Lets just say I'm quite happy that I've learned my lessons with the game industry and not bought this yet.

They're making AOE2 DE now? I was completely unaware of that.

As for AOE-DE, I still haven't purchased it yet for a couple of reasons: I'm still using Windows 7 and I've read here that AOE: DE had a few bugs to be addressed. It's sad to see that they apparently haven't fixed those after a considerable amount of time and I don't understand why Microsoft would abandon support for this game so soon. Wasn't AOE: DE supposed to be the flagship product to promote their Microsoft Store platform?

[This message has been edited by Ris1ng (edited 05-25-2018 @ 10:56 AM).]

The character of the devs involved speaks for itself...I guess the community can see whats going on for themselves too. Hope no one is getting their hopes up for what AoE2 DE brings...at this point I am too tired to even get angry anymore about it.

You would expect them to try a bit harder with these re-releases, in hopes of hyping up aoe4, of which to my knowledge we still no nothing.

I expect a re-release like this to
- Not introduce new bugs (from what I hear so far, not the case yet)
- Run well on modern computers and resolutions
- Fix bugs that were never really addressed in the original
- Make some improvements to meet more modern standards in terms of UI and convenience things (they did do a bit of that)
- Be able to run on every pc, on whatever platform you want (only running on windows 10 and through the terrible windows store is a massive violation of that principle. Unless they release through GOG/Steam as well in near future and allow windows 7 support as well.)
- Have at least the same degree of modding oppurtunity as the original and even better if they learned from bethesda and CDPR and just released some official tools. (once again, windows store ruins it)

If I'm honest, I wasn't expecting much from DE, but I was at least somewhat interested in AoE4, this isn't helping that in the slightest. And I think it is mostly microsoft ruining it. They never understood or cared for pc gaming. They kept their highest profile game, Halo, away from pc, going as far as releasing the first 2 on pc, the 2nd ending on a cliffhanger and then making the 3rd xbox exclusive. They messed up big time with games for windows live and even more with how they terminated it. And now they somehow want to push windows store. Not much of a welcome back to pc gamers from microsoft.

Yeah, I expected that the Forgotten Empires team would deliver something amazing as they did with the Aoe 2 HD expansions.

But Microsoft probably forced them to stop working on Aoe DE, which to me sucks big time. Aoe 1 has always been my favorite and Aoe DE has SO much potential, yet it seemed like it was released as a late beta with incomplete features, and then abandoned.

If you guys have questions you could ask them in the FE streams.

https://www.twitch.tv/ForgottenEmpires

- Not introduce new bugs (from what I hear so far, not the case yet)

Bugs always exist in complex software, but yeah, they should have paid more attention to those. Even if their vision for AOE: DE was simply "AOE, but with more detailed graphics", one expects at least a similar feature set compared to the original and a stable product.

They never understood or cared for pc gaming. They kept their highest profile game, Halo, away from pc, going as far as releasing the first 2 on pc, the 2nd ending on a cliffhanger and then making the 3rd xbox exclusive. They messed up big time with games for windows live and even more with how they terminated it. And now they somehow want to push windows store. Not much of a welcome back to pc gamers from microsoft.

I completely forgot that GFWL existed, that was totally wiped from my memory. :P But yeah, since Windows is already the major OS platform, it's not like they need to support the PC market by promoting it as a gaming platform as they did back in the 90's.

Still, it's a big mistake from their part if they are seriously trying to promote Microsoft Store as an alternative to Steam or GoG. Users are not gonna switch to a platform that poorly supports their games.

[This message has been edited by Ris1ng (edited 05-26-2018 @ 07:49 PM).]

This is my personal opinion, so don't take anything too seriously.

I don't think M$ is forcing anyone out of anything, but I suspect it is not providing the funds the team deserves. FE is, I think, a bit too small to do everything but I do feel they should have left at least a 'skeleton' staff for AoE.

It is ironic how history repeats itself. For M$ and for "AoE" fans only one game really deserves time, because is the big cashmaker: AoK (the streetfigher 2, the Assassin's creed 2, the team fortress 2 of RTS but for me Altaïr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ezio). Make all sorts of skins for AoK and people will love them. Try to deviate from being a carbon copy of AoK and people's excitement will be diminished. AoE is always just a testing ground for the real deal.

I would even bet that if the remake of AoK would be sold in the M$ store only, the steam fans would be significantly less vocal about how M$ store sucks and many more (not all, tho, maybe) would buy it. But we will see when AoK DE is out. Maybe I am wrong.

I still love AoE DE. If I had more free time I'd play more! But time is really, really limiting here. Now I see why all previous staff members disappeared when they said "I won't have time".

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 05-27-2018 @ 12:12 PM).]

You're right, Suppiluliuma. Game developers only like to focus on what makes money, ignoring the true stars of their series. AC1 is better than any AC game I played after; the progressively worse quality stopped me at AC4, after that I had no interest in AC. AoK added more content while subtley changing the things that made AOE good; more content made people more interested. I don't care what others think, I hate AOK; I'd sooner play AOE3. Units on AOK don't listen well and the AI give up too easily.

There is that really annoying trend in PC game industry that yout are forced to platforms like Steam, Origin, etc...

Where you are not able anymore to install games being offline, to make .iso out of your original CDs (which I keep in my shelves; I always install AoE Collector's Edition form .iso), etc....

I only buy games at those platforms if there is no alternative (such as Half-Life 2 on Steam). Therefore I am a big fan of gog.com where there is no copy protection etc.

There is one thing which I consider as a compensation for those limitations: updates for old games if problems with new PCs surface (like video errors in RoR with Win7). Regarding that, Steam ist the model for good support. I am assured that Half-Life 1 works on my new ThinkPad with Win10 without any bugs/video errors/other problems.
On the other hand, Origin does totally suck at it (you always have to fix the old Command & Conquer games by yourself with community patches). I wouldn't have bought the CnC series on Origin if I handn't the opportunity to get a code very cheap.

And now - reading the complaints here - I conclude:

THIS IS WHY I WILL NOT BUY THE DEFINITIVE EDITION. I'd get all the limitations and no support for a price which is not appropriate for earlier mentioned things.

If you guys have questions you could ask them in the FE streams

I would if the chat worked properly, which is very broken at the moment and needs a fix asap. Maybe you could clarify a few things up for us? Or are you not allowed to? Are any of you (team FE) for that matter (contract/policy-wise)? I am asking because I can't believe FE are leaving us in the dust without saying a thing, while you guys are obviously aware of this bad situation.

It's pretty obvious this abandoning decision has been made by MS in any case. It is a major mistake and will result in a massive loss of sales/profit for future AOE related products. As much as I appreciate FE's hard work turning this game into something fresh and updated, I will not purchase any future DE iterations because of this maddening poor decisions.

That being said, the game is not all bad. On the contrary, it has quite a few pluses to consider as well - The graphics are amazing and the redone music is awesome. Indeed some welcome quality of life improvements, like auto gathering villagers. I do believe they made a few enhancements to both the AI and pathing as well, but it still is cumbersome to say the least.

I like it for what it is, but I am missing so many things that could have made AoE DE excellent and worthy of it's name.

[This message has been edited by PhatFish (edited 06-03-2018 @ 06:10 AM).]

I don't hate AoK, but it is definitively the least favourite of the series, thanks mostly to fanboys.

I find it annoying how people think that is the definitive Age of Empires, while the rest of the series is considered subpar.

Quoted from Phatfish:

It is a major mistake and will result in a massive loss of sales/profit for future AOE related products.

I do not agree completely with that statement. I think having more support would reduce the negative backlash, but I think what has hurt the sales the most and will continue to do so, is the Windows store exclusivity and maybe, just maybe, that the fans expected an AoE2 with an AoE1 skin.

Also I do think that the AoE2 fanboys will save the DE series. People love AoE2 way too much xD It is ironic how the main reason that causes me annoyance will be responsible of keeping the series out of the grave xD. But we will see. This is just an uninformed opinion, and I could well be wrong!.

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 06-03-2018 @ 09:01 AM).]

I could never really get into AoK like I did AoE1 and AoE3, however if it's the AoK fans that resurrect this series then I'll take it. I just hope they learn their lesson from AoE-DE and release on Steam in future, with more patches.

I think what has hurt the sales the most and will continue to do so, is the Windows store exclusivity and maybe, just maybe, that the fans expected an AoE2 with an AoE1 skin.

Yes the store exclusivity has hurt sales for sure and will continue with AoE2 DE if they don't change the plan.

As for AoE2 expectations, I also for sure expected at least some features to be ported over (like map copy, I never wanted gates or formations however), but not a reskin. AoE2 DE is in development anyway, which I won't buy because of the non-existent support after release of AoE DE (and AoM EE...), even though I love AoK too.

[This message has been edited by PhatFish (edited 07-03-2018 @ 03:44 PM).]

Also I do think that the AoE2 fanboys will save the DE series. People love AoE2 way too much xD It is ironic how the main reason that causes me annoyance will be responsible of keeping the series out of the grave xD. But we will see. This is just an uninformed opinion, and I could well be wrong!.

I dont think I'm a fanboy even though I have done some AoE3\AoM bashin. However if AOE2 DE is as bad as this AOE DE and the initial release of AoE2 HD yet it succeeds simply because of fanboys blindly buying it I will be foaming at the mouth in rage! I really hope we dont just bend over and take it from MS again, and hopefully if AoE2 DE fails it will send a message that AoE4 needs to be QUALITY. Honestly I am hoping at this point it does fail just to maybe wake somebody up that they need to make a really good game to succeed, not just phone it in. Most likely we will get a mobile-game-level cash grab however.

I would like to see an AoE1 using the AoK engine, but I've noticed this aggravates some AoE1 fans a great deal as they think it would ruin the feeling of the game. I would try to modify the game to feel as similar as possible, possibly even removing formations, and hopefully keeping the much improved pathfinding, ease of life improvements etc

I worked on Age DE, on multiplayer, pathing/movement, some of the graphics (like the water, AA, bloom), performance optimization, and out of syncs. The product had a lot of unexpected birthing pains and was several months late. The project was a lot more complex than anyone thought. I believe FE would love to keep updating the game, but unless the work gets funded nothing can really happen.

-Rich Geldreich

'bout time we got a clear answer, thank you.

We are all at the mercy of MS

As I said. In any case, thanks for the info.

I do feel M$ SHOULD found at least a skeletal staff to keep updating the game and solving issues. Hell, I remember aoe_scout singlehandedly solved several issues as he worked in the UPatch.

AoK DE will do well, I am fully confident. Look at how AoK did (and does) in steam. FE may only need to update the graphics. All the rest could remain exactly the same as the original AoK and "Age of Empires" (read AoK, they make like 85% of the Age of Empires fans anyways) fans will love it.

Surely at least a skeleton crew MUST be assigned to provide updates and fixes - the most prevalent issue being the chat one which should be repaired immidiately.

Aside from a somewhat improved multiplayer experience, little was done to finish the rest of DE during the delay time. Nothing happened when the fanbase screamed for exactly the above after DE's release the last months. Nothing happened when we asked for modding capabilities to fix the game ourselves.

Which won't happen because of no funding.

FE should have anticipated on these issues in advance much, much more. With FE having a lot of experience with previous remakes, I find it strange why there were so many problems now.

What bothers me most is the utter carelessness from MS on one of it's top game series. A cash grab, nothing more.

This is not how you treat your loyal fanbase and customers or your development team. MS won't get a penny from me anymore.

DE is dead.

In fact they improve the graphics on this game but not the ai nor they fix the very old bugs that UP did and they did not add new civs to this

[This message has been edited by naboofighter (edited 07-02-2018 @ 04:53 AM).]

Yes, The game is dead, they will not be updating this anymore form what I hear, that's quite sad, personally it will be the last aoe of any kind that I buy I think now. I don't trust them to do a good game from this point lol.

> Surely at least a skeleton crew MUST be assigned to provide updates and fixes - the most prevalent issue being the chat one which should be repaired immediately.

AFAIK, nobody's working on this product at the moment. That's why the chat bug (which is probably like <1 day of work) still remains unfixed.

> What bothers me most is the utter carelessness from MS on one of it's top game series. A cash grab, nothing more.
> This is not how you treat your loyal fanbase and customers or your development team. MS won't get a penny from me anymore.

I really don't believe it was a cash grab. I suspect MS has lost money on DE. I think they intended to reinvent the franchise and Age DE was seen (at first) as a quick and easy way to do that. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a lot harder and more complex than anyone expected.

It's pretty obvious that damage is being done to the franchise here by MS not maintaining DE.

[This message has been edited by sulphuric99 (edited 07-02-2018 @ 12:35 PM).]

I find it amazing a mega corporation with 130 billion dollars in liquid cash reserves cannot properly fund a game project based on revitalizing one of their most successful gaming franchises at that time

Rich, thank you for being the only one with guts to talk about this.
Why do u think M$ shoot themselves in the foot by making this game an UWP app only to Win10?
It didnt came to mind that remaking an 20 year old game, ppl still playing it use an old OS?
Ton of ppl single handedly avoided the game cause they needed to update to win10.
Also, this decision affected other platforms(As UWP apps are not supported), which would give more sales like steam or GOG.
They could still promote the windows store by selling the game the actual price is now, and sell on other places more expensive, so ppl will go for the low price.
That being said, you think M$ will review this exclusivity decision and maybe release the future games on mutiple platforms?
Also, you guys didnt consider using aoe2 engine to make this game? i know pathing and stuff needed to be changed to more aoe1 style(remove formations), but most features wouldnt have to be made from the ground up, like tech trees, networking, map sharing, lobby related work, spectator mode, replay system and more?

cannot properly fund

More like unwilling. Focus is on AoK DE now, and AoE3 DE.

While using AoK's updated genie engine for AoE DE may seem like a smart move, the game would be too similar to AoK. Programming it to behave near AoE-like would probably be very tedious at best. Backwards compability - though it is pretty horrid in DE's current state - would have been a deal breaker for many fans if omitted.

[This message has been edited by PhatFish (edited 07-03-2018 @ 03:32 PM).]