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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Worst civ
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Topic Subject:Worst civ
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Peacemaker
Clubman
posted 02-16-99 03:18 PM ET (US)         
Which are the worst civs?


AuthorReplies:
Sting
Clubman
posted 02-16-99 04:37 PM ET (US)     1 / 48       
greeks are the worst civ. Carthage is probably second, all the other civs are somewhat playable, altho I dont like persia.


"Being a Hero is over-rated" -Vegeta

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 02-16-99 06:02 PM ET (US)     2 / 48       
Greek is.


He who has the last peon standing, wins!

Jehu
Inactive
posted 02-16-99 10:41 PM ET (US)     3 / 48       
I think you can add Yam to your list of crappy civs. They are the opposite of Greek; pretty good early, but suck more an more as the game goes on. With the popularity of gigantic maps and booming in team games it is very hard to kill off or totally uproot an opponent in early bronze. But that is still when Yam is at its best IMHO.

Sure, Yam can field a potent force of cavs, compies, a few hoppers for camels, and some STs. But with camels all over the battle field Yam's miltary bonus is significantly reduced in effectiveness. As iron appraoches, the Yam becomes a bit player relying on more powerful allies while hopefully contributing some HAs and Cataphracts (who uses them anymore?) to the fight.

Go ahead, flame away.


PrinceBolkonsky
Inactive
posted 02-16-99 10:58 PM ET (US)     4 / 48       
Hi all.

My personal choice for worst civ would be Carthage, as they are just wretched against any civilization that gets decent priests. Both Carthage and Greece blow until the Iron Age, but at least in Iron Greece gets fully upgradeable seige.

As for Yamato, Jehu, I respectfully disagree. In 3v3 games on water maps they are quite the complementary civilization. I find them useful at making their heavy attack in bronze with Compys/STs or Massed Cavalry, and then using HAs as an auxiliary force in Iron to augment their allies' forces. Also, they have great ships and can assume a large portion of the sea battling in Iron.

Besides, most games are decided during the Bronze age anyway, when Yam is at it's zenith.

Certainly they aren't the power they were in Age, but I would put them in the top half of ROR civs.

-- PrinceBolkonsky


Ender
Guest
posted 02-17-99 08:16 AM ET (US)     5 / 48       
Probably greek, though in a team game it could be persia.


Jehu
Inactive
posted 02-17-99 09:09 AM ET (US)     6 / 48       
Prince

You are certainly welcomed to disagree with me about Yam. But I see them as a poor imitation of Minoan in bronze that craps out in iron. I don't think they are the crapiest civ but I have them in my bottom half now in team games where games tend to go deep into iron against decent competition. You could make a case for greek in team games if his allies give him enough protection to survive the early bronze CA attacks. Once in iron, greek gets very tough. My strat for greek would be to aim for a mid 20s iron time with about 10 STs, 10 cavs, and some hoppers in bronze primarily as a defensive force. That type of force could also be used offensively in a joint attack. This is doable in a 3v3 especially as the middle ally, although greek is NEVER my choice.

I agree with you about Yam taking the seas in team games on watery maps. That should be their main focus in iron along with their auxiliary role with HAs.


Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 02-17-99 09:26 AM ET (US)     7 / 48       
I dunno about Carthage,in a 3v3 island game they could be the one who wins it for ya if ya keep em protected.


Bolshi_Basci
Inactive
posted 02-17-99 09:46 AM ET (US)     8 / 48       
Yam are not so bad on a wet map. Yam have possibly the best iron age navy. The HPs make a huge difference. They have a great economy so they can build them like nobodies business. Forget CAV they suck. Use Tri to dominate the edge of the map, use them to defend every river crossing. Build masses of HHA and keep them on the move. If you face massed cats you got big problems. Maybe its time for some cav but I think you are in trouble.
So if you get them in random civ, don't despair until after you look what the oppostion has got.

Personally Choson are #1 on my *****civ list.


MacRat
Clubman
posted 02-17-99 10:14 AM ET (US)     9 / 48       
Worst Civ?

Any Civ I'm playing.

MR


Ender
Guest
posted 02-17-99 12:30 PM ET (US)     10 / 48       
it physically pains me to see someone put Choson as worst civ, the towers and priets alone are good enough to win a game for you. Add in the best unit in the game, the legion and if you make iron you win.

reason greek is bad is because they truly are the poor mans minoan, Minoan gets everything greek does except the good towers and close to good priests, but they also get cheap boats and good composite bowmen.


Yamato is highly underrated in ROR, they are only an average civ though, I certainly wouldn't be afraid if an enemy got them in a random game, I wouldn't be worried if I got them either though.


mrfixit
Clubman
posted 02-17-99 12:40 PM ET (US)     11 / 48       
Wow, man, Yam is not the worst civ of the bunch! I agree that in LATE IRON they start to stink on ice vs Heles and Scythes.

However, they are quick to bronze, and cav/compie combo is not terrible!, and their HAs are awesome.

For worst civ, I would say Palm. I actually love them IF I make it to bronze untouched, but they are just TOO WEAK until then. Lose 4-5 peons before bronze to a scout rush, just resign and be done with it.

Greek stink too due to being a slow civ and having no good archer units. Persia sucks due to iron economy.



Mr.Fixit
http://virtualnj.com/mrfixit

Chanchito
Inactive
posted 02-17-99 02:27 PM ET (US)     12 / 48       
I would say Choson and Carthage. Choson players have a wall and tower mentality. (not all, but a lot of them do) This tends to get your teammates killed. Carthage is very slow and also has the same problem. Greece is in the same ballpark, but for some reason I have had some success with them. Yam and Palmy are next on my list. Palmy requires a good starting location or your dead. So 30% of your games are over before they start. Camels with armor upgrades still kill Cav with attack and armor upgrades. SO yam is average in bronze and it goes downhill from there. They do have a good scout rush, but a few walls stops that.


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 02-17-99 03:15 PM ET (US)     13 / 48       
The civ I most hate to get in a random civ game is definantly choson. With Greek/Carthage I can atleast put together a good offense. With Greek I use hoppers + slingers or hoppers + cav. With Carthage I go camels.

I also prefer greek/carthage to choson in iron. With greek I use cats/hellies and with carthage I use ellies/hellies. Greek/Carthage are also much better then choson on the sea.

My main gripe with choson is that you have to play very defensivly until very late in the game. Thats not easy to do versus even average players.

[This message has been edited by Emowilli (edited 02-17-99).]

Bastyrdus I
Inactive
posted 02-18-99 04:12 AM ET (US)     14 / 48       
Greek's juss nasty! - Heard on Jerry Springer

BTW, I think Carthy is is a little underrated. They are one of the better tactical support civs in the game. 200HP Hoppies are nothing to shake a stick (or a sword) at. Neither are 750HP ele's. They are also one of the few civs that get fire galleys (yeah I know, "so what?")AND triremes. On watery maps... Carthy landing = SPLAT!


-Bastyrdus I
"THAT F'N BASTARD!"

[This message has been edited by Bastyrdus I (edited 02-18-99).]

Ender
Guest
posted 02-18-99 07:27 AM ET (US)     15 / 48       
if you are winning using hoplites and slingers with greek, you should be crushing people with broadswordsman and slingers with choson, Greek hoplites still slower than broadswordsman, and barely kill things faster , since you should have twice as many broads as hoppers. I think people just don't know how to play choson, thats why they get such a bad rep.


Rikk
Inactive
posted 02-18-99 07:40 AM ET (US)     16 / 48       
When my friends and I play on random, groans can always be heard by the people who got Choson. I mean yeah, they have +2 tower range, but that's useless against catapults (which Choson don't get). They have full priests, which are useless against chariots (which they don't get). They have Cataphracts, but they don't get all the upgrades. They get good barracks units, which are pointless against cats or arrows. Not to mention the minute all the gold on the map is gone, they are basically doomed.
Basically if they don't convert some GOOD units, they don't last long.

-Rikk


Indigo
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 08:34 AM ET (US)     17 / 48       
Choson a bad civ? i beg to differ.. obviously those of you who say they suck basically never tried them before. The +2 tower range does matter, especially against civs that don't get any good siege, or have to use hand to hand units as their main force. True, it may not matter much early on, but it has great defensive implications.

For instance, try taking out a choson in bronze who has walled in, built sts to defend his area, churned out some 85 gold priests, and has a decent fleet to ward off naval attacks. Then add the +2 range towers and you can see how well they can defend themselves during bronze. They won't be on the offensive, but they will have a nicely secured area, and make attackers have such a tough time breaking through the defense that they will give up.

Then, once they get to iron, they can churn out longswordsmen, HA, ballistas and hcav (as auxillary units) to go on the offensive. They get those 15 gold legions, which is by far the greatest value for any gold-requiring hand to hand unit. They can churn out around 20-30 of them, and queue up to 20 more, so once one force is defeated, another is already being rolled out. I've defeated hittites with a choson fortress and skillful use of their legions and HA's. and since they save up so much gold, they can still fight once the scythes roll in, with heles, and priests to heal legions.

As for griping about playing defensively, whats so bad about that? as long as you keep tabs on the gold on stone on the map, via scouts, you can tower them up, which will slow down the enemy enough for u to get to iron and start exploting the map yourself. CA's don't stand half a chance vs towers, camels are extrmely weak vs towers as well, and you can always use cav to wipe out sts. Chances are your opponent doesn't think you're gonna bother building an army at all, so he will completely overlook any chance of you building cavs.

Worst civ? persian. I think they're worse than greece, since the greeks get a good economy. Has anybody noticed how finely balanced the greeks are against a persian enemy?


Spam
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 08:53 AM ET (US)     18 / 48       
I would normally answer Greek to this question, but I'm starting to lean towards Persia or Carthage these days. With Greek you at least have a nice-ish iron to look forward to. Actually, Greek can often defeat Minoa in iron (if they can get there) since they usually haven't spent thousands of resources on compies. What are the prospects for Persia and Carthage in a non-DM game? Not good, I say. Both can produce powerful armies, especially Carthage, but the economy required to do it is very rarely available in a random game.

My 2 cents

Spam


Shang_villager
Inactive
posted 02-18-99 09:09 AM ET (US)     19 / 48       
Greek


Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 09:44 AM ET (US)     20 / 48       
In Order of How Bad They Stink.

Land
Stone almy
Tool almy
Bronze:Greek,Choson,Carthage,You can think of other civs I bet
Iron:Yamato,In units terms Shang but who gets to use those units first?Last I would say Assy.

Water
Stone almy
Tool almy
Bronze ersia(Less Range,more hurt,but don't worry,it will get ALL better in Iron)
Iron:Choson(Better pray those towers can keep him away from land,cus he just burnt your fishing fleet and navy),No Fire Galley?Move to the front of the pack,no alchemy?Get behind choson,Maceadonian.


-Cherub Desert R


epic_hoplite
Inactive
posted 02-18-99 09:58 AM ET (US)     21 / 48       
I beg your pardon? Choson is the worst civ? NO WAY!!!

For why Choson is not THE WORST, see Ender and Indigo's posts.

I just want to point out one thing: playing Choson right requires tons of skill. That's why only experts players like Ender and Indigo can bring Choson to its full strength.

On the other hand, archer/cat/helio civs require less skill. Their army is easy to control. The strategy is relatively simple. No wonder a newbie's first love is most likely a CA civ or Minoa.

Try Choson when you are bored with the CA/Cat stuff. Choson is not the best civ, but very fun to play.


Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 11:32 AM ET (US)     22 / 48       
Greek is the worst civ, Ya i know i was the starter of the Dreaded "anti-Greek superstar" thread but i've learnt that they suck. Hell Carthage is at least decent in bronze, while Cho can hold its own in bronze with Impies, Priests and STs, then comse that early iron which means killerLegions left and right! I mean a chosoner who booms to iron in 25 minutes is the meanest thing out there, he Has HAs for the time untill his swords are researched, while having Swordsmen who rule!

Also Greeces hoplites actully are about the same speed i believe. Let me check MR. Fixits unit sheets(tm?). Yup Greek hoplites move as fast as normal foot units.

And persias early Economy rules! Their useful, if not awasome for a tool rush or a bronze rush. Also if they make iron they can do some damage.

Carthage, never underestimate their Early Army, Camels, hoppers, and Imps make a downright useful army, and in iron they Got HA, Eles, eles archer, and heles.


KaBaN the Great
Inactive
posted 02-18-99 04:13 PM ET (US)     23 / 48       
There is not a worst civ in RoR!

Greeks, Persia, and Carth are all very good in DM's. They are the ultimate rush power and anti-choson weapon. He never said it was just RM. He said "Which are the worst civs?". IMO there is not a worst civ, Yamato is very well used on 1v1 Conti or Narrows map. Greeks and Carthage can be effectively used on Large Islands RM and DM. Persia is good on Gigantic Hill Country maps, especially if you have a Egypy/Hittite ally.

Palmy is also a good civ if you know how to use it right, those fast camels are very fun . MrFixit, you tooled with Palmy at 5:40 and Methos did at 5:15.. how many vills?

So every single civ can be used very good, and with a lot of fun. Like somebody in this forum said before, i much rather win with Greeks then with Shang


Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 04:29 PM ET (US)     24 / 48       
I didnt say choson are worst,they just get it rather rough in the bronze age,thats all.


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 06:29 PM ET (US)     25 / 48       
IMO Palmy, Greece, Persia, and Carth all suck ! I am not sure which is last but probably palmy is the worst civ. I am not a good hunter or find no animals every time I get persia and they are my least favorite civ by far. I suck fighting w/phants and my whole game is economy so persia falls behind too much for me in bronze and iron. Palmy needs iron age techs to possible make it worth 75 food/peon. Palmy is in deep yogurt if given a bad map .. they can not afford to lose many peons early. Greek's faster hoppers are somewhat useful. as is carth's bonuses. At least carth gets camels to help it survive bronze.

As for Choson, I like them.. but sometimes you can'

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