You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
Moderated by Suppiluliuma, PhatFish, Fisk, EpiC_Anonymous, Epd999

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.92 replies
Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Beating Hittite Iron
Bottom
Topic Subject:Beating Hittite Iron
« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
Nineveh
Inactive
posted 12-17-98 07:21 AM ET (US)         
One word: How?

Is there any way on the damned planet to beat Hittite Iron? I have lost soooo many 3v3 cuz my Minoans, after smoking 2 out of 3 enemies, get blow away by a 60-villager Hittite who's been playing SimCity and now has
HHA
AE
EA
Hcats
Cents
Scythes..

And a kickin economy, AND bonuses!

I think ES dropped the ball on this one, but maybe there's a way to do it.
Anyone ever beaten a Hittite in iron of equal economy with any civ but Sumerian?


-Nineveh, "Minister for Compy Equality"
ICQ 16407576

AuthorReplies:
Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 12:49 PM ET (US)     51 / 92       
Not sure how relevant this is but I find that when playing with Egypt a 50/50 mix of chariots and chariot archers works much better then either alone.

The chariots work great against buildings/walls/stone throwers and the archers can pick off villagers and attack enemy units from a distance while the chariots engage them. If the fight is going well I will try to iron and immediatly get the scythe upgrade. I normally get all the bronze upgrades that I need/use before ironing though. After I get scythes I use them almost completely with just a few archers for added vision.

My fav civs are hittite/egypt/minoan I think all three are great civs from mid bronze on. I really like playing with civs that get stronger as the game goes on and not weaker. Since I often play with newbie partners, I also like civs that I feel I can beat 3 average-good AOE players at once with.


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 12:55 PM ET (US)     52 / 92       
YourOldFriend, you are describing a 2v1 situation. Perisa, backed by Food from another Civ, can take on hittite. So what if hittite is backed by another Civ? We are talking even matchups here. If persia needs another civ to help it beat Iron, then obviously it cant handle Hittite by itself. And what if Hittite has a Greek Partner? Greek can use Cents and heles to completely nullify your eles (even Priests if they want to.) Yes, even Greek can dominate Persia IMO. Especially in Iron. Im assuming Nineveh is discussing how to beat Hittite in an Even matchup.


Ex_Akaval
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 01:10 PM ET (US)     53 / 92       
I kicked Hittites ass in a DM, back in AoE tons of times. In RoR I did with sumi, could allways blame the opponent for not using Hittite right. But Hittite AEs can't get to Sumi cats due to a kick ass fire rate, mean while ordinary Sumi eles *****up hittite cats. And Sumi have a better economy because of the farm advantage, which leads into oppertunity off earlier Iron, larger army, upgrades. I thinks Sumi can take Hittite I done it before.


Cherub Shadow8357
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 01:36 PM ET (US)     54 / 92       
What if the Egyptian goes for an all-out Scythe rush? In my limited experience, Scythe Chariots are very good against any ranged land unit, with the possible exception of helepolis (which Hittite doesn't get). So, upgraded Egyptian Scythes and some CA start attacking, and the Hittite player builds melee units to counter. Now the Egyptian has a choice: add priests and try to protect them from enemy chariots, or increase the number of CA and hope the enemy HHA don't become too numerous.

So I was wondering:
1) What should the Hittite build against the Scythes?
2) What would the Egyptian do against the Hittite's counter unit(s)?


Sting
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 01:39 PM ET (US)     55 / 92       
I believe I have stated this on many seperate occasions. First of all, I would rather have 12 SCs and 12 HHAs compared to ohh...say 16 armored eles. Why? Because if you are playing against egypt your 16 eles will become 4 eles in no time, and those 4 will get chewed up by the other 12. However, I would like to see egypt use his priests against a horse archer scythe chariot combo. Horse archers are something egypt doesnt have, and this unit gives hittite a very large edge.

When I play I rarely build eles. In my opinion, they are easily countered and a waste of food. I would prefer to spend my resources on a more developed, difficult to counter army. The good ol SC-HA-Catapult army works well...


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 01:55 PM ET (US)     56 / 92       
Shadow, all hittite has to do is answer with their own SCs backed by their tremendous HHAs. But the real power with Hittite is that they can switch up so easily. one second they might handle your Scyths with Eles and Eles Archers with a few CA. The next your facing Scyths with HAs. Then dominated by Cats, Eles, and CAs. Etc Etc Etc... Where as here comes Egypt, who you know has either Chariots of some sort, Eles, or priests. Thats it.


D_yerMak_er
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 03:32 PM ET (US)     57 / 92       
the best way to beat a hittite in iron is take minoan and stuff the hittite in a corner during bronze, then use your major map control to squeeze the life from him

Dana_ri and I had 2 great games yesterday. We were both minoan vs 2 hittites the first game and 2 hittites AND a sumer the 2nd game(the 2 hittites were the same players from the first game)

Both games went iron, the second game was 2v3 for a VERY long time. In both games we took the minoan comps and just slowly took alot of land during bronze, the second game we double teamed 1 guy and took his little plot of land and 3!!! gold piles. He rebuilt and went iron. then our teammate resigned after being slaughted by the sum.

I noticed it is very hard for Hittite to pump 4 or 5 ST at a time when they are making chariot archers and also having to biuld farms.

in both games we felt like we were gonna lose because all of the enemy got to iron. In the 2nd game the sum and 1 of the hittites got heavy cats well before dana and i did.
the 2nd game went a little longer than a hour and a half, with everyone getting iron around the 30 min mark....

Both games were VERY intense battles that never seemed to end. IMO, minoans cheap army of comps won both games. Becasue of the intense battles and hundreds of cats and heavy cats. they couldn't get HEAVY horse archers, and minoan's farm bonus is nothing to brush off in a heavy Cat battle.

Dyer


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 04:15 PM ET (US)     58 / 92       
D_yer,
I think you and Dana won that becuase of superior skill not because of minoan advantages. In my experience minoan is at a severe disadvantage to both summers and especially hittite in late iron. Minoan comps are pretty much useless once the enemy gets catapults. And while minoans get very good catapults they will get slaughtered by 300hp hittite heavy cats.
I never play minoan if one of my opponents is hittite .


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 04:27 PM ET (US)     59 / 92       
Speaking of Hittite...I think the strongest army in the game is probably a mix of Hittite heavy cats/elephant archers with a priest or 2 walking behind. With the priests healing your units you can fight battles and never loose a unit . Its also a very slow and expensive army...I will normally go for hittite horse archers instead.


Phreakdaddy
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 04:54 PM ET (US)     60 / 92       
I know a way to beat Hittite iron. Be the host, turn on cheats at the last moment, and hope no one notices. Kind of funny that Hittite almost certainly has the strongest iron in the game when if you look at the timeline it shows Hittite to exist only in the middle bronze period, where the just begin to get strong. Of course, Shang is shown to be a mid to late bronze power...


pHrEaKdAdDyyDdAdPHREAK

D_yerMak_er
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 04:55 PM ET (US)     61 / 92       
i thought they were pretty good.

You missed the point just a tad, yes, minoan is very weak in late iron against sum and hittite. But not unbeatable. we had kept the pressure on sooo much throughout the game. Dana and I used the compies as distraction with the Cats, since they were so cheap, we could afford it. They on the other hand could not afford to produce enough HA since it was such a heavy cat fight, much more like a Dm than a RM. Minoan is very under-rated as a iron civ, IMO. compies backing minoan cats are a very good combo. esp since they move near the same speed, makes it alot easier to spread the comps when enemy cats come around. And once our cats fight their cats, our comps seemed to be very affective as decoys or targeting closer ranged enemy units.

Dyer


General_Yamo
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 09:41 PM ET (US)     62 / 92       
Ender - Egypt's CAs can take 3 ST hits and so it takes 3 of them 5 sec's or 1 of them 15 sec's to take it down. That is a huge difference. I don't see how Egypt CA > Hittie CA + Egypt CA > Hittie ST = Egypt CA < Hittie CA and ST!!! Did it 3 times in scenario editor and with nobility the CAs beat the STs without even bothering to dogde rocks. Wow there are a lot of Hittites coming out to fight for the cause here!


Sting
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 10:19 PM ET (US)     63 / 92       
I dont know about the others, but I have no fuggin clue what your talkin about general yamo...


The Conkster
Inactive
posted 12-24-98 00:29 AM ET (US)     64 / 92       
I agree with sting


Conk wuz here!

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 02:25 AM ET (US)     65 / 92       
Ditto.


Keep your stick on the ice.

postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 05:58 AM ET (US)     66 / 92       
WoW. I dont know either. Well, let me address some posts I do know.

Dyer...
Minoan Iron is Strong without a doubt, but I dont think it compares to Hittite. There actually wont be a need for Hittite to get close to your Cats in Iron. They can just keep producing their own Cats ehich are twice as resiliant as yours. Minoan has nothing to charge into their cats (besides Cavs and Camels, which will get eaten up by a decent size HA or HHA backup) which means on equal resources their really isnt much competition. Now Im not really going into Bronze too much here because the main discussion is just beaten Hittite in Iron (although it has been getting a bit off track at times.) But Hittite Bronze is definately not shabby to say the least. I do think however that Minoan is greatly outpowered by Summer and Hittite. Again, they just dont have that much to work with hagainst those cats.


General_Yamo
Inactive
posted 12-24-98 12:20 PM ET (US)     67 / 92       
I guess I should've given up reasoning a while ago, but 1 last word to clarify.... Read all of the above arguments where it's claimed Hittie CA's beat Egypt's and Hittie ST's beat Egyptian CAs (for the cost.) I have no idea what y'all are going on about if you keep disagreeing with these easily verifiable facts! I surrender! My bottom line still is - Hittites should be beaten by almost half the civs in the game before they reach iron and that's really the only answer I can think of to the question asked. However, if your opinions are that you can regularly build up 5 STs while making all those CAs to fend off Minoan compies we seem to be playing in real different games and it does little to continue the discussion...


Ender
Guest
posted 12-24-98 12:32 PM ET (US)     68 / 92       
Hittite stone throwers crush minoan comps, but if you can stop the hittite from having a strong economy and the minoan does have a strong economy you can beat them in bronze, which is posible on the sea maps. But I tend to agree with Emowilli, I bet you and dana were better than them.


Yamo you obviosly have never done a chariot archer vs chariot archer+ stone thrower battle. First off stone throwers hit more than 1 chariot archer at a time, from my experience they hit 3. An all chariot archer army is absolutely trashed by a mixed chariot archer/stone thrower army. And vs hittite usually a few chariots doesn't even help since the stone throwers have so many hits. If you are talking 1 on 1, a hittite st kills an egyptian CA in 15 seconds... it takes an egyptian chariot archer 150/4=37.5 shots to kill the stone thrower, a chariot archer shoots once every 1.4 seconds or something around that... that means it takes them 52.5 seconds. It takes 3 chariot archers 17.5 seconds, which means that the stone thrower will kill 3 chariot archers alone if the chariot archers are bunched up. The more stone throwers the more this battle ends up favoring the stone throwers, becuase of the extra range and area damage.


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 01:06 PM ET (US)     69 / 92       
Well I just tested it in the scenario editor.
It was 7 egyptian chariots with 7+1 range and nobility vs 3 hittite stone throwers. The hittite won with 1 stone thrower left and 118hps on it. I controlled the chariot archers and let the computer control the stone throwers. Even using concentrated fire the computer still won.


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 01:16 PM ET (US)     70 / 92       
I just tried it one more time this time the hittites won with 148hp's on the last stone thrower . About to try it again using dodging tactics cause I really want to win!..

Wooo this time had 6 chariot archers left .
So it definantly appears dodging can work damn well. I was able to dodge almost all the stones while playing against just 3 of them at 1.0 speed. Soo dodge away if you are fighting them with chariot archers.

Going to try again giving the hittite 2 chariot archers and 3 stone throwers vs my 7 human controlled egyptian chariot archers.....Ok 5 egyptian chariot archers left.

I think this sheds more light on intelligent control of you units in battle then the hittite vs egyptian debate.


Angel Omnivac
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 01:20 PM ET (US)     71 / 92       
Hmmm, a few thoughts...

Hittites don't have Slingers. It's a good time to kill them, or slow them down. Hittite Bowmen are better against slingers but it is usually not enough.

About the "sucky" Persians. They're still underestimated in my opinion. They're the second best Tool rushers of the game, and on some maps can compete against Shangs for the Toll Rushers From Hell title, and even be better in some occasion. Persian Hunters will skin animals far more faster than Shangs economize 15 food each 20 seconds. Itt's also the only way to have Persians manageable later in the game. You need to be good at micromanaging, to maximize your economy (with more animal hunting than usual) and attacking at the same time, and pursuing the enemy. Persians should gain their advantages there against Hittites.

This is obviously in a 1v1 games, where in 3v3 or 4v4, Persians are even more manageable because you have allies.

Angel Omnivac

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 01:56 PM ET (US)     72 / 92       
Technically, I suppose it's cheating, but if you are playing Persia, have your more farming-literate allies (Sumi, if he will do it) build farms around your graineries. Switch to neutral and monotheism makes Persia have mega farms, too.


Keep your stick on the ice.

D_yerMak_er
Inactive
posted 12-24-98 02:06 PM ET (US)     73 / 92       
you guys are taking my post wrong....Let me restart it

OK, hittite Cats are better than minoan, no doubt. But it's not like you have to outnumber them 2 to 1 esp when you have 10 or more figting. The thing is, just a tad more micromanagement or just outnmbering the hittite or sum Cats by 2 or 3 cats is enough to push them back. It doesn't require WAY better skills to do this. Fighting on 2 fronts and trying to keep your economy going with intense battles and lots of units makes it very easy to lose cat battles. Alot of it was lucky timing and key stategic moves early and late in the game. IMO, we won with minoan becasue we didn't have to worry about gold and food as much as they did to support our secondary units-archers. I think we were slightly better than them in fact that we were more effiecent in very late iron. As they ran out of gold before we did. I don't how much yall play DM, but anytime you have a lees superior army, use the cost effectivness of your weaker army to win the resource battle and jsut hang on till they are out. Neither guy coyuld upgrade to scythes, because if they had saved up those huge amounts of wood and gold, that means they weren't pumping Cat ands HA. Thus we would have ran over them It was truly a great game.

I will say this, if the hittite is waging little or no war until he gets iron, he will run over any civ in the game, ANY. IMO, economy wins 95% games and superior units win 5%.

One more note I have really been meaning to add..what do you guys think of having villager count limits? i think this would definatly add a little spice to the game. Like the most villagers that can be made is 50, maybe 45. I think this would be a cool option to have. atleast to give a try anyway. I wish ES would make a patch to fix alot of the unbalances of RoR.
Dyer


Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 02:18 PM ET (US)     74 / 92       
Odd, Dyer. I had wondered about that a while ago but from a different angle. I thought it would be neat to have the unit limit apply only to the number of military and let the economy boom to whatever it wants. On the down side, I was a little afraid of 600 Jihad & Siegecraft villies showing up at my walls... Limiting economies, though, just levels the playing field somewhat between an average and a good economy manager. If you overbuild economy for your management skills, it is just wasted money. And having 30,000 of each resource in the bank at the end of the game is just wasted.

I guess what I am getting at is that you have to base your economy on what your military style is. If you send out huge numbers of expendable troops, you need a great economy. It is less important if you can micromanage a smaller group of l33t d00ds.


Keep your stick on the ice.

Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-24-98 02:42 PM ET (US)     75 / 92       
Well my experience fighting hittite heavy cats with normal cats or heavy cats is that you loose all yours and only damage theirs . Thats why I think hittite has such a advantage. Hittite normal cats are pretty much equivelent to any good cats civ normal cats..its the heavy ones with 300hp's that are killer.


« Previous Page  1 2 3 4  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires Heaven | HeavenGames