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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Poll: Most Underrated Unit
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Topic Subject:Poll: Most Underrated Unit
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jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-16-09 08:24 PM ET (US)         
Most underrated unit?

ME
Camel Rider, closely followed by chariot archer and fire galley


jordanthejq12
Forumer, Age of Kings Heaven
Now also posting here at AOEH
Enjoy!

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
AuthorReplies:
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-27-09 09:57 AM ET (US)     26 / 51       
I DID NOT SAY THAT!
And I'll trade if I have to!

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-27-09 12:13 PM ET (US)     27 / 51       
Duan come out of retirement and play with us. I have been playing daily at IGZ and it has been a lot of fun!!!!!!
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-27-09 02:24 PM ET (US)     28 / 51       
Daily? oh man you certainly have plenty of free time, Enjoy while it lasts.
Anyway, I think I know what's the problem in here. We're talking about standard RM while jordan is talking about Stone-start DM. You are, aren't you?...
Must be it...o.0
Jordan, would you clarify it for us?
Thank you.

Also Horse archers aren't as fast as chariot archers, they are faster indeed!. But we were talking about slingers how do we come to this?
Gumble
Clubman
posted 06-28-09 01:14 AM ET (US)     29 / 51       
Actually while you guys have been focussing exclusively on slingers and chariots Gumble brings his own underratted units onto the board...

1. Gaia lions can easily stuff up an early a-forawrd-base-strategy if your not observant. (which is difficult in the first 5 mins of the game where you are trying to establish your economy and where your oppenents are)

2.Camels may be considered weak but as Fruky can attest Gumble has used them to ensure victory on three straight games in a row.

3.If scouts where half the price at 50 food then they could be a vilable offensive option. As they are they are far too expensive in a tool age economy in a standard game to mass-produce and relatively weak against all other units. That being said they make great villager harrasment units and in dm can be very cost-effective as an anti-catapult unit. Ive seen many a game using their supierer speed to run through a group of catas and watch them kill each other in an effort to kill the lone scout.

4.Having a strong navy can not only save your life but be a cost-effective defence against land units. That 9 hour game would have been lost in ony an hour if I hadnt spammed trimes and covered about a third of the gigcantic map, preventing my oppenet from building docks. This allowd me to have quite a defenceable pinuslar surronded by sea and my trimemes.

5.Unless your confined to the stone age, even in great numbers, the humble clubmen are practicularly useless against any unit with at least 1 piece of armour.

Too many people say far too much about Gumble. They also claim Gumble says far too much which isnt true.

One man's truth is another man's lie. Seek TRUTH to escape this moral mire.

'Experts' try to analyse human behaviour and the human condition and make grand conclusions. - Its the same as the guy who explains why a joke is funny and kills the joke.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-28-09 08:10 AM ET (US)     30 / 51       
Can't really now, Blitz. Sorry man. I'm going in to University very soon and even now, there're many activities to attend. Once the semester starts, I doubt I'll even be able to visit the forums. Got to get a good track record and go for a double degree, that's my plan. So I can't afford to screw up my first couple of uni years, they're really crucial for me. Strictly no gaming (and no time for it even if I wanted to).
Axoren
Clubman
posted 06-28-09 01:43 PM ET (US)     31 / 51       
... Villagers.

You have a catapult attacking your town, all your soldiers are off attacking someone else's town. You left no defenses like an idiot. They send 2 catapults, you have 20 villagers.

What do you do? You fricken swarm them with your villagers. You can always make new ones and you can definitely take out their cats. At most you need 2 in this hypothetical situation.

Also, Gumble, Scouts are 75 in some civ, I forget which one.

[/Your Reign]
Take that, Player 2!

[This message has been edited by Axoren (edited 06-28-2009 @ 01:45 PM).]

Gumble
Clubman
posted 06-29-09 01:26 AM ET (US)     32 / 51       
yamato, and even at 75 food they are still freakin expensive

Too many people say far too much about Gumble. They also claim Gumble says far too much which isnt true.

One man's truth is another man's lie. Seek TRUTH to escape this moral mire.

'Experts' try to analyse human behaviour and the human condition and make grand conclusions. - Its the same as the guy who explains why a joke is funny and kills the joke.
The Dark Archer
HG Alumnus
posted 06-29-09 02:45 AM ET (US)     33 / 51       
4.Having a strong navy can not only save your life but be a cost-effective defence against land units. That 9 hour game would have been lost in ony an hour if I hadnt spammed trimes and covered about a third of the gigcantic map, preventing my oppenet from building docks. This allowd me to have quite a defenceable pinuslar surronded by sea and my trimemes.
In some maps a strong navy is a must. Islands and Medit for example.
I'm going in to University very soon and even now, there're many activities to attend. Once the semester starts, I doubt I'll even be able to visit the forums. Got to get a good track record and go for a double degree, that's my plan. So I can't afford to screw up my first couple of uni years, they're really crucial for me.
There are things I would disagree with. Your first year can sometimes be a bit daunting and although you should try the best you can sometimes you can't help screw it up if you don't know what you really want to do. I know I was going to be a engineer at the start of last year but now I'm going for a computer science degree. Remember to be flexible and to pop in when you can (AKA the holidays when you have nothing to do ).

The Dark Archer

"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
"I once met a girl who looked like a camel" - Rasteve
Death of the Morads | AoEH Design Series II | Out From the Cliffs
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 07-01-09 09:21 AM ET (US)     34 / 51       
Hey I think you scared jordanthejq12...I hope he comes back. Is always good to have new members around.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-03-09 05:07 PM ET (US)     35 / 51       
You didn't scare me, I was just at a college orientation program thingy, with no access to any HG site(the most off-where-I-was-supposed-to-be I could be was e-mailing my mother).
Oh, and how are scouts "expensive" when they cost the same as axemen and vils? Scout/axe/vil rushes were a favorite of mine for quite some time, as they cost the same as an all-vil rush. Then one rush got flattened by Assyrian bowmen, and I gave it up.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
MrCheeze
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 11:04 AM ET (US)     36 / 51       
Oh right, 100, 50, and 25 are the same thing. Silly me.

"Mrcheeze your genius but not quite a Gumble-kind-of genius." - Gumble
"We're all friendly here except MrCheeze but he means well" - Ninetales (Not exact words)
"Gumble has no words for you, you’re boring now. -underrated- that’s a joke, Gumble is OVERSTATED." - Gumble
(Not even sure what he was saying there)
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 11:47 AM ET (US)     37 / 51       
I don't understand what that means. Please clarify.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 11:59 AM ET (US)     38 / 51       
Oh, and how are scouts "expensive" when they cost the same as axemen and vils? Scout/axe/vil rushes were a favorite of mine for quite some time, as they cost the same as an all-vil rush.
Jordan, in all sincerity, I really do suggest you check your facts and figures before making any post here. It's for your own good (saves you from potential flaming and curt replies from us) and for our good too (from getting fits when we read your posts).

I am telling you this here out of politeness and hope that you can use this constructive criticism to review your posting habits. I can assure you that many other Heavens (including AoKH) aren't as forgiving and patient as we have been. I've been rebutting almost every one of your posts so far not to make you look bad or small, but because there really have been many glaring errors that I couldn't resist correcting.
I don't understand what that means. Please clarify.
MrCheeze was just being sarcastic. A scout costs 100 food. Yamato has discounted scouts at 75 food each. Even so, it's still more expensive than a villager, which costs 50 food.

An axer does cost 50 food too, but to make them effective, one usually needs to give them the attack and leather armour upgrade, which further adds on to the burden of an early economy (+100 food too for the axer upgrade, I almost forgot). Scouts are very expensive, and only their speed justifies this cost. Other than that, they're pretty much crap unless you can make lots of them and throw in the attack and armour upgrades.
Ninetails
AoEH MMC Winner
(id: TailSpray)
posted 07-04-09 05:56 PM ET (US)     39 / 51       
Well then, rather than argue/refute, why don't you play an MP game and prove your strategies? Jordan seems to have used the strategy quite a few times (or so I gathered by what he said), so he should demonstrate the use of his tactics.

| The Slave Pits (4.8) MMC 1st Place | The Fate of Inraya Teaser (4.5) | The Parting Gift | Computer Wars Pack |
"Never experienced any of his revolutionary scenarios, but dang if he isn't charismatic when he speaks!" -Aro
Voted AoEH's Most Helpful Forumer 2009!

Ninetails, of all the forumers you seen to have the inabillity to feel hate against your fellow man. A noble trait, treasure it. -Gumble
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 07:28 PM ET (US)     40 / 51       
"An axer does cost 50 food too, but to make them effective, one usually needs to give them the attack and leather armour upgrade, which further adds on to the burden of an early economy (+100 food too for the axer upgrade, I almost forgot)."
-Duan Xuan

That's 2 extra vils, which translates to a few hundred extra resource in the long run. Don't forget, though, vils after Jihad beat axers at about 2 to 1, instead of 15 to 1.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Gumble
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 08:05 PM ET (US)     41 / 51       
Yes, but one would hope by the time the battle is in the iron age your oppenent would be smart enough to use something more sophisticated than an axeman...

Anyway Gumble's original comment was, in an early tool age game when the economy is quite vulnerable, scouts simply are not cost-effective means of an offensive unit. Simply put, if your training scouts to defeat your enemy then your likely to sabotage yourself rather than the enemy. The only times Gumble would actually use scouts is when (scouting), killing fleeing villies in the iron age, and as anti group-catapult weapons. It is ever so much fun to watch 20 heavy catapults kill each other in an effort to kill one lone scout trotting admidst their ranks.

Too many people say far too much about Gumble. They also claim Gumble says far too much which isnt true.

One man's truth is another man's lie. Seek TRUTH to escape this moral mire.

'Experts' try to analyse human behaviour and the human condition and make grand conclusions. - Its the same as the guy who explains why a joke is funny and kills the joke.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-04-09 09:25 PM ET (US)     42 / 51       
(Fact check)Works with chariots and HAs too, right?

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
MrCheeze
Clubman
posted 07-05-09 10:21 AM ET (US)     43 / 51       
Wait, villagers don't cost 25? *smiley that vaguely conveys embarassement*

"Mrcheeze your genius but not quite a Gumble-kind-of genius." - Gumble
"We're all friendly here except MrCheeze but he means well" - Ninetales (Not exact words)
"Gumble has no words for you, you’re boring now. -underrated- that’s a joke, Gumble is OVERSTATED." - Gumble
(Not even sure what he was saying there)
irwinner
Clubman
posted 07-08-09 10:05 AM ET (US)     44 / 51       
for me the villager is underrated! every tool rushed a group of woodcutters to be then boned to death lol

what about the late iron when you have pushed the enemy backed into a corner only for a group of villagers to flank you, take out your walls, and tower all over your base? i have a bunch of forwards on the enemy's doorstep but no resources coming in (due to my zero stockpile rule!)

btw - CA are not underrated, try a 200-pop limit game, maybe hillz?

and i have used slingers myself in early bronze (random civs...greeks!!!)


i havent read every post, but has anyone mentioned cataphracts? ive always seen them as useless in rm and dm..
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-08-09 03:15 PM ET (US)     45 / 51       
That's because cataphracts get smacked around by any other decent rush. I've rushed camels against them-and won. I've rushed horse archers-and won. Frankly, unless you still have toothy clubmen as your only military unit, cataphracts are easy prey in a PIDM.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
irwinner
Clubman
posted 07-08-09 05:31 PM ET (US)     46 / 51       
I was only mentioning cataphracts as i see them as totally useless in both forms of the multiplayer game. I didn't know if someone actually believed they were underrated, and can give an example.

My problem with cataphracts is their line of sight. Hard to keep up a chase against CA or HA/HHA with these units!
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-09-09 05:04 PM ET (US)     47 / 51       
Don't I know it. My best camel rushes(and I am quite proficent with those)have been ruined by a defense of HHAs.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 07-13-09 10:06 AM ET (US)     48 / 51       
Well the main problem with Cataphracts, IMO, is that there's no proportion between the high cost of the technology and their relative inneficency.

About camel rush: it is way more effective in RM games in bronze-early iron. You can't expect camels to be that useful in DMs nor in late iron, because of better infantry, defense and archers.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-13-09 02:49 PM ET (US)     49 / 51       
Point taken. However, contrary to popular belief, you CAN sucessfully pull off a camel rush.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 07-15-09 11:00 AM ET (US)     50 / 51       
Well yeah, with good tactics any rush can be countered and stopped. of course depends on how well organized is the rush and how good is the defensive strategy.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 07-15-09 08:38 PM ET (US)     51 / 51       
I have been stopped by nothing but a solid wall of ballista towers. The tower wall, or twall for short, can be quite effective if executed correctly. I gurantee a solid wall of ballista towers along the coast can stop any trireme or fire galley rush.
Now juggernauts are a different story. And, of course, lemme have an HCat! But wall off his siege workshops-I've won against newbies who had the tendency to flood HCats. You wanna make a noob into a newb? Wall/tower off his siege.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
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