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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Experts, you should teach!
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Topic Subject:Experts, you should teach!
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Fanny
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 05:35 AM ET (US)         
Hi, I have been playing on the Zone for few weeks, I am trying to learn, I love this game, I have tried to Zone message experts asking for good tips, usually i get answers like "moron" "*****" "asshole" or something like that. This is a game, right? My zone name is Asima.
AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 05:38 PM ET (US)     26 / 39       
Blackheart:
1. No, actually that was normal among the opponents I was facing back then. They sent a first wave of 4-5 CAs, then within a minute arrived with another of 20 or so, then up to 40-50. They weren't spending on all those warboats, though.
 
2. I played hundreds, perhaps thousands of games on the zone. Most spots have some kind of hunting food nearby, and it doesn't take much to jump-start a persian boom. If they aren't close enough to the nearest forest, eles can be dragged and gazelles herded. Think about it: what's the chance of having neither elephants, nor gazelles nearby? Even a few lions or gators can become lunch, when you're hunting with 3-4 villies, which I always do to kill gazelles in one volley, or 5-6 to kill elephants without casualties. Then you can still put some back on nearby wood, after it's dead.
 
4. Shield upgrades affect barracks and academy units, but don't affect cavalry or archery units. They also don't affect villies. I hope I just saved you some gold.
 
5. Finally, what do you think of using early trade boats to get extra gold? It doesn't take up extra TC time, which is what the dock boom was about in the first place. If you have plentiful food (which you should if fishing like mad) you could trade food for gold, and possibly even move a few of what are currently your goldies over to wood duty, to help in the sea war!
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 06:03 PM ET (US)     27 / 39       
forget it..... no matter how much sense i try talking into you , you still try proving me wrong.... or whatever it is that you're doing...... you seem to think that you know better than everyone..... but i thought we proved otherwise the other night.....
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 07:15 PM ET (US)     28 / 39       
Blackheart:
I'm not trying to prove you wrong, and I don't know more than everyone else. I think you know some things I don't, and I know some things you don't, and that if we share our knowledge we'll both know more. I'm just trying to contribute.
 
I believe every strat has a counter, and if the boom w/toolwar you're using is what's standard, we should find it's counter. If we do, we'd kick boat for at least a few weeks before people catch on. The best counter is usually a civ that everyone ignores, the runt of the litter. In the assy rush days, they used to say something like "sure minoan compies are great for killing CAs, but they're a SLOW CIV, you'd still be in tool when my assy CAs come into your town". Yet with the fastboom I was bronzing 2 minutes ahead of the standard assy CA rush strat. LOL.
 
All we have to do is find that little detail everyone's ignoring, and we can whack them with it. I'm thinking us forumers can be the first to find it, seeing as we all have brains and like to debate.
Sumerian Leper
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 07:42 PM ET (US)     29 / 39       
Sorry to interupt boyz...

Sun_Cam:

Thanks for the take. I listened.

Wild1234
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 10:06 PM ET (US)     30 / 39       
40-50 CA???

now thats a bad rush, from what I have seen if you do a good rush they will die with the first 10 or so...

If that dont kill them its no longer a rush, just a battle. In this case 20-25 or so villys vs 40-50 villys/boats gives the boomer an advantage.
I lost many a game right before I switched to booming by not winning within the first 5-10 attack units. A boom is much safer in my mind, and dont forget that you can have quite a bit of wood saved, and enough food to rebuild...

just my 2 cents...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-05-00 10:28 PM ET (US)     31 / 39       
Wild1234:
Every strat has a counter. For a rusher to beat a boomer, he has to reduce the boomer's economy to a level below his own. If the boomer is too slow, and the rusher skilled, it shouldn't be very hard.
 
I agree a 20 villie + 20 boats economy beats a 20 villie economy, but only if they are of equal technology. Being an age up can make a huge difference.
Wild1234
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 01:28 AM ET (US)     32 / 39       
True, what I was saying is that from my experiance in this situation if the rusher fails to inflect a lot of damage in the first wave the boomer should reach the bronze age and be able to fight it off.

I would have to say that with equal skill the boomer should allways win unless you hit them totally by surprise. Since to reduce the boomers econ to a level where you can win you must win bolth the land and sea battle, unless you win bolth the boomer will have its stockpilled recs as well as 20-25 vills or boats left alive. eaither way the stockpile should let him fight you off, then if boats are left they can quickly replace villys, if villys are left they have wood choppers and get boats back up quick...

that is just what I have seen to happen, and I am in no mood to start an argument about it

guess this is only like my .2 cents

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 02:56 AM ET (US)     33 / 39       
Wild1234:
I'd say the rusher has to reduce the boomer's econ down to size, which indeed would require an amphibious attack, before the boomer can build an army of the same age. It can be in multiple waves, so long as the result happens before the boomer catches up.
 
Yeah, I know all about using villies to replace boats and vice versa. I miss doing the minoan fastboom, bronzing in 12 mins with a 40 villie/boat econ really rocked while everyone else was using the 20-villie assy bronze.
 
I'm convinced something can beat the boat boom, probably something people never did much before. Something exotic, new and interesting. That's why I was trying persian, I'm thinking they could be the best counter to hittite in RM, but I'm definitely open to suggestions. Blackheart, if you want me to shut up about persia give me something better to ponder. What might beat hittite, in several occasions on huge medit?
Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 09:57 AM ET (US)     34 / 39       
GL and keep playing Asima AoE is a great game, it just takes lots of practice and time to get really good. Keep zming ignore the zone assholes there's LOTS of them.

I'm editing because I found you online, GG was fun to kick the computer with overwelming forces

It's your start that needs some practice.

I still suck at aoe but what got me much faster was practicing the first 15 mins off line, noreveal, 1.0 speed (for the first couple of mins) get your first house like you do but try to send off 2 villies scouting way before the house is done. Read Neils first RoR mins guide, yes I understand reading strats, knowing what to do and actually doing it ingame are different GL and have fun, nice to meet you.

~sai_so~
O Great Spirit
grant me a vision.
Let it be good.
Let it bless all people

[This message has been edited by Tenaciti (edited 05-06-2000).]

Wild1234
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 01:01 PM ET (US)     35 / 39       
what will beat a hittite on medit...

well, you can expect war gallies and cats, so you will have to hit their wood fast and hard...
If they are going for CA in the bronze age, I supose you could try the yammy calv rush, bring the rush back to life? I havent tried it, but calv can kill carriots so if you get their wood down fast you might have a chance...
but if they are also gathering gold they could counter with hoppers or camels it might be a bit different. I never saw aomeone acually make hoppers to counter a cal rush though, just more CA, hehe
I also like the idea that stone throwers cant kill calv like iron age cats can

Also dont forget that you will have a little help on the sea with the +30% HP boats...

I think that bringing the yammy calv rush back would have a chance if you hit them right and they are better prepaired to produce cats and CA than anything else, any other ideas???

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 02:08 PM ET (US)     36 / 39       
30-40 CA, LOL!

10 new within a minute! LOL!

Wedsaz, stop saying those BS. Man, what you're saying can't be done, sorry.

20 Woodies can make wood for 4-5 CA (in 4-5 archeries) max...not more. Remember, a CA=70 wood. So you should stop cheating man cuz there's no way in hell you're gonna have an eco to do 10 CA in 1 minute at min 16:00 (a slow brz time btw) cuz let's face it, it takes 45 secs to do a CA, so it's a bit hard Oh, and I've almost forgot:it takes 30 secs to make Camels and Camels beats the crap out of those CA HF...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 04:39 PM ET (US)     37 / 39       
SuN_Cam_Popov:
They used wood they had stocked up while you would make FB, duh.

What I'm saying is, if you don't spend on FB and the scout ships to defend them, and keep your resources for a war galley and cav/camel rush in bronze, you might wipe a lot of minoans and hittites off the sea.

Wild1234:
Good initiative, a yam cav/warboat rush might work vs hittite if you're fast. However, if he's not dead after your first attack, expect your next cavs to meet camels.

That's why I was looking up persian, with skill and an average (either 4 gazelles or 2 elephants and a forest within walking distance) spot, persian can bronze in 11. That would give them 4-5 mins before hittite hits bronze, long enough to hit them with everything from cavs/camels to compies+STs. Yes I know they don't get artisanship, but who cares? Hittite won't get it for another 4-5 mins either!

Minoan is a tougher problem, since they can bronze in 12 if played right. That means they can meet a yam cav rush with camels, and a persian rush with larger number of troops due to a stronger boom. Yam is better than persian on the seas, but I don't think 30% more hps would win vs 40% more boats. Persian can fare better in iron vs minoan, as HonoredMule can testify, but their early navy shouldn't beat a good minoan.

I'm still looking for more suggestions, especially vs minoan.

[This message has been edited by wedsaz (edited 05-06-2000).]

SuN_Cam_Popov
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 05:31 PM ET (US)     38 / 39       
Ok, then how are ya donig food?

You need FB for food...or real villies on berries-hunting-farms...DUH! In the 2 ways, you won't have much wood

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-06-00 05:44 PM ET (US)     39 / 39       
SuN_Cam_Popov:
Simple: all you have to do is be nomadic. Move from food source to food source.
 
You can get to bronze on 2 berry patches. If you're not picky and also take all the hunting food (or, if persian, go for that first) the enemy can be dead long before you have to farm.
 
Do you know what the biggest benefit of the boom was, when it started 6 months after AoE came out? Everyone ignored the sea, so half your economy was safe. That's no longer the case, as you may have noticed.
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