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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » AoE I vs. AoE II units in RM and DM - who do you think would win?
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Topic Subject:AoE I vs. AoE II units in RM and DM - who do you think would win?
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Rennie Ash
Clubman
(id: JamikKim)
posted 07-04-11 03:05 AM ET (US)         
So, if an AoE I civ was able to play an AoE II civ in a random map or deathmatch, who do you think would win, given same player skill? - Also, consider if we allow the AoE I "buildings only take 1/5 damage" or whatever it uses for buildings...

I'm thinking AoE I moving units would kill AoK moving units more easily, but buildings would be a nightmare for AoE I units to kill, full damage or not.

ALso, it seems that AoE I units are slightly cheaper, but the resourcces on a map are less.
AuthorReplies:
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 10-21-11 04:04 PM ET (US)     101 / 212       
Actually, many more. The absolute pop limit in AOM is 300. Compare to 200 in AOK or 250 for AOE, with the pop mod (without a mere 50). So, try 100. And actually, there's a trick to Atlantean heroes: make all your units, then hero up. This means you can squeeze 150 Contarius units (at 2 slots each), and then hero them up.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Black Euroqueb
Clubman
posted 10-21-11 08:40 PM ET (US)     102 / 212       
This means you can squeeze 150 Contarius units (at 2 slots each), and then hero them up.
Right, but the units that will generate the gold, food and favor needed to heroize them add pop cap. Many villagers, fishing ships and camel caravans are needed. 150 Contarius, 150 heroizations, it means an automatic fall-down of your resources...


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Rennie Ash
Clubman
(id: JamikKim)
posted 10-22-11 01:19 AM ET (US)     103 / 212       
lol don't forget we can go over the pop limit in AoE by making a whole lot of units when our pop is 199/200. Once in the single player (my pop set to 75) game I managed to get 214/75...now if you apply that to the 200 pop limit then I would have had 339/200...of course, the space required for 139 archery ranges is quiet a bit, but 100 could be done on a huge map.

idk if AoM can go over the pop limit, I know AoK stops production so you can never get more than 200...
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 10-22-11 11:30 PM ET (US)     104 / 212       
well, in DM, i think persian ELES would be very very good (AOK)
24 attack, trample damage, 600 HP, and good armor. ITS A MAD HOUSE.
British Longbows pack a punch, against AoE, the only counter civs would have catapults. even those can die to trebs. Taking ground from Brits would require massive armies to overwhelm their archers (80+ archers is how many there would likely be)
but with 11 pierce and 12 range, armies wont get close. it will take catapults. scythe would be good if it didnt have the possibility of dieing quickly. 80 longbows can kill equal armies of paladins.
so once again, there is two strengths the other age games lack: AoE's Siege and Centurion. The heavy cat would devestate everything, the Helepoli would devestqte units, trying to melee it would die to Centurions. key to killing AoE is range and durability.

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 10-22-2011 @ 11:35 PM).]

Rennie Ash
Clubman
(id: JamikKim)
posted 10-23-11 08:31 AM ET (US)     105 / 212       
Those longbowmen would be just like taking out helepolis with Heavy Catapults, except the bowmen move faster and do less damage. The lol thing is that Minoan compies only do 1 damage to longbowmen due to the peirce armour! I still think trebuchets wouldn't work that well at killing anything that moves, they have enough trouble hitting other trebuchets!

I think Persia from AoE would be able to trash AoK Persia's eco due to the fast eles; they could then concentrate on the AoK eles which would probably still be walking towards the AoE base!... XD Although AoK can do raids with their cavalry units too...

I think Armoured Eles have a bigger trample damage radius than any other unit from AoE or AoK, and this really kills a lot of things, perhaps even making up for the lesser attack damage they do compared to AoK eles. Personally I think they look better as well... XD
BSU_DoLhades
Clubman
posted 10-23-11 10:53 AM ET (US)     106 / 212       
It is possible to go over the pop limit on AoM, but not near to that extent.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
Aoe_1337
Clubman
posted 10-23-11 07:20 PM ET (US)     107 / 212       
Like someone else have said, gastaphedes or whatever the name is, they would own big time. It outrange anything by a long shot, not to mention they deal crush damage as well, buildning destroyers. Even the overpowered siege weapons of aoe cant touch them, when massed, even cavalry cant reach them, the range is simply to huge. The kraken would own everything at the sea, and some of the other myth units are simply to devestating for aoe/aok units to handle.
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 10-24-11 00:17 AM ET (US)     108 / 212       
i dont know what your talking about. aok eles are FAST and would pretty much own everything.
edit: damn they are slower than i thought

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 10-24-2011 @ 00:31 AM).]

BSU_DoLhades
Clubman
posted 10-24-11 12:59 PM ET (US)     109 / 212       
hehe Cyclops insta kill in your face :P

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 10-24-11 08:41 PM ET (US)     110 / 212       
I think that the main disadvantage of AoM units is their high population cost and the fact that Town Centers could only be built on settlements (I suppose that's why many didn't like the game as the previous Age ones becouse one needs to think more on what to do and ,the rock/paper/scissors strategy is more robust). Also I don't remember the stats of Hero Contarii, but defense wise they weren't too impressive (cavalry defensive stats have always disappointed me).

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 10-24-2011 @ 08:42 PM).]

ephestion
Clubman
posted 10-25-11 01:22 AM ET (US)     111 / 212       
Everything in AOM was OK except that the buildings needed to be stronger and the maps needed to be bigger to support 1-2 more Town centers. If you play the unpatched AOM the town centers have much higher pop and you can reach 300 pop with the standard number of towns. But then what used to happen is people would take the other persons' town causing them a major pop loss. It was balanced out but they reduced the pop capacity of Towns and hence fewer units. So the final patch screwed the number of units we could have. If the pop of Towns was increased by 5 and there was maybe 1-2 extra towns it would balance things out more. Plus making sure the TC's don't get overrun by the increased number of units means increasing their HP to compensate.


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 10-26-11 11:38 AM ET (US)     112 / 212       
The ronust rock/paper/scissors at land and sea as well as the tactical challenges inpossed by settlements certainly make AoM much more of a tactical game than AoE and AoK, however many people didn't like it, you can't deny it (i do like those traits tho, it makes AoM different form its Ensemble Studios predecessors).
dom0601
Clubman
posted 10-26-11 04:45 PM ET (US)     113 / 212       
250 for AOE, with the pop mod
there's a mod to bring the limit to 30,000. Search it on the granary. If you don't choose the correct patch at menu, you can kill .exe, but it is great.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 10-26-11 05:06 PM ET (US)     114 / 212       
For those of us who have not played AoM, could you explain this RPS system? Is it similar to the one in Empire Earth?

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 10-26-11 05:52 PM ET (US)     115 / 212       
I would suggest looking on AOMH. For the purposes of this post, however, there are two basic RPS systems. One is the standard cavalry-archers-infantry one. The other concerns hero units, which beat the living hell out of myth units. MUs (the creature thingies) are uber-powerful and can tear through human units (the abovementioned infantry, cavalry, and archers). The human units, however, overwhelm heroes, who are either too few (Greek), too expensive (Norse, Atlantean), and/or too weak (Egyptian).

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Aoe_1337
Clubman
posted 10-26-11 06:01 PM ET (US)     116 / 212       
Well, not entirely true. Most heroes would beat a normal human solider 1v1. The greek heroes would slaugther any human solider 1v1, pharaoh as well, Heresirs are no weaklings either.
BSU_DoLhades
Clubman
posted 10-26-11 07:20 PM ET (US)     117 / 212       
There are a few Rock paper scissors systems in place in fact.

Infantry > Cavalry > Archers > Infantry in general, however.

Counter infantry, Archers > Infantry, Counter Cavalry > Cavalry, Counter archers

Camelry count as cavalry and counter cavalry.
Huskarls are an exception to the infantry rule, as they counter archers.

This is then followed by the myth Rock Paper Scissors system.

Heavy Myth > Light Myth > Ranged Myth

Then the heroes system.

Ranged Heroes > Infantry Heroes > Cavalry heroes

This includes counters again too!

The Siege table:

Cavalry > Siege (Including Hetaroi Cavalry) > Building


The Ship table:

Siege > Arrow > Combat

Ranged Boat > Human Units
Siege > Buildings

So effectively:

Human Units > Heroes > Myth > Human Units

Siege > Buildings > Human Units/Heroes

Siege Ships > Arrow Ships/buildings > Combat Ships/Human Units

its quite complex, well yes its VERY complex seeing as there are exceptions in certain areas (Including one Hero ship of course!)

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 10-26-11 08:52 PM ET (US)     118 / 212       
Turkish Bombard Towers and a army of jannisaries + bombard cannons + hussars + heavy camels will kill most armies.
how do myth units stack up? remember the bonuses

USA
katsup or mustard
Aoe_1337
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 08:24 AM ET (US)     119 / 212       
Human units certainly doesnt beat heroes,but they are are easier to mass, and cheaper.
BSU_DoLhades
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 11:15 AM ET (US)     120 / 212       
Actually they do, Heroes are expensive, particularly Greek ones.

Take Jason for example, his resource equivelant in Hypaspists would beat him.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
Aoe_1337
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 11:28 AM ET (US)     121 / 212       
Sure, but it would take way more population cost. And yeah, greek heroes are the most expensive, but also the best. Polyphemus and Bellrephon beat any human unit both cost effectively and pop effectively.
BSU_DoLhades
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 05:42 PM ET (US)     122 / 212       
actually

Polyphemus can be beaten by well micromanaged toxotes.

2 toxotes, use their speed, shoot and run, they both cost the same pop and the toxotes would cost less resources and would end up winning.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 06:09 PM ET (US)     123 / 212       
Bellerophon is among the best hero units in the series. Definitely the best in the game (among those available to players in skirmishes).

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Aoe_1337
Clubman
posted 10-27-11 06:42 PM ET (US)     124 / 212       
Yeah, its only gonna take you a year or two, but by all means. You could also kill 10 war elephants with 1 archer, if you really want to push it. And yes, Bellrophon isnt only the best hero in the game, he is the best unit in the entire game, exept titans.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 10-28-11 03:29 PM ET (US)     125 / 212       
And yet, the norse with their builder infantry are the best civs.
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