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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Really crappy bronzing
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Topic Subject:Really crappy bronzing
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darius_the_mede
Clubman
posted 09-25-00 08:14 PM ET (US)         
My favorite civ now, has to be shang/persia(wedsaz you were right). My bronze time has always been horrible, 20, 21, 19 around there. So I finnally read all the strat articles I could find on fast bronzing. So I tried all of em and sort of came up with my own twist. And it worked, boy did it ever, my best broze time was 18:40, now its 12:40!~ what a jump. Boy never doubt what an expert tells you, I wasn't shore fishing, I NEVER hunted, I always berryed and then farmed. Boy was I wrong, now I don't farm, if at all, until late Iron, witch the game is usally over by then. I'm either shore fishing, hunting or berrying. Boy does it ever make a difference, and I play at 1.0 speed ONLY. Even at that speed I still am runing around like crazy with things to do. Like I think it was CD who said in his article on 1.0 speed, "if your ever sitting around watching your peons work, your doing something wrong". And he's RIGHT. And with Persia, I bronzed at 12:00! flat! That hunting bonus really helps! There bronze millitary is crap though. But Iron's not too bad. I still perfer Shang though because there Iron sucks ass, but I don't like Iron games anywho, thier bronze is one of the best. Even with Yammy, I bronzed a full 1:20 secconds later then Shang. Unless I want to do a cav rush on some IRon civ, I go with Shang. I know someone probably has better times then I do, but this is a breakthrough for me. My ways may not be the best for experts, but there good for rookies trying to improv. OK here's what I do, 1.0 speed ALWAYS. OH and learn all The HOTKEYS! BIG time saver. INcluding build hotkeys.

First off, build two houses with two peons, que 4 peons at TC send third to to build granery by some berries,(asuming its reveal), then after the first house is built send the second peon building house to berry pit. Then 1st peon should pop out, chop trees near TC and same with peon building house once he's finished. Then next 2 peons out should goto berry pit, last one goes to wood around TC(you don't have a wood pit yet) then as soon as your food hits 40/50 hit that peon button. your going with 4 peons on berry always, no more, no less(at least until you get to late bronze).*Note* While this is going on you should be looking for a good place to wood pit. Near some stone/gold or/and some gazzelle is ideal. then you should have about 4/5 villes on wood by the time you get 120 for a pit. Once you do only send 2 of your woodies to build your pre-selected wood spot. Then let the others keep chopping wood. Once the pits built put the rest on on wood)except your 4 berry pickers of course). You should be needing a house soon, so as soon as you get 30 wood build another house. Throughout this keep building peons. Next after the house your going to be aim for a 100 wood for a dock, after finding a good wood spot you next need to look for a good dock spot *same those shore fish for your villies!* Before yhe dock though, you'll want to find some shore fish close to the TC, if not then put your next 4 peons hunting/shore fishing. To sumerize you should have 4 berry pickers, 4 hunter/shore fishers and 8 woodies. AFter your dock is built, and you have 120 wood, you can pit somewhere for some shore fish. then your gonna want 2 more villes for hunting/shore fishing. And as you get the wood build 4 Fishing boats. By now you should have near 500 food. When you hit that tool button, you should have 18-20 villes, not including boats. While your tooling, make sure to build your barracks. Then if you've got a good shore fish spot and 4-5 villes hunting, 4-5 boats, and those 4 berry pickers, by the time you tool(witch should be around 9-10 min.), you should have around 600-650 food. the ONLY thing you wanna research during tool is toolworking at a storage pit. Make sure you have enough wood for a market and a stable/archer range in order to bronze. Once you get 800 hit the bronze button. WHILE your bronzing switch 2-3 villes over to gold/stone. then while your bronzing you can upgrade woodworking gold/stone mining (and if your planing on making cavs to harrass some ememy villies, leather armor cavelry too). Now your all set! You should bronze by 13-14 minutes. Whew, these long posts are killing me. Open for suggestions. When I play after I bronze I usally get 4-5 cavs in by 15-16 minutes. And i just keep making em and sending em in until I get about 6-7 then I quit and build some ST's and a few slingers with some chariots usally. then I concentrate a little on my navy, 4-5 war galleys usally do it. ok Post your suggestions/feed back plz!!!!


MSN-IM - king_zoser@hotmail.com
E-mail Me - laststop@ematic.com
"Great minds have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-27-00 10:51 PM ET (US)     26 / 47       
I work from home. (or live at me workplace, depending on how you look at it)
 
Cable modem connection, very fast but only one ip which isn't normally enough for half a dozen computers. Ip masquerading, judging by the howto on their own website, is the way to resolve this. AoE doesn't agree.

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darius_the_mede
Clubman
posted 09-27-00 11:01 PM ET (US)     27 / 47       
Oh really? I was wondering how you managed to get a post in every other minute here at the AoEH forum . So what exactly do you do for work?

MSN-IM - king_zoser@hotmail.com
E-mail Me - laststop@ematic.com
"Great minds have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-27-00 11:24 PM ET (US)     28 / 47       
darius:
Java programming, mostly. I believe you've already seen UrMud? (that's just one of our projects btw)

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RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 01:24 AM ET (US)     29 / 47       
Actually, Macedonian is getting more recognition on the zone. Not nearly as common as Egyptian or Hittite, but a few do take it into consideration. Their cheap seige is the key to taking almost any enemy out in bronze
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 02:48 AM ET (US)     30 / 47       
RageOMatic:
Yeah, mace is used more that persian in RM despite being slower... people are weird.
 
I'd say the key to using mace effectively is the invincible hoplite+compie combo, since the only thing that can kill mace hoplites is other hoplites which die easily to compies while mace's don't. The STs and cavs are only there for taking down annoying walls and chasing wimpy villies respectively, and their bonuses help them nicely for those roles. The only thing mace could really use without being banned from online play, is faster gold mining which is what I put in for them in the EoR changes.

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RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 10:59 AM ET (US)     31 / 47       
Why bother with compies?
You can have tons of S/T crunching down on everything. A mean swarm of minoan compies doesn't stand up to a decent Mace Hoplite+S/T combo.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 01:04 PM ET (US)     32 / 47       
RageOMatic:
Minoan compies don't stand up to a mace hoplite/hoplite combo either.
&nbps;
In fact, the only thing in bronze that kills mace hoplites is other hoplites, either carth or in greater number. Now tell me, what does mace have that does an awesome job on non-mace hoplites? Compies of course!

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HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 01:18 PM ET (US)     33 / 47       
I don't use STs unless I have to...their inherant weakness can be a severe stumbling block if I slip up or the enemy is good enough to shipe'em

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 04:11 PM ET (US)     34 / 47       
A lot of winning in bronze is by who can bring on the catapults asap. You want to start tearing buildings right after a villager-killing raid. They are also the key to killing the very common mass-archer armies. Hoppers+tons of S/T is a good bronze combo, adding cavalry or compies for villager killing is a good idea too. But unlike most players, i concentrate on taking buildings out quick.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 04:39 PM ET (US)     35 / 47       
RageOMatic:
I agree taking buildings out does a lot of hurt, but I find cats make a poor weapon most of the time. Did you try using a horde of slingers instead, or some AE if you're in iron? Much easier to manage, I think.

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HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 06:09 PM ET (US)     36 / 47       
hey, I said STs, not cats...cats are different, as in better. Still, I tend to use cats only as tower snipers and anti-archer weapons (but only when I'm using something that can stand up to their power for a while, or has good range itself.)

Cats and slingers make a unique combination, but you need a third unit to defend against mounted units. Cams do well of course. This makes a good follow up on a slinger rush, since you were already going for slingers.


HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 09-28-00 06:14 PM ET (US)     37 / 47       
HonoredMule:
That's one reason why I dislike ST's and cats even more. Well now, towers heh? Just convert them - and you'll want to see the face of your opponent. Much more interesting in my view. Apart from that, hoppers are often mentioned as defenders of ST's, if only becaue they are equally slow, but even then you have to take care they don't start maneuvers on their own.
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 08:24 PM ET (US)     38 / 47       
lol I'd like to see you sneak a group of priests up to guard towers (with monotheism) without them getting pelted in late bronze/early iron. Priests are another unit I only use in conjunction with elles (which I also use rather rarely) or against elles (which I rarely come up aginst).

In case you weren't aware, priests have a range of 0 when converting buildings.


HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 08:52 PM ET (US)     39 / 47       
Since a lot of the games on the zone are archer wars, any catapult of any sort is almost required.

wedsaz:
Slingers don't stand up to an angry swarm of compies nor CA. Plus catapults have the range factor, however catapults alone are very weak. You _need_ some sort of ofther weapon to use them well.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-28-00 10:01 PM ET (US)     40 / 47       
RageOMatic:
I've heard that if you have stone mining + bronze shield, slingers are still effective vs bronze archers. Mix them with some kind of melee unit such as cavs, and I think they'd probably do a good job. In any case, I was talking mostly about using them as a cheap alternatice to STs for cleaning up the ruins of an enemy town while the main army moves on.

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RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 00:51 AM ET (US)     41 / 47       
Ah, that could work. Slingers can definately take down buildings VERY quickly. They are kind of like archers against infantry, but their bonuses against buildings and archers make them very powerful in tool or bronze, even though few seem to use them.
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 10:24 AM ET (US)     42 / 47       
slingers and STs together work very well if you throw in just a few cams. Archers of any type don't stand a chance against that combo.

They've got to keep moving to avoid ST fire, and choose between hitting the slingers before they get close enough to do damage, and the cams which will slaughter them if they are allowed to gt close.

I'm going to do some equal resource testing on this...will let you know how that goes.


I wanna get accurate results though, so what combo do you think would stand up best aginst this? (keep in mind this is early bronze, just got STs, and the cams and slingers are already made)


HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?

[This message has been edited by HonoredMule (edited 09-29-2000).]

RageOMatic
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 11:36 AM ET (US)     43 / 47       
Replace camels with hoppers or cavalry and it should work quite well.
Centurion
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 01:12 PM ET (US)     44 / 47       
Your bronze time isn't all that important. If you get a fast tool age and get an army together at around 9mins your bronzing time doesn't matter (NB: Only in 1on1, in teams your enemies ally could help your enemy and if he bronzes before you you're in trouble, unless your ally kills you enemies ally). For this strat I usually use Palmy, even though it might be hard getting them started, you will be able to pull of a nice army once you reach tool or during the transition from stone to tool. It does work, and it's not all that hard at all.
HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 02:25 PM ET (US)     45 / 47       
I did some testing, and the results were inconclusive...equal resources of compies won every time, and the slingers were slaughtered...but because of the spreading the comp did, the STs didn't do very well either. However, I still guess I was wrong about slingers...they're useless against compies and CA, or anything in large numbers...in smaller, they were effective on an equal resource basis.

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 02:45 PM ET (US)     46 / 47       
HonoredMule:
See why I wanted to add that iron pellets thing, and wooden shield?
 
Centurion:
Unless I say so, I'm talking 2v2/3v3 huge/gigantic conti/medit default noreveal w/100 pop. I find that at those settings, tool rushes still work but it's risky to spend a lot on them.

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HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 09-29-00 05:21 PM ET (US)     47 / 47       
I stood behind those changes the whole time...didn't I? lol I can't even remember...but I wasn't contesting that now anyway...I was just trying to find a new way to use them effectively.

HonoredMule | HM | website = RoR Complete
73239774 = 73239774 | assassin@nbnet.nb.ca
--- Just want one thing, just to play the king.
--- But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name.
--- Where's your crown King Nothing?
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