

Ender
You said in my "minoan thread" that SC were "dirt cheap" and they would kill compies. I am bringing back this as an illustration of the point I want to go to.
First, SC are not dirt cheap, they require a costly upgrade and still cost 100 ressources to produce. You might still kick my butt in a game but I can still recognise a false statement. Also, my personnal experience showed me that compies can cream SC...

Here's my point
You stop progressing or start to regress at something when you are not objective anymore and still able to validate your wrong statement on the battlefield because of your superiors skills. Being an expert is a responsibility when you tell everybody you are one. You have to be right 100% of the time and do not make general statements that are false under some circumstances, you have to be systematical in your arguementation...

If any of you does not agree with this, come to Knight chess room, I will play the most passive opening a player could play (Philidor defense with black) and will kick you bad in an additionnal 15 moves that I would have normally taken... But I agree, Philidor's defense is passive

Expert_Phil (chess of course)

[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 03-24-99).]

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 09:01 PM ET (US)     24 / 34       
Octavian, try this, switch to RMs and get good at em. Then play egyptian against Hittite, you will find that they are a Hittites greatest fear. I love killing(or converting) hittite cats. 'Egyptian Heavy Cat' I like the sound of that . It takes a lot and i mean A LOT of time and things for the hittite to be able to constantly turn back egyptian. His town much be walled in and towered up, with archers and cats behind the walls, he must have LOTS of escorts for his cats and his own scythes to kill priest, and in a team game he must also worry about the egyptians partners trying to pull a fast one on his town. Egyptian Philosophy, sends loads of scythes to kill cats while priest sit back and convert escorts to further kill the Hittite army. It takes a while for the Hittite player to realize the threat of the priest target his cats on them, while telling his escorts to kill the scythes, hard to micromanage while the egyptian sits back and watches wood fall apart and elephants decide to join the egyptian cause . If the egyptian looses his army, he'll be right back with another one or two either killing your army or your town, unless you towered up extremely well. Something to think about, egyptian can own hittite badly, its so fun to play them against hittite, even if you do lose once in a while Got to go, adios amigos

------------------
The Who

Bolshi_Basci
Inactive
posted 03-25-99 09:01 AM ET (US)     25 / 34       
NoSoup4u,
sure we have played, I live in fear of your tool rushes cos that hits me where it hurts. But I am getting better at tool combat. If I were playing you in a slow civ game I would favour Sumerian over Hittite, how's that for a mark of respect !
I am anonymous so as not to bring disgrace upon my clan.

Back to the thread. Minoan own Hittite from 17-28 minutes, Minoan compies mean Hittite ST last two seconds? What all 10 of them last 2 seconds? The CA are not there to engage the compies they are there to defend the ST against cav or cam. I agree compies own chariots.
I am a firm believer that Hittite wg own bronze seas against all but the fastest fleet assemblers.
17-28 minutes. If I'm fighting Minoan with Hittite I would prefer to be bronze for as short a time as possible. I may have to defend but it ain't gonna be until 28 minutes , I might as well resign. Ender can overwhelm the Minoan in bronze with Hittite, i prefer to do it easily in iron.
Remember we are talking Ender here, if he can iron in 17 minutes with Minoan he can probably do it with Hittite in 18-19 minutes the advantage ain't that great. Hittite cats even before engineering own Minoan compies. Surely you've seen it, its ugly!

Why some of the angels dont just repost aold thread I dont know

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