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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Poll: Most Underrated Unit
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Topic Subject:Poll: Most Underrated Unit
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jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-16-09 08:24 PM ET (US)         
Most underrated unit?

ME
Camel Rider, closely followed by chariot archer and fire galley


jordanthejq12
Forumer, Age of Kings Heaven
Now also posting here at AOEH
Enjoy!

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
AuthorReplies:
MrCheeze
Clubman
posted 06-16-09 11:00 PM ET (US)     1 / 51       
Chariot archers, underrated???

"Mrcheeze your genius but not quite a Gumble-kind-of genius." - Gumble
"We're all friendly here except MrCheeze but he means well" - Ninetales (Not exact words)
"Gumble has no words for you, you’re boring now. -underrated- that’s a joke, Gumble is OVERSTATED." - Gumble
(Not even sure what he was saying there)
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-17-09 02:33 AM ET (US)     2 / 51       
Yeah, there is no way CA's are underrated.

I personally think slingerswould be the most underrated unit, especially with the most underrated tech, stone mining. Causing the slingers attack to be just as effective as a bowman against melee units and enabling it to kill a bowman in 7 hits compared to 10 without it.However the low HP and lack of melee armor means that slingers are vulnerable to melee attacks so you'll have to have a few axemen guarding them though.

As if that wasn't enough the slinger is a unit that can be used in any age (except stone). In bronze I have found slingers with bronze shield to be an excellent counter to CA's. And when you run out of gold in Iron age, slingers will prove decent against Even HHA's.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-17-09 06:27 AM ET (US)     3 / 51       
Which helps if you're someone like Greece who doesn't get impies/compies.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
HMFSFM
Clubman
(id: Da KiLLeR)
posted 06-17-09 05:07 PM ET (US)     4 / 51       
I hate slingers.

Killer, HMFSFM
AoE Portuguese Designer
"Combining good map design and personality since whenever it was that he exploded onto AoEH, blowing away all the known rules of designing!" - Ninetails
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Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-18-09 10:43 PM ET (US)     5 / 51       
I explained why camel riders can't be considered underrated in another thread. And is odd you consider the best bronze age land unit underrated as well.

The chariot archers don't cost gold, so you can have a lot of them while they let you advance to iron quickly. Also they are fast and with a decent attack, as i said they could be the most useful (best?) land unit in bronze age.

@ fruitfish: you consider slingers underrated? how many times have you been tool rushed? I fear them, and i think that underrating them would be your doom!
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-19-09 01:45 AM ET (US)     6 / 51       
Most tool rushes I get consist of axemen or bowmen, the only time I've seen slingers rushing it was an army of slingers and nothing else, and in that game I was Sumerian.

I'm just pointing out that with stone mining slingers deal just as much damage to axemen as bowmen, while keeping the +2 damage VS archers, which in my opinion makes them the most valuable unit in tool.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-20-09 11:05 AM ET (US)     7 / 51       
They also do the same damage to scouts. Frankly, I still prefer archers slightly, and only because that +1 range can make a big difference.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-20-09 12:22 PM ET (US)     8 / 51       
Ok, I won't really argue much about camels, since I never use them and hence am in no position to criticise it.

As the others have said, there is no way that CAs can be on the list of under-rated units. It is used in practically every MP game out there. Hills maps are pre-eminently CA wars when players hit Bronze. Even on water maps, CAs are widely used to quickly reach enemy bases in order to harrass their economy.

And yes, fire galleys are indeed under-rated. They are incredibly powerful and effective against normaly galleys and even triremes. Only problem is, they're kinda expensive due to the gold requirement, hence most players won't be able to afford them. Anybody who can wouldn't bother to - they'd just spam cheap triremes to flood the sea and win the game. That's why you hardly ever see fire galleys online.

In the other thread, Jordan included slingers to his list of under-rated units (but not in this thread). I would dispute that too. Unlike Fruktfisk, most tool rushes I encounter online are a combination of axers and slingers, or purely slingers. When executed early enough, a slinger rush can totally disrupt an enemy player's economy by forcing his villagers to abandon base and flee. I've often been on the receiving end of such a horrible punishment because I'm a boomer. Trust me, slingers are among the favourite units for conti players. I hate them.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-20-09 06:06 PM ET (US)     9 / 51       
I totally concur with Duan, there's no way slingers could be underrated, They are the main core of the armies of most tool rushers i've faced.

Now i don't get you Fruktfisk, you say that slingers are underrated but still in your opinion they are the most useful [military land] tool age unit. I think that's a bit contradictory.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-20-09 06:45 PM ET (US)     10 / 51       
I am also an AOKH forumer, and to those of us who play AOK, does sound like that one flush we know as standard in RM?

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-21-09 02:11 AM ET (US)     11 / 51       
Yes, I say they are the most useful tool unit, but also that I almost never see them used, therefore they are underrated.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-21-09 02:08 PM ET (US)     12 / 51       
That's your experiences. My experiences show a whole lot of axeman/slinger trushes, which come in handy quite often, especially if enemy is one of those good archer civs like Assyria or Minoa. And slingers can counter HHAs or CAs or compies, meaning they stick around even in late Bronze/early Iron, until the cents and Dumbos come out.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-22-09 08:54 PM ET (US)     13 / 51       
And slingers can counter HHAs or CAs or compies, meaning they stick around even in late Bronze/early Iron
Um... that would really be overstating their usefulness. Slingers are useful only in Tool. Once the Bronze and Iron units come out, they're just arrow fodder like any other unit. +1 shield against ranged units won't help much because the attack of compies and HAs are far superior to slingers.

And yup, an axer+slinger Tool rush in AoE is kinda similar to the spearman+skirmisher Flush combo in AoK.
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-23-09 10:09 AM ET (US)     14 / 51       
It's not totally understating their usefulness. Assyrian CA rush can be stopped cold by enough slingers. Though CAs, in my opinion, are somewhat overrated-they only have 5 attack FU, which does nothing to a cent. CAs only serve as priest stoppers, or if I don't have HAs or EAs. Frankly, unless my opponent is priest flooding, I'll use regular bowmen over CAs if I have to.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-23-09 10:14 AM ET (US)     15 / 51       
Maybe it's time for me to come out of 'retirement' and demonstrate the prowess of CAs then... hmm...
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-23-09 11:21 AM ET (US)     16 / 51       
Assyrian Chariot archers stopped by slingers? Must see that: CA have have better range, attack, speed and HPs than the slingers and as a bonus all Assyrian Archer units have an increased fire rate in the game. I think is unlikely that slingers would beat down an army of chariot archers. Indeed if one gets a nice army of Chariot archers in bronze, one's virtually unstoppable (at least in my experience).
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-25-09 08:31 PM ET (US)     17 / 51       
It's not totally understating their usefulness. Assyrian CA rush can be stopped cold by enough slingers.
-Myself

Emphasis on enough. If I see 40 CAs coming and I have 25 slingers left over from my failed tool rush(which only failed because his ally tributed him enough to mass axemen and drive me out), I'm going for it. Hasta la vista, ya weak tool-agers! But do your thing one last time.
Okay, so maybe slingers can't send home chariot archers. But they CAN give me enough time to get my ST/hoplite rush ready.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
The Dark Archer
HG Alumnus
posted 06-25-09 09:19 PM ET (US)     18 / 51       
The CA's speed is one of it's biggest advantages. You might buy time by attacking a CA rush with slingers but the CAs could just speed past to harass your villies.

Edit: Yeah Duan you do need start playing again even if I can't.

The Dark Archer

"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
"I once met a girl who looked like a camel" - Rasteve
Death of the Morads | AoEH Design Series II | Out From the Cliffs

[This message has been edited by The Dark Archer (edited 06-25-2009 @ 09:20 PM).]

jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-26-09 10:38 AM ET (US)     19 / 51       
Which is too bad, because I'd then have a layer of HAs guarding my vils. HAs are just as fast, wiht the exact same range, but with more attack and...wait for it...wait for it...pierce armor! Now what? Oh, and did I mention I'll have priests behind the HAs, and any CA that tries to fire over the Ha to reach my priests will get massacred on the spot? That'll annoy the heck out of them.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-26-09 10:59 AM ET (US)     20 / 51       
It's getting kind of exasperating in here. Are we even talking about the same age and the same units?

How can you have STs, hoplites, priests and even HAs when you're just recovering from a failed Tool Rush, probably still struggling to get to Bronze, while I'm in your base with 20 CAs killing off or chasing away your helpless villagers? Even if I'm merciful enough to let you get to Bronze and make some STs and hoplites, I'll still have a far larger economy than you, and I can spam 50+ CAs nonstop from more than 10 ranges all over the map, while coming up with compies and STs myself and preparing to hit Iron.

Having 25 slingers (which is really a lot) left over doesn't mean you can slow down my CAs. I can outrun them any time and kill off your villagers. While you're preoccupied with my initial CA force, I am pumping out one CA in less than a minute from at least 4 ranges - faster than you can kill them.
Ninetails
AoEH MMC Winner
(id: TailSpray)
posted 06-26-09 11:32 AM ET (US)     21 / 51       
Even if I'm merciful enough to let you get to Bronze and make some STs and hoplites, I'll still have a far larger economy than you, and I can spam 50+ CAs nonstop from more than 10 ranges all over the map, while coming up with compies and STs myself and preparing to hit Iron.

Having 25 slingers (which is really a lot) left over doesn't mean you can slow down my CAs. I can outrun them any time and kill off your villagers. While you're preoccupied with my initial CA force, I am pumping out one CA in less than a minute from at least 4 ranges - faster than you can kill them.
I surrender!

| The Slave Pits (4.8) MMC 1st Place | The Fate of Inraya Teaser (4.5) | The Parting Gift | Computer Wars Pack |
"Never experienced any of his revolutionary scenarios, but dang if he isn't charismatic when he speaks!" -Aro
Voted AoEH's Most Helpful Forumer 2009!

Ninetails, of all the forumers you seen to have the inabillity to feel hate against your fellow man. A noble trait, treasure it. -Gumble
jordanthejq12
Clubman
posted 06-26-09 09:20 PM ET (US)     22 / 51       
How can you have STs, hoplites, priests and even HAs when you're just recovering from a failed Tool Rush, probably still struggling to get to Bronze, while I'm in your base with 20 CAs killing off or chasing away your helpless villagers?
Because while I was flooding slingers, I hit the Bronze button(thanks to my 15 fishing ships and 25 woodcutters), with 15 each of gold and stone, which, along with 10 farmers, is...a 80 villager economy. (Actually, 65 with 15 ships.) Thus, I could initate the advance while I was slinger-rushing, having the resource to prepare my defenses in case of failure. I was sixth of eight to Tool, but I got to Bronze only two minutes after you because I had so many food gatherers.
Let me know if that's two preposterous.

PS.: You aren't going to be able, mostly in Iron DM, to kill my vils without a fight. My DM order:
Vils 1-3: House, Temple, Jihad. That's all I constantly practice.

"Preparation is not prevention. Just because you know what's coming does not mean you can stop it."
--Me

Something to remember: always know where you're going, but never forget where you came from.

The Age of Chivalry is upon us! Visit the only wiki devoted exclusively to Aoc:H by clicking on the preceding link. Oh yeah, and it works with the HD edition, too--just make sure to get this first.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-26-09 09:39 PM ET (US)     23 / 51       
Interesting read. jordanthejq12 is the modern wedsaz.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-26-09 10:22 PM ET (US)     24 / 51       
Lol Blitz.

Anyway, I think I know what's the problem in here. We're talking about standard RM while jordan is talking about Stone-start DM. You are, aren't you?...

[This message has been edited by Duan Xuan (edited 06-26-2009 @ 10:22 PM).]

Axoren
Clubman
posted 06-27-09 05:20 AM ET (US)     25 / 51       
I'm still trying to get why and how his woodcutters are collecting gold from trees... That sentence lost me.

[/Your Reign]
Take that, Player 2!
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