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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » How to stop Choson rush in DM games?
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Topic Subject:How to stop Choson rush in DM games?
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curious
Clubman
posted 11-30-01 10:25 AM ET (US)         
Hi, I am trying to gather some strategies against Cho rush in DM games. I have tried every combo including cents+heli, HHA+cats, HHA+cents, but they are often too damn slow to build sizable army aginst cho legion+tower combo.
Given 2 players' skills are same, choson player almost always seems to have edge against the other civ. They are just too easy to amass and too damn cheap to build. Only real success i had against a "good" cho was when the land was divided by shallows (cho hates water, hit archers can really rock in this map) or if I play cho myself. Tell me your success stories against cho before I turn into another cho exclusive player.
AuthorReplies:
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-07-01 04:47 PM ET (US)     26 / 43       
Oh please... There's is no way in hell a Yammy player is going to defeat Choson 1v1 if they both have the same experience. Yammy have absolutely nothing against Choson towers so leave the argument. Yammy are only useful in backing up a totally siege reliant civ (eg Rome) when facing Choson.

Most good Cho rush get 50+ long swordsmen by 4 mins and at least cover a quarter of the map with towers by 5 mins. The only things that can counter in 4 mins are other legions, war elephants, HHAs or other towers. Forget siege, it takes way to long to amass an army before a decent Cho rush is used.

Siege will get decimated when you play a good Cho rusher so if they say NO SIEGE they are obviously pretty poor with Choson. Most Choson games are over within 10 mins if the rush is good.


CenturionZ_1
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Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-07-01 07:00 PM ET (US)     27 / 43       
Prephaps you would like to test my therory?
curious
Clubman
posted 12-08-01 03:20 AM ET (US)     28 / 43       
Thanks for many replies.
But it appears some suggestions are questionable.
Yamato against choson? Never ever heard of it. I have never seen a yammy beating choson if cho rushes.
cho towers and will tear HHA apart and legions will do the rest. Centurion guy seems to be a reg DM player here cause his replies seem up to date with current DM playing trend.

Only other suggestion I may add myself is i do have some luck when i play greek and use heli+cat combo... that is if cho rush was not fast enough to stop the heli building. but a good cho player would never allow that to happen so...

btw, i dont' play ROR so please let me know if u have more AOE suggestions

Noble
Clubman
posted 12-08-01 05:34 AM ET (US)     29 / 43       
AOE_Revolutionary:
Well I rarely see experts complaining about seige. If someone who builds cats early on in the game is up against a choson they are dead in about 3 minutes. If someone goes all out ballista/helepolis they are dead in 5 minutes.

Curius:
You think that centurions are up to date???? Jeez the only time I have ever seen centurions in a game is when it was a centurion war lol.

Also alot of people are thinking that yammy is so bad against a choson in a 1v1. They are true about that since a yamato can do nothing against a choson in a 1v1. I just played yam v cho and he had a pop of 14 and this is 1 hour 45 mins into the game while I have a pop of 107. But I had to resign because he had about 60 towers.

I say give yamato a try in a 2v2 if one of the enemy is choson and make sure you pard is hittite, rome or greek. With a strat like this me and MT_House_Arrest have probably won every game and this counts to about 10 us v chosons.

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-08-01 11:42 AM ET (US)     30 / 43       
Noble: curious meant me not the centurion unit.

CenturionZ_1
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AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-08-01 03:24 PM ET (US)     31 / 43       
Noble:
I have always used Hittite siege whenever I played Choson. Even the most expert Choson player can lack sometimes. I usually try to fortify my place whilst building siege. The most important factor to using siege as counter has to be speed and number of villagers. Best thing to do is make lots of siege workshops and then start making siege while upgrading instantly, meanwhile make some archeries and EArchers, this way you always have backups. 50 or more legions will not stand a good seige counter attack 25 siege are enought for a huge army of legions.
Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-08-01 03:53 PM ET (US)     32 / 43       
Well well well I just beaten a Choson player 1 vs 1, I was Yamato and kicked his arse! I used a mixure of HHA and Cataphracts to kill him.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-08-01 04:42 PM ET (US)     33 / 43       
Kingkerry: That's not a big deal if the Cho player is very bad. Even a rubbishy Egypt rush can put down a bad Cho rush.

CenturionZ_1
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 05:23 AM ET (US)     34 / 43       
You are very true CenturionZ_1 many cho's are a complete disgrace and pose no threat.
AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 07:35 AM ET (US)     35 / 43       
Why do you guys think that Cho is the best civ? It is not. Cho is a easy civ to learn and use for anyone, just build towers and make legions...Anyway, I am not saying that Choson isnt good, it is, but it is over used by many people. Almost every DM game will have atleast 2 players wanting Cho and the reason for this is that Cho is relitively easy to use.
Noble
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 07:40 AM ET (US)     36 / 43       
Yes in AOE cho is very popular but when you look at the ROR scene only the best players use choson and they play it extremely well.

BTW in ROR all the best choson players always have good pards so it helps.

[This message has been edited by Noble (edited 12-09-2001 @ 07:41 AM).]

AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 08:02 AM ET (US)     37 / 43       
I have also found out that many Cho players get their speed through the use of "Macros". These macros allows the player with two strokes of the keyboard to create numerous unit in 1 second, also, if there is lag, unbuilt Barracks will produce these units. Pressing ALT+M for example, if the player programs the software (Macro Express everybody...), then preassing these two buttons will order all the barracks at the same time to start making these units. Think about how dangerous this can be when it comes to ROR. In ROR you can make multiple units at the same place. A player might not even have to go through all the barracks to make units. One stroke of ALT+M might last him throughout the game!

Some consider this cheate, mostly those who fall victims to this and lose. Others consider it a gift, why would a plyer reject a gift? Usuall those who consider it a gift are those who win..

Anyway, I myself have once tried out Macros, and believe me, even the rook, the newbie can become a Super Expert as some players call themselves.

Macro Express is readily available at: http://www.macroexpress.com
for those who want to try it out

Centurion
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 12:49 PM ET (US)     38 / 43       
It's been a while since I played, but I think I played Hittie (and I kicked ass)
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-09-01 02:43 PM ET (US)     39 / 43       
AOE_Revolutionary: You are so wrong. Choson is not an easy civ to be good with. It takes skill to forward build those towers and keep those legions pumping.

Also the only reason Cho rush is so deadly is ES underestimated how much infantry needed to be boosted in RoR. They gave them logistics and the tower shield which is OK but I think they forgot to put in a cheap infantry counter as cavalry is way to expensive.

But the only reason Cho rush has become harder is that there is a ele and chariot upgrade in RoR making more problems for infantry.


CenturionZ_1
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curious
Clubman
posted 01-11-02 02:11 PM ET (US)     40 / 43       
Thanks for many advises. I've finally concluded that the only effective way to beat choson is to be choson.(I play original AOE, so I do not know any ROR civ).
Of course, there are 3 civs who can possibly beat choson, but not always..

1. Greek - centurion and helipolis combo is extremely effective against choson, if Greek can survive the first 10 min. (now that's a BIG if).

2. Hittite heavy archers are good at delaying cho rush and will ultimately come out ahead in river map ( in highland with no rivers though, a good cho player almost always win in the end).

3. Persian elephants rush has moderate success against a mediocre cho player. However, a priest and tower combo can almost surely stop early ele rush and if persia can not finish the game within 1st 10 min, they are certainly DEAD in next 10 min.

So which civ is most powerful in quick rush as well as long-running war? the answer has to be choson.

RomanGladius
AOKH DM Champion
posted 01-11-02 03:53 PM ET (US)     41 / 43       
If you are playing regular aoe, choson pretty much rules everyone 1v1. Greek, Hitt, Bab are okay in AoE but generally are too slow building up vs. a Choson...
Noble
Clubman
posted 01-12-02 04:41 AM ET (US)     42 / 43       
I play ROR DM but I would think Greek would be very effective in AOE DM.

Mix lots of towers with lots of helepolis then just sit back and let the legions attack. Add afew Hvy Cats to take out the towers and cho can't do nothing.

curious
Clubman
posted 01-31-02 03:05 PM ET (US)     43 / 43       
This may not be a news to a lot of u playing radom civ in DM games, but I found out that babylonians are just as tough as greeks against Choson.

A zone friend of mine played Babylonian against my choson, and man was he strong.
First, the towers stopped my quick rush and then those pesky priests started to convert everything within their reach. I thought Bab priests were even more powerful than Egyptian ones due to their fast recovery.
Then he counter-attacked me with legions from my own(now converted)barracks.
He got me into serious trouble until I started to pump my own priests and converted his towers.
At the end, we got out of sync. but it was a very close game.

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