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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Getting a good game in the Non-Rated Room
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Topic Subject:Getting a good game in the Non-Rated Room
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Space_Viking
Inactive
posted 12-14-98 01:20 PM ET (US)         
There have been a number of posts where people have lamented that in order to get a good game you have to play in the rated rooms where, unfortunately, cheating is rampant. I have been the victim of plenty of cheaters myself and became sufficiently discouraged not to play rated. It's just not fun spending the 20-30 min of hunting and launching required to get into a game just to have it wasted by a cheater. Not to mention the impact on your rating which is your ticket to play in those "good games" everyone is talking about.

So how do you get a good game in a non-rated room? Well, one way to get at least a decent game is to take on clans. Clans tend to be reasonably discriminatory and, while standards vary, most folks at least have read and can practice the crappy bronze strategy. In order to get good games and good partners I joined Phantom. We go around to the extent possible challenging other clans in order to get "good games".

I acknowledge that there are a ton of "independents" out there many of whom are better than most of the clan members. I don't believe any of the RoR finalists was a clan member. However, these folks are hard to pick out simply by looking at their names. If you didn't know who Kleitus was could you tell how tough he was by his name?

Anyways, clans are easy to pick out by their names. Even if you have only one buddy you know and can count on you can go around trying to kick clan butt. Independents love to do this - as in "We kicked clan butt - 9 9 9". (course, if you get together with the same guys all the time to do it, you are a clan, just without a name).

Heck, come to Quirinal and take us on. We are around pretty regularly and have played a few hundred games each. You may find the game entertaining.

Phantom_Beowolf (aka Space Viking)


AuthorReplies:
Hamilton
Inactive
posted 12-21-98 10:37 AM ET (US)     26 / 48       
I can see that there are others that have the same problem I have... There are too many jerks playing this fine game on the zone.

That's why I've become tired of AoE/RoR and almost only play Half-Life & Quake 2.

Perhaps I should try to play people on my ICQ-list instead, but you guys play the "wrong hours".
Cheers,

((( Hamilton )))


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 01:28 PM ET (US)     27 / 48       
qwksnd
If you play against lame newbies in a rated rooms, it's because your an idiot. Look at the little 4 digit number next to the players name and reject everything that is lower than 1700 and 40 games played. You wont get any newbies including cheating newbies. Concerning cheaters,. If you host a game and play with ppl you know, you can be victim of a cheat only by a nuker. GO TO the microsoft site and download the patches for ip security (dotless ip) and some other stuff. It will get rid of nukers.... You should not care about playing in an unbalanced team cuz if you loose you will loose less rating points. If you win the game you win more points. At the end, it evens things. Concerning settings, advertise them, you'll get players anyway... Disconnectors happens in any room, rated or not... BTW, play a 2v2 instead of 3v3, the disconnection rate is much lower.

I played in an unbalanced game the other day and pulled the best game of my life even though I lost. I learned that I should have walled that little section of the map to allow me to die slowlyer because my partners were not helping me. And you know what, I did a great bronzing time and I bronzed 1:30 before everybody and had the most kills. All the players were between 1740 and 1900. Isn't that great to have confirmed that you a good player even though you loose? Try to have such a confirmation in a non-rated room...


Phil

[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 12-22-98).]

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 01:32 PM ET (US)     28 / 48       
Sting
what you say is true with the improvement made to the rating system. However I am still playing AoE and theses changes were not in effect at the moment I played that game.

Phil



Sting
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 05:29 PM ET (US)     29 / 48       
I think earlier qwksnd illustrated a lot of the points of why I dont like rated rooms. However I would like to touch up one point...Phil you said "isnt that great to have confirmation that you are a good player even tho you loose?" and then you said "try to find that in a non rated room"

well play a game, label it "no rookies", and you can watch as you may very well play the best game youve played all week.
Lets talk about common courtesy (or in rated rooms, lack thereof)...how many games does the host say "gla" or "gg" at the end of the game, regardless of whether he has won or lost (in rated rooms)

I have nothing against the rated rooms or the players who play in them, but from my experience with rated rooms they are just not my style. If you like that kind of gameplay, with the same boring default settings that the host is used to, then by all means do that.


PainSupplier
Inactive
posted 12-22-98 06:03 PM ET (US)     30 / 48       
I totally agree with you guys. Every time I go to play in a rated room in the Zone, every one looks at your rating and either kicks you out or plays with you and cheats ( building wonders when everyone in the game has agreed on not building wonders or just allying 3 vs. 1) I hate winning 5 games in a row on the non-rated rooms and then going to the rated rooms and get beaten by a bunch of cheaters. It really pisses a good player off. We're just trying to play a game and supply major pain why does everyone have to be such an ass. I still haven't met anyone who can beat me playing by the preset rules. My game crashes after 30 min in multiplayer but most of the time I have won the game by then. People think I quit on games but it is just that my game crashes. This affects my rating and makes the rated room experience even worse.

Looking for a good quick 20 min game. Look for Pain_Supplier in the Zone.


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 07:45 PM ET (US)     31 / 48       
You cannot find such a confirmation in a NRR. When you play i a NRR, you do not have a clue of what your opponent might be worth. You barely have an idea at the end of the game. Even though you advertise "no rookies", this is not sufficient to keep newbies out. If you play a player rated 1950 with 210 games, you know this guy is damn good. First, you cannot cheat 210 games without being know by the entire AoE/RoR community and second, ratings means something. I already posted a very long thread in the Veni Vidi Vici forum to explain ratings in detail. I've been a competition chess player for many years and the rating system the zone is using has been borrowed from the international chess rating system (ELO). I dop not want to start this discution again but here are the main point you have to remember concerning AoE/RoR ratings:

AoE/RoR ratings are a little bit less accurate than the chess system rating. First you can have over-rated players (cheaters) and under-rated players (a good player create a new logon). If you play against an overr-rated player, it is great for you cuz the guy is definitly weaker than his rating. If you play against an under-rated player, he will probably cause you a surprise and even beat you. Under-rated players are what you do not want to play with. Fortunatly, everybody protects his rating so there are only few sharks (under-rated). If you play against a cheater and he does not succeed to cheat (you've been wise, paranoid?), you're going to kick his ass and gain a lot of points, so cheaters should not bother you as long as they do not succed to cheat against you.

I really do not experience the problem you have in rated rooms. I have played, at this exact moment, 126 AoE rated games. You can verify this by going to zone/ratings and look at my 2 logons (Phil_The_Great=90 and aRc_PhilGreat=46). Out of these 126 games, I faced only 5 cheaters and 2 disconnections (cable modem hehe... ). So, the cheater problem is not that common if you are being cautious (3.97% according to my experience). It is true it takes a little bit longer to start a game in rated room since ppl do not want to play in the "weaker" team. With these 126 games, I developed an instinct of "which game have chances to start soon". I do not stay in a room where rating discrepancies are high ( > 100). You know some players are going to bail the game in the "pick your civ" room. BTW, do not protect your rating. If you play in unbalanced teams, you're going to be under-rated. Then you'll play with ppl weaker than you but with equivalent ratings. You're going to make your team to win with your superior skills (I experienced it) and got your rating higher a little bit. If you do not protect your ratings, my gut feeling and my experience tells me that you're going to be under-rated of about 20-50 permanently. Do you care? No! You're still improving cuz you play very often in the weaker team and must get better each time in order to win. You want to improve quickly? GO TO RATED ROOMS FOR THAT!!.

Lets talk about courtesy. I found that, the higher your rating is and the higher your opponent's ratings are, less unethical players you get (should I say more professional?). Personnaly, I rarely trash talk (I brag though). I trash talk only when I want somebody to wake up... I might tell him he's an idiot...

Phil

[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 12-22-98).]

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 08:00 PM ET (US)     32 / 48       
PainSupplier
I forgot to tell you, I added you to my friend list. With your 1532 rating (2 vic, 8 losses, 1 incomplete) I feel very confident I am going to kick your ass and show you humility (me: 72 vic, 53 losses, 1 incomplete)... and like you said, the game is not going to last more than 20 minutes... Next time, do not talk like a good player when you're just a rooky... Ender and Kleitus can do that, not you...

Phil



Nineveh
Inactive
posted 12-22-98 10:47 PM ET (US)     33 / 48       
Guess what, Phil? You've just been official ranked as an ********on Nineveh's "guide to people"

Guide to People
1. Normal: Everyone except #2
2. Asshole: High-and-mighty god of AoE who enjoys dumping on wannabe-intermediates who have already mentioned being cheated on repeatedly. See Phil_the_Great


Seriously, why?

Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 11:29 PM ET (US)     34 / 48       
I'd love to play you phil. You should have a easy time with me since I must suck with a 1580ish rating . Be a good test of just how accurate these ratings are. I won't be back on a computer with ROR on it till Jan 4th though.


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 11:34 PM ET (US)     35 / 48       
I have been on this forum long enough to know who is friend with who. On some occasions, I have personnaly attacked a forumer just to see one of his friend(sting, Nineveh) come to his rescue... Isn't this pathetic? I refer to this long and very emotionnal thread about "Greeks sucks" in the Veni Vidi Vici forum(2 months ago)... Do you remember guys? It was so long, an AoE heaven Angel came to close it, and you guys were kinda *******of at me! Whatever... I do not see why Nineveh is being affected by my post on this thread... he's Sting's friend!... sorry!

Nineveh, we've chat together and played together. You know that I'm a nice player. You even beated me in that RoR game. So, what's you problem? Moreover, you say I'm an asshole. Well, lets resolve that conflict once and for all. I'm an ass hole cuz I'm god damn right and brutally honest(about me, you and everybody)!!! You cannot deny that!

Many forumers here like to play the virgin Mary and be so politicaly correct it is kinda annoying... all these polite and boring answers... Come on, let be emotionnal! Lets put some life here!

Nineveh, do you have something constructive to say about my 2 last posts? Do you think my 126 rated games give me some credit to give my opinion and dump on a whiner who only played 9 rated games and then brag, tell he can beat anybody here in 20 minutes, tell rated rooms are not good (9 games hen?)?? If you have something constructive to say, do like me, tell people they are idiots at the same time, it has a so powerfull effect when your right about something...

Phil_The_Ass_hole



Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-22-98 11:41 PM ET (US)     36 / 48       
Emowilli
According to the rating formula and probability, such a game between me and you would be a 70%/30% in my favor (150 rating difference). We should play more than 1 game to verify the accuracy of ratings, lets say at least 10 games to come up with a good statistic(I do not feel like re-writting the whole table again... too long). Of course, you should have played at least 30 rated games so your rating is stabilised and really reflect your strenght. Is it the case??

Phil



Ender
Guest
posted 12-23-98 06:50 AM ET (US)     37 / 48       
My money is on Emowilli, since he taught me a lot of what I know about AOE by beating the snot out of me repeatedly way back when.

Just a comment, I find that almost every game I play in the ranked rooms people say gla, and usually they say good game afterwards, I almost never have a problem with lamers even when I smurf. The only lamers I usually do find are the kind that refuse to resign, and to fix that I always ask for standard instead of conquest. If you look at someones rating you can usually tell if they are a lamer, avoid playing people with 0 games, avoid playing people ranked under 1600 unless you don't mind the posibility of it being a newbie, and avoid people with a lot of abandons and you should be fine. Plus if you play someone lame put them on ignore and don't enter a game with them again. When you play someone you like add them to your friends list and look for games with them, odds are you'll find more people you like who are on thier friends list next time you play them.


[This message has been edited by Ender (edited 12-23-98).]

Emowilli
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 08:41 AM ET (US)     38 / 48       
Heh I said I would play a game with you Phil, not 10! haha. And no I think I only have about 8 or 9 rated games. (I really really really hate the zone ratings).

My thinking on the ratings is that its really not possible to have a high rating if you just join random games. I have something like 3 or 4 losses and 2 disconnects. Except for 1 the losses are because my teamates dropped and I had to play a 2vs3 or 1vs3! Whats up with that?? Seems like that game shouldn't count. In addition, I won a game and got it put down as incomplete. I also dropped one game at the ready'ing screen cause the host changed the settings and I got an incomplete for it.

In honesty though, even if the ratings system worked perfectly I still would hate it. AOE was much more fun before they came up with it. If you spend a little time when setting up the non rated games asking the players their skill you can often get a very good game going. It's just much more friendly then depending on some number that may or may not reflect someones skill.


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 09:08 AM ET (US)     39 / 48       
I agree with Ender on the point that it is quite common to be said "gg" in RR. Not all players do it, but I would say a nice proportion (~35%?).

I would love to play with you Emowilli but I am not going to be on the internet very much for the holydays. I am going back to Canada to see my mother and I might show up 2-3 times on my brother's computer. I'll see ya all on January 4th. Ok Nineveh, I'll give you 10 days of peace to allow you to get over yourself and I'll start to annoy you again next year!

see ya!
Phil_who_is_sometimes_an_ass_hole_just_to_liven_up_the_furum



Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 12-23-98 09:43 AM ET (US)     40 / 48       
Now I'm not a newbie (Unless you compare me to an expert or not even a true expert cus ive got alot of room to grow ) But I seldom get a good game in the qurinal so im gonna move to the rated soon.I have a flat 1600 and its gonna go down cus I'm gonna be playing some expert opponens. There will be the unlucky player too who gets a newbie partner or the mile away from berries or the 1 tile away from you enemy and 10000000 tiles away from your allies. You don't have to be a newbie to get your ratings hurt. But if you are afraid of the newbie partner get friends whom you know to be good and with just one friend u are promised that u have atleast 1 good partner. I would never turn away a low rating because the reasons you get lower for reasons other than skill outnumber the ways u gain points so this poor chap could be a good player,but has 8 black cats purring on his lap the last few games. You may already have covered sum of this stuff but all i did was skim through the posts .

NOW! THE MOMENT WE'VE ALLLLLLLL BEEN WAITING FOR! THEEEEEEEEEEEE SIGNATURE!


"ALL ROADS LEAD TO CAESAR III HEAVEN!"


Nineveh
Inactive
posted 12-23-98 12:36 PM ET (US)     41 / 48       
Phil,

There's a difference between putting a newbie in his place after he says repeated stupid things and hoisting your grand self up over some guy who mistakenly thinks he's the best.

You think he's wrong, tell him. You could check his rating and then mention that discrepancy.

If you want to be an big flaming asshole, be my guest. Geez, how old are you? I coulda sworn it was common courtesy to not go ballistic on people you just met when they say one thing that pushes your buttons.

I can see how you feel. If you want to be like that, fine, but put me on the list of people who think you're pretty damn stupid.

BTW, 126 rated games mean plenty. They mean you've played 126 rated games. Seeing how 30% of my rated games have ended in "ally up, he dropped", and 20% involve *****for partners, I don't really care.

AoE is more complex than chess, and the ratings do not apply. The only way you could have a believable rating would be 1v1 games with no cheaters, fair maps, no disconnections AND correct scoring (how many of my wins have been incomplete? Too many).

You are a clan member. You often go into rooms, I assume, with clan partners, all reliable, and kick the *****out of a ragtag band of whoever would be dumb enough to play a clan.

I have a *****connection. I drop too much. Why should I waste my time, lowering my rating, dissapointing my partners, for a less enjoyable game? I cared about ratings in AOE... until I went on an 11-game losing streak (dropped from 1706 to 1562). Well, it wasn't REALLY an 11 game loss streak. 5 disconnects, 1 nuke, 1 misreported game (I won, got a loss, WTF?) and 5 losses. I was outplayed 3 of the losses--the others involved dropping partners and people who dont ally up (which I support).

Since then I have quit rated rooms. I have no plans to play RoR in any rated rooms.

Merry Christmas Phil, maybe someone will get you a gift that can remove that broom from your ass.


J/K, but I liked that line.


-Nineveh, "Minister for Compy Equality"
ICQ 16407576

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 01-13-99 08:36 PM ET (US)     42 / 48       
I thought I could bring back this thread so everybody invloved in the "A question of ethic" thread see why I am actually very *******at Nineveh. I invite you very much to read it all.

The least we can say is, according to Nineveh, I'm a
1) "***** on Nineveh's guide to people"
2) "big flaming ass hole"
3) "pretty damn stupid"
4) "got a broom in my ass"

I've never been that blunt with anybody...

Phil

[This message has been edited by Phil_The_Great (edited 01-13-99).]

PrinceBolkonsky
Inactive
posted 01-14-99 00:15 AM ET (US)     43 / 48       
Hi all. After the previous couple of posts I think it necessary to implement the following command line for this message:

Hi. Just thought I would share my experiences of finding good (no, great) games in Quirinal (a nonrated room on the Zone).

I typically find games there advertised as 3v3 Expert or 4v4 Expert. In these games we typically play Random civs, and everyone that plays is at least good (meaning they know how to pull off a tool rush and could probably whip Phil's butt). How do we know each other is good? Because everyone in the game vouches for the quality of the other players, meaning, we all sort of know each other. This has led to several great things:

1 -- 4v4 games! whohoo! (Two ppl IP in)
2 -- Random Civs (no one wants to do this in Rated Rooms)
3 -- Long, 2+ hour games that can be hashed out afterwards
4 -- Consistent, rewarding competition and the making of friends
5 -- Actual sportsmanship!

Try it, you'll like it.

-- Prince Bolkonsky

ps: I do play rated games in the Matty Room. If you ever get ROR come and get some, Phil!

pps: I think Phil is probably about 12 years old. Or, at least, that is how old his writing and asinine attitudes makes him seem to be.


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 01-14-99 02:03 AM ET (US)     44 / 48       
BTW Prince, who are you? I never met you before... I see you're a junior member, 10-18-98... hmmm... you must know a lot about AoEH I guess... There's an history behind all this verbal fight, maybe you should read this thread completly, you would get a slight overview of the problem... Nineveh's last post on this thread has been posted just before christmas and I decided not to answer to keep the spirit of the forum at a good level... I even told him that I would not reply to this even though I could have, that we should keep our discutions below the the rage level. This little bastard then come tell phantom-wallers are lamers in the 16th post of the "ethic" thread, while I already posted in the 13th that I would use the phantom walling... I call this provocation... adding on top what he told me in this thread... Let me tell you something, I am not a perfect forumer, but I never told before this week to another forumer he was:


1) "a ***** on Nineveh's guide to people"
2) "big flaming ass hole"
3) "pretty damn stupid"
4) "got a broom in his ass"
5) an hypocrite

Now, please, make a good judgement call next time you tell something on this matter... please...

Phil



FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 01-14-99 10:31 PM ET (US)     45 / 48       
What is the DEAL here?

Just let it be!!!! Who cares if you play Rated or not? Let the people do what is fun and don't get mad at them because they like rated rooms and you don't. That's wrong.

And leave Phil alone !! He is a great guy, and i have had some fun games with him, and we chat a lot.

I play in both, sometimes more in Quirinal sometimes more in rated, recently i started playing more in rated because Quirinal is always full and i dont like to go to rookie rooms anymore ( i dont know why though ).

Reasons why i like Rated rooms:

If you get a game going without lamers, it is usually a fun game and a very competetive game.

It feel good to win a game and watch your rating change

You seldom get rookies on your team if you ever dare to go out to play a team game by yourself.

Now a moment to brag about my skills :

I here by challenge ANYONE to a friendly, and i mean FRIENDLY!, game. I am inspired by last nights game, where me and my random partner ( DataMatrix ) defeated IBG and some other guy who's name started with Q and had a rating of 1800... Shout outs to DataMatrix for saving the day! ( i didn't even think we had a chance )

ICQ = 17605204

Emowilli, play a 1vs1 with me? I need some practice, and the best way to learn is to fight experts.


Emowilli
Clubman
posted 01-14-99 11:28 PM ET (US)     46 / 48       
Sure I'll play you. Sorry when you msgd me earlier. I was distracted. That said I hardly ever play 1 on 1's so maybe its me who needs to learn :-).


Ender
Guest
posted 01-15-99 09:21 AM ET (US)     47 / 48       
Datamatrix uses Egypt better than anyone I've seen I think. I've never had to play him in ROR, but he has been my smurf ID partner a few times and he kicked butt.


Rikk
Inactive
posted 01-19-99 03:14 AM ET (US)     48 / 48       
I won't play on the Zone, and I definately won't play with people outside of my friends and co-workers. We hardly ever even play against each other anymore. Usually we'll have two or three people, we'll team up against 4 or 5 CPU players on hard, and that will keep us entertained for an hour or two. We don't rush, we don't do offensive towering, we don't build 900 villagers. About the only cheater move we do is when we start tributing all our stuff to each other at the end to get higher scores.

-Rikk


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