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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Topic Subject: Getting a good game in the Non-Rated Room
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posted 12-14-98 01:20 PM ET (US)   
There have been a number of posts where people have lamented that in order to get a good game you have to play in the rated rooms where, unfortunately, cheating is rampant. I have been the victim of plenty of cheaters myself and became sufficiently discouraged not to play rated. It's just not fun spending the 20-30 min of hunting and launching required to get into a game just to have it wasted by a cheater. Not to mention the impact on your rating which is your ticket to play in those "good games" everyone is talking about.

So how do you get a good game in a non-rated room? Well, one way to get at least a decent game is to take on clans. Clans tend to be reasonably discriminatory and, while standards vary, most folks at least have read and can practice the crappy bronze strategy. In order to get good games and good partners I joined Phantom. We go around to the extent possible challenging other clans in order to get "good games".

I acknowledge that there are a ton of "independents" out there many of whom are better than most of the clan members. I don't believe any of the RoR finalists was a clan member. However, these folks are hard to pick out simply by looking at their names. If you didn't know who Kleitus was could you tell how tough he was by his name?

Anyways, clans are easy to pick out by their names. Even if you have only one buddy you know and can count on you can go around trying to kick clan butt. Independents love to do this - as in "We kicked clan butt - 9 9 9". (course, if you get together with the same guys all the time to do it, you are a clan, just without a name).

Heck, come to Quirinal and take us on. We are around pretty regularly and have played a few hundred games each. You may find the game entertaining.

Phantom_Beowolf (aka Space Viking)

posted 12-14-98 03:01 PM ET (US)     1 / 48  
Viking, you're quite right. It's really a huge amount of luck to get a good game. The rated rooms should be a nice place to find evenly set opponents, but people really screwed it up. The rating system doesn't help, indeed...

Whenever I find a cool opponent (not just good, but nice) I add him to my friends list. Even so, our time zones make us play in different hours and I'm always playing with people I don't know. It's a nice idea to go for a clan. I only have to find a bunch of nice guys who play on the same schedule as I do... :-)


posted 12-14-98 03:14 PM ET (US)     2 / 48  

The ROR finalists are/were part of clans. I guess you refers to RUmble for Rome?

Methos is in the Shai'Tan clan

Seasian and The_Sheriff are both in the Arts_Clan (they are teammates).

maimin_matty is in the Praetor clan I think. He was in the Xperts too for some time. I think he still is.

Joining a clan is a good way to get games going. Like Jaheed said, any decent and honest players you meet on the zone, add them to your friends' list. Go also in events like the Heaven Forummers meeting on Saturday in the Rise of Rome Palatine Room (1 PM EST and later at 10 PM EST). You can play with a lot of good players, and Palatine room is usually empty which is perfect to meet.

Angel Omnivac

posted 12-15-98 07:20 AM ET (US)     3 / 48  
The final roster for the Xperts was Myself, Turanos, Out4Blood, piepie, emowilli, Xpert101, Xpert202 and mammin_matty.

I don't think we are actually a team anymore, but we do play together whenever we get the chance. I may have forgotten someone, its been a while.

posted 12-15-98 08:40 AM ET (US)     4 / 48  
Put ppl you had good games against/with in your friends list (doh ). Put experts which you heard names of also in your friends list, but don't ******and cry and whine and moan if they don't wanna play with ya


posted 12-15-98 12:20 PM ET (US)     5 / 48  
I effectively have to deal with cheaters on the zone, just like you guys. I played over a hundred games in rated rooms and had to face only 4-5 cheaters... I think some people here are exagerating about cheaters... If you add all nice players you meet, you're going to end up with 75+ ppl on your list and you will not recall who they are... My opinion about non-rated rooms is worst than rated rooms for the unique and only reason that it is flooded by newbies and rookies of all origins... When you play in a rated room, team up with your friends, at least the cheater will not come from your own team and then turn on you...

When the host unclick, unclick too, it will prevent him from changing the settings and then start the game immediatly. There is nothing you can do about a host booting a player just before launching the game... if it happen, at least report him to the zmaster.



posted 12-15-98 01:52 PM ET (US)     6 / 48  
Ok, can someone please post specific examples of cheating?

Is it nuking?

Is it changing the game speed throughout the game?

Is it additional programs that hack the game like what happened to Diablo?

Is there something I am missing?

What is considered cheating??? Everyone says people in rated rooms cheat, I want to know what that means...

I have played in AOE rated rooms but I have yet to play in ROR rated rooms, I want to know what to look for...


posted 12-15-98 11:11 PM ET (US)     7 / 48  
Again, it is strong opinion night for me !
Personally , I WON'T GO NEAR a rated room since 3 months ago when I was dropped in 40% of my clearly won games in AOE rated rooms.. then one game I was nuked.. another game both opponents disc'd at start in 2v2 and I said let's go back and quit and 17 minutes later my jerk and ex-pard finished killing their 3 peons each and I lost rating points too. Nope, come play in Quirinal,,, and BTW , DM'ers pls show enough respect to play DM's in DM room to save space in Quirinal ! - neilkaz of strong opinions -

posted 12-16-98 07:11 AM ET (US)     8 / 48  
I tried to play in the non-rated room for a while. In about 10 games I got 0 that were good games. I remember back in the non-rated rule the world days, took about 30 minutes to an hour to find a game and then you only played with people you knew in general. Its just too annoying wasting 30 minutes playing someone that is tool when your iron. Sure the rating rooms aren't perfect, but if you get you rating to 1700 you usually can find good games. Most people rated 1700 or over are either pretty good players, or they don't want to play good players so they can up their ratings. I've had very little problems with nukers, and who cares if they drop, they would of lost anyway.

posted 12-16-98 10:49 AM ET (US)     9 / 48  
Well I'm a good player and I pretty much always play in the unrated rooms. The secret to getting a good game is simply playing with people you know. I guess I know a lot of people so its not that hard. Also putting EXPERT on the title helps quite a bit(sometimes you get people who think they are but aren't).

I feel like the rated rooms take away sooo much of the fun from the game. For instance in a unrated 3vs3 game last week my teamates and myself were obviously far better then my oponents. Two of the oponents resigned early
and the third was dying at the hands of my teamates. So I switched alliances and took on both of my teamates at once :-). It turned out to be quite a fun game that I won.

In contrast, my experience in rated games is that they are very inflexible. I played 3 rated games the other day and in everyone of them 1 or more of my teamates got disconnected. In all 3 cases I ended up with a loss, definantly not fun .

One thing I definantly miss is the FFA. Some of my funest games have been FFA but its very hard lately to find good people who want to do them. There is nothing more satisfying then beating 5 people in a single game. :-)

posted 12-16-98 12:01 PM ET (US)     10 / 48  
One other way to get good non rated games is to do 2vs3's 2vs4's etc. In the old days I even won a few 1vs5's but the average caliber of AOE players has gone up quite a bit since then .

Even bad players seem to be making 40 villagers now days so it can be pretty rough.

posted 12-16-98 12:47 PM ET (US)     11 / 48  
Do you want to know what I think of non-rated rooms? Here it is:

Yesterday, I played a 3v3 and I took a civ that I am not used to play (Yammy). I had the worst game of my life. I took me a long time to find my first food spot and I had my 20th villager around 8:30... That's pretty bad... I hit the tooled button at 11:00 and an assy player was already in tool... The timeline of 2 other players were normal. I thought i'd be dead as soon as these guys would be in bronze. I clicked the bronze button at about 16:00 (horrible!!!) My villagers had to walk miles and miles to find food... Believe it or not, i've been the first to bronze and the second player to bronze did it at about 21:00... I sent 3 cavs to that assy player so kill his villagers and performed an awesome villager booming. When I had produced 50 villies, the first attack came... 3 archers... duh... I ironed at 32:000 with all the bronze technologies already researched... In iron, i've been attacked by 3 cavs... When I've been fed up enough to play my "economic challenge game" (70 villies), I took my 30 cataphracs and killed them all... THAT GAME SUCKED!!!


posted 12-16-98 04:23 PM ET (US)     12 / 48  
Uh, did that past experience have anything to do with the fact that you were playing in a non-rated room? Or am I slow for not realizing that it's a joke?


Oops, forget that. Hehe

[This message has been edited by Calvin (edited 12-16-98).]

posted 12-16-98 05:38 PM ET (US)     13 / 48  
I thought I was clear enough. That past experience happenned in a non-rated room . I had many poor games like that in non-rated rooms...

I would never had such an experience in a rated room with players having a rating not too far from mine (lets say 150 points)...

I played that game in NRR just because of this thread. I wanted to reconfirm to myself that NRR are still what they used to be... A Rooky or Newby MAGNET...

Got me now??

posted 12-16-98 07:18 PM ET (US)     14 / 48  
I am not a rookie. I am not a newbie. I play non-rated rooms all the time. I have played twice in rated rooms, and simply dont like them. Not only is the competition "stiff", but the abandon system is screwy. I can agree to the fact that non-rated doesnt _always_ offer the competition, but it can have some very good players.

I normally name my game room no rookies, and have found many challenging players. By saying that nonrated is merely for rookies is completely untrue...

posted 12-16-98 07:30 PM ET (US)     15 / 48  
I occasionally play in the rated rooms, mainly to keep an eye out on some of the new strategies being employed. Rated room players are more "technical", what I mean by that is they have set strategies, that they use on set map types and settings. You will see a lot of med games in rated because people have worked out sophisticated build orders and strategies to win with.

I would say it is generally less fun and people are generally more uptight in rated rooms.That is not to say I havent had some epic great fun games there, I have had many, but it is much funner to play with friends and goof around a little more, then to be against opponents who get very angry, and do speed hiking.

posted 12-16-98 11:12 PM ET (US)     16 / 48  
I feel very strongly both ways.



[This message has been edited by Abraxas (edited 12-16-98).]

posted 12-17-98 00:21 AM ET (US)     17 / 48  
I am not saying that that good players should not go into NRR nor that there's no good players in NRR. You are not less of a player because you play in NRR. What I am saying is "The game level, in average, is much lower in NRR than in RR". It is true that RR does not produce great relationships. Ppl are not very friendly, in general. It might take longer to start a game in RR cuz ppl want to be in the stacked team.

My opinion is the following: it just depend what you are looking for (level of play or nice ppl). Personnaly, I am looking for ppl who are going to kick my butt extremely badly, so I can improve my level of play and become someday... an expert...


posted 12-17-98 03:29 AM ET (US)     18 / 48  
Here is a tip to solve some of the cheating problems. If the Host is your enemy (Team 1), then all the players on Team 2 should not click in until the Host has done so. If he "UnClicks" for any reason then everyone on the other team should "UnClick" too (as stated). IF a Host starts making demands about clicking in then expect something (Cheating/Booting) and leave. The Host is just another player in the game and there are many different games going on. Take the power form the Rude/Cheating Hosts by not falling for the OLD tricks.

Make sure that the players on your side are your allies. I have played a few games (2/2 and 3/3) where one of my allies was actually a friend of the enemy and taking a loss on his "I don't care about it" Zone Name or Allying up after you are dead. Most of the time this "Ally" will go into the Gather resources mode knowing that the enemy will not be attacking and feeding your foes. The only defense is KNOW who you are playing with. (AND get the Writing Upgrade as soon as possible...)

I am glad that AoE RoR shows the game setting after it starts. In AoE, if a game started without me seeing the final game settings (Host click in, start) or I forgot to look. I would always go to the CHAT and turn off everyone (ally and enemy) and type in COINAGE. If my little gold counter clicked 1K, then it is Fun Time for me...
I turned off all chat because of Spelling, Alerting the Enemy, and panicking other players (friend/foe) if the cheats were not on.

I like playing AoE with everyone and anyone. It is the best way to learn new tactics. I joined the Lords Clan because I liked the players and their noble style. As for the rated, I have played in the RRs and my score has gone up and down for various reasons, some of the very reasons you are complaining about. But, My score does not mean that I am an expert, great, good, or bad player. The only thing it means is that I have played in the RRs... :-) IMMHO
I don't like the RRs because of the Head Hunter Style of playing. Face it - if you are playing in there you are looking to WIN and some players will do whatever it takes. YES, we all want to win and that is the name of the game regardless of where/how you play. But, In the NRRs you don't have that "Great Rating System/Score" to worry/complain about which means less stress.

The New Player complaint is somewhat unjustified. It is just a game and new players are learning too. If you have a problem with a new player ally, then get ready to use your Expert Skills and pull up the slack. Everyone seems to be looking for a CHALLENGE, so with a new player you get it. After the game take a second to pass on your game knowledge (if they accept). I have offered my help/tips many times. Most Clans will not take a player unless he/she is very good (EXPERT). In the Lords, we accept a player as long as they are willing to train and improve as a team.

Enjoy the Game!

[This message has been edited by Lords_Infantry (edited 12-17-98).]

posted 12-17-98 12:31 PM ET (US)     19 / 48  
When I play in rated rooms, I play very often with ppl I know AND I HOST THE GAME!!! Try to cheat against that!! The only thing left is to nuke me!! ahahahah

Yesterday I played in RR. At the very start of the game I accidently DELETED MY TOWN CENTER!!!! AARrrrgggghhhh!!! When I told that to my unknown partner, he was yelling at me and telling me that I was a good damn newby and "How did you do that??!!" and stuff !! ROFL! He left the game shortly after. When I told my 2 ennemies what happened to me, they agreed to ally, so I WON!! My rating increased by 15 points with that great victory.... There are many nice players in rated rooms too! lol


[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 12-17-98).]

posted 12-18-98 00:22 AM ET (US)     20 / 48  
What i do know in Rated Rooms, i just started playing a couple of days ago, is go to expert rooms people are nice there and you can have a good competetive games, i also never play bymyself in there, thats just too dangerous, also try to pick out nice people from bad people by trying to see there attidude... So far i had some fun games in Rated Rooms. In Quirinal i kept getting newbies for my allies, and it started to annoy me.

posted 12-20-98 02:33 AM ET (US)     21 / 48  
I always play non-rated and i think im a pretty good player, ive traveled into the rated rooms from time to time and found that it takes forever to actually get a game going because of people complaining about settings or teams or other unfair things. The rated rooms has its share of idiots too. Problem with non-rated is it is extremely hard to find good players unless you know them. Every room i enter i insist on the host puttin no rooks on the settings and when i get into the game i realized that i some how wandered into a rook game. Rookies believe that since they beat the computer on moderate only using pepperoni pizza and e=mc2 trooper a few times makes them a decent player. My point is it is hard to find a decent game in non-rated but it is better then getting stuck with a bunch of shmucks in the rated rooms trying to find a way to bolster their rating

posted 12-20-98 12:19 PM ET (US)     22 / 48  
Hey phil, if you guys ally up doesnt that show up as a team change or an incomplete on your record and not give you any points?

Thats how I thought it worked anyways...

posted 12-20-98 05:44 PM ET (US)     23 / 48  
Over all i at this area of thought..i play rated rooms some times, but i've been nuke dno less than 4 times in 5 games. 3 of these were DMS and the other i rushed. I've discovered that quirnal is full of rookies true, but as more peopel get RoR i suspect the rooks will migrate to the rook rooms the dmers will migrate to the Dm rooms and Quirnal will blossom with decent players. Phil your a sterotypical Ass(excuse my laungauge.) Saying everybody in Quirnal has a bad attitude and/or is a Newbie. Rated rooms are oen of the most fecund breeding pits of scum who are so stuck up. Many peopel don't allow peopel who might suck(me) but liek standard 1.0 games because i have my sorry ratign of 1550. and to play others i meet people who nuke you, play 2.0 or conquest. my greatest games have been at forum parties

posted 12-20-98 05:50 PM ET (US)     24 / 48  
It's difficult to express in words how much I truly loathe the rated rooms, but let me give it a try. Things that stink about the rated rooms:

1. One setting only players. Just try to get a game on anything but default resources in a rated room. Just try.
2. Cheaters
3. One setting only players. Just try to get a player in a rated room to play at anything other than his favorite "inland default" or "mediterranean" setting. Try to play islands. Just try.
4. Disconnectors
5. One setting only players. Just try to get a player in an AOE rated room to play some civ other than Assy. Just try to get a player in a ROR rated room to play some civ other than Shang. Just try.
6. Nukers
7. One setting only players.
8. Lame newbies.
9. One setting only players.
10. Arrogant eleven year olds who think that the 4-digit number in front of their fake names is more important than life itself.
11. One setting only players.
12. You have to wait forever to get a game started, because someone is always complaining about the teams.
13. One setting only players.

Some of the players from the rated rooms gave their argument of what is wrong with the non-rated rooms higher up in this thread. I believe their argument was:
1. Lame newbies.
(hmmmmm, this looks a lot like problem number 8 in the rated rooms)

In the non-rated rooms you have a work around this problem too. When I play with blank, or gutter_rat, or some other good player, we will play on *opposite* teams, to try to even up the teams. We've had a ton of great games this way by trying to always "balance" the teams before we start.

Just try going to a rated room and balancing the teams. See how willing the set teams are to break up in the interest of fairness and a good game. After all, that 4-digit number is *far* more important to a rated room player than having a good, fun, interesting, or competitve game.


[This message has been edited by qwksnd (edited 12-20-98).]

posted 12-21-98 07:26 AM ET (US)     25 / 48  
If someone doesn't want to play non-default settings, don't play with them, its not hard to advertise what kind of game you are looking for even in rated rooms. If you are finding games in the non-rated rooms by only playing with friends, why not do that in the rated rooms it works just as well? I play in the rated rooms because more good players are easier to find there, I don't play in the major non-rated room because its always full, and I can't judge how good anyone I don't know is.

Not saying anything wrong with non-rated, just saying that I haven't seen a valid argument for how to get a good non-lamer game in it that wouldn't of worked for you in the rated room.

As for people not wanting to spit up, why not play with all players of generally the same skill, its by far the most fun way to play.

[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 12-21-98).]

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