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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » by the way.... any non-expert players....
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Topic Subject:by the way.... any non-expert players....
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Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-18-00 09:16 PM ET (US)         
if any of you want.... catch me on the zone as _dream_of_w33d_ .... lets do a coop game, and i can show you how to boat boom ..... this is how i learned to boom, by watching someone else.... so if anyone wants to speed up their ror learning process, since ror is kinda dying .... just msg me, i would be glad to help out

although if you are looking for something further, like how to play hills.... well.... everyone manages resources differently, so i cant really help you....

but if you need help booming ..... just zm me

AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-18-00 11:02 PM ET (US)     1 / 37       
Good idea, I wish I could help! *sigh*
 
Blackheart is right, watching others is a very good way of learning.
 
Also making a plan before every game, and analyzing after every game can help even the best players improve.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 00:16 AM ET (US)     2 / 37       
I will gladly offer my services to helping anyone wanting to learn to play better - especially on Mediteranian maps. I consider myself a really good intermediate on Mediteranian maps (I beat all rookies, most intermediate players, and some experts). I can play and teach well Yamato, Hittite, Minoan, Phoenican, and Shang strategies (yes wedsaz I actually play my top Civs regularly). Zone Message me any night -BlitzkreigComin or _No_Name_Bandit.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 01:03 AM ET (US)     3 / 37       
Yamato and hittite? Cool, I might want some help with those.
 
Can you also do assy? That's the only civ I never won with, which is strange considering how popular they once were. I must be doing something wrong. Oh, and scouting too: I can't find my forests on noreveal except on medit. What? Nobody's perfect.
 
When I can play online again, I'll be glad to offer my services teaching the minoan fastboom and, for intermediates up, how to bronze decently fast with palmy.
 
I won't be teaching the art of fast bronzing with persian yet, I wasn't done researching that. (Yes! I admit it! But the results were promising.)
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 01:48 AM ET (US)     4 / 37       
wedsaz

I don't know how to play Assy well. I have played them and won on Hills map, but it was in Rookie rooms. You are right, they used to be popular-but not anymore. Almost like Yamato, and that is why I like them. Most Zone players today have never experienced a good old fashioned Yamato Calvary Rush, Shang Scout Rush, or Assyrian CA Rush. Popular game settings, map sizes and population limits favor the Iron wars of Scythe and Heavy Cats.

I know you know how to scout for trees around your camp, but maybe rooks don't. Since I'm tired of blabbing tonight (somebody gets tired of blabbing?-just kidding wedsaz) I would recommend downloading and reading "Crapping Bronzing Revisited" among other articles if still found on this site. Some might pertain more to AoE than RoR, but they still explain the basics of starting a game with default resources and no reveal map.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 02:18 AM ET (US)     5 / 37       
BlitzkerigComin:
Population limits you say? Hmm, maybe we could start a pop50 clan and play anyone on any RM default map... so long as pop=50!
 
I wasn't kidding about the scouting. You may *think* I know how to scout for forests around my camp, but I don't. Or at least, I still don't find any after 10 minutes of searching with all my villies in all directions. Yes, I've already read the strats, but it doesn't help. I'll have to coop with someone sometime and see exactly how they do it.
 
Between that and handling of fast units (I somehow can lose with 20 assy CAs vs 10, not sure how I do it), I can cover my worst weaknesses. Oh, and I have bad timing of when to attack, I need major help there too.
 
Nobody's perfect, but few enjoy talking about their weaknesses. I have big strenghts, and big weaknesses. So does every expert, probably.
The Composite
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 12:35 PM ET (US)     6 / 37       
I need to learn how to use Palmrayn.:P
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 03:13 PM ET (US)     7 / 37       
The_Composite:
Here's a little something to get you started with palmy:
1. You *must* find a food source ASAP! Don't be picky, take berries, shorefish, gazelles, elephants... Put 6 villies if it's berries or hunting, you can put less on shorefish. (obviously)
2. I usually stop at 12 villies. Some will say that's not much, but they work like 18 and if I make more my berry patch doesn't get me to tool. You may want to experiment with switching to a 2nd food source and making 16 or so villies, it may make a faster bronze time.
3. When my berries are done, I switch my food villies to wood and make 2 docks to dock boom.
4. Continue making boats while tooling. Also build a barracks now.
5. By tool, (around 7 mins is what I get) you should have more than enough food to make 4 villies without waiting. Research walls, and build some. Make an archery, THEN a market. Why so defensive? Because many opponents will try to tool rush palmy, so you should be ready.
6. While bronzing, research woodworking and then gold minin. Also research whatever military upgrades apply to the units you want to use. Camels and cavs are good to have in early bronze, so I recommend toolworking and leather for cav. Afterwards get archer armor, because you'll probably switch to some kind of archer.
7. You're in bronze, your economy is stable, but you should probably make many TCs and expand. You can rush with cavs, camels, CAs or compies, but don't look to me for advice there...
 
If you're playing tribber, don't build the archery or stable until your ally's attack is won. Instead keep giving him any resources you don't need to make a villager or a few boats right away, and only when he's done should you bronze. When he is though, hurry up because otherwise you may not have writing before it's over...
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 07:52 PM ET (US)     8 / 37       
wedsaz i totally disagree with what you said at the beginning ... ie. "put vills on anything, berries, gazelle" ....

if you hunt at the beginning, 2 problems will arise

1) hunting isnt fast enough at start to keep vill flow fast enough .... like by the time the vills bring in their 1st 10 food, it will be way late..... and no dont try proving me wrong, cuz i know that killing wildlife and then doing all the grouping, takes a considerable amount of time.... berries = 1 guy building granary while the others get an early start at gathering....

2) meat gets eaten super fast, especially with palmy, you will run into food shortage problems ..... super quick....

.... by the way palmy needs only 5 on berries for consistent vill flow (assuming one isnt a retard and puts his gatherers on the furthest berries away from the granary)

berries... and sf (assuming you find enough) is good at start.... but hunting = big no no , unless hunting is your only option, well, u r simply screwed.....

[This message has been edited by Blackheart (edited 04-19-2000).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 09:34 PM ET (US)     9 / 37       
Blackheart:
I'll surprise you: I agree, hunting is a last resort with any civ but persian.
 
However, palmy must get some food in fast, and if there's a gazelle or something nearby and you still didn't find your berries, take the gazelle to make villie 6 and maybe 7... but keep scouting for those berries.
 
Yes, I know palmy only needs 5... same as most civs. However, I usually put 6 because of the 49f bug so I don't have to watch them. You're right though, 5 is enough, and the 6th could be used for scouting and possibly forward building. Palmy tool rush anyone? How many wouldn't expect it?
Hyper
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 09:47 PM ET (US)     10 / 37       
How often would it work? Maybe like... 1 out of 15 or worse? Palmy can't tool rush, i'm sorry but they can't. Shang assy yam and rome do it faster and/or better and palmy just doesn't have the econ or military bonus to pull it off
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 10:14 PM ET (US)     11 / 37       
palmy cant tool rush.... they barely survive as it is..... on land maps they are pretty much always screwed.... heck.... id rather have greek...

palmy is only decent on maps they can boom..... and even if they boom, their 1st vills out of the tc are delayed, so pulling off a 15 min bronze is hard enough with palmy, they dont have time to rush.... palmy needs more fast micromanagement than other boom civs..... also palmy .... needs to watch their ass more than other civs.... those vills are expensive, and there is less than other civs, so they need to prepare the base in case of a tool attack, when palmy, the threat of being tooled is much more dangerous...... also i find that booming with palmy doesnt leave me with much resources when i hit bronze, i dont know why, just palmy booms dont seem to bring in much food for your bronze attack.... so palmy also doesnt have enough res for tool rushing, while trying to bronze and get the economy and armor upgrades in tool....

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 10:55 PM ET (US)     12 / 37       
Palmy has the econ to pull it off. Palmy needs 5 villies on berries for constant villager flow, same as everyone else except shang. The next villies you produce will chop more wood or mine more gold for the same training time. You can even put them on food as well to outproduce any civ, as they are the only civ with a berry-picking bonus.
 
Yes, I know their villies cost 50% more, but villies are worth their cost. Unless you think we should all stop wasting resources on villies and spend it on clubbers instead? Highly unlikely.
 
As for palmy's military, they don't cost more than anyone else's.
 
The reason palmy is usually slow and crappy is morale. Good players heard so much FUD about them, they don't dare touch them and automatically assume they're useless. Newbies just plain suck with any civ. Experts sometimes try them, but only once or twice with the goal of proving they're useless.
 
The key to using palmy right: don't make as many villies. That's right, LESS villies! They work 40% faster, so 5 of palmy's is like 7 of another's. If you train 22 villies, your opponent must train 32 to have an equal economy. Yes, I know that's 50f more but it's not such a big price to pay for 5 minutes of extra TC time, which can mean 5 minutes faster to an age or a faster economic growth.
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-19-00 11:33 PM ET (US)     13 / 37       
i thought palmy worked 25 % faster... where r u getting 40 % from?

also if you plan on making 22 vills (not including boats) ..... then prepare to have an amazing bronze time of.... lets say..... 18? hahaha

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-20-00 01:14 AM ET (US)     14 / 37       
0.45/sec + 0.20/sec, do the math.
 
I didn't say it was a good idea, that was a numeric comparison. Even so, I'll have you notice most people nowadays make an insane number of villies before tooling. Let's say 15 palmy villies then, and the other guy has to make 21, that's still a whopping 3 minutes difference.
 
I usually bronze in 14 minutes with palmy, after a 7:00 tool to be ready to repel tool rushes. Palmy is far from slow.
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-20-00 11:57 AM ET (US)     15 / 37       
"I usually bronze in 14 minutes with palmy, after a 7:00 tool to be ready to repel tool rushes."

well.... no.... you dont.....

you dont play ror .... you havent played for... half a year was it?, so shut up ....... i try to be friendly, but you keep doing it again.... giving examples of what you "usually" achieve ..... but again you dont play ror ... so your posts dont mean jack.....

ooh yeah i could quit playing ror now, and be on this board saying to people, well, i do consistent 10 minute bronzes with greek, with resources for a cav rush right after i am bronzed......... how? i wont tell you. play a game and show you? my ror computer is busted. ooh this other computer? it doesnt have a video card you see, i cant display graphics, so no ror... how am i typing this? well... i can see "beyond" svga *x-files music playing*..... besides i dont have 30 minutes to play a game of ror..... and strangely, i have enough time no come here and answer every thread that is being posted on ....

anyway see where i'm getting at?

[This message has been edited by Blackheart (edited 04-20-2000).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-20-00 10:28 PM ET (US)     16 / 37       
Blackheart:
Yes I did. I played AoE trial then AoE then RoR on the zone most evenings for over 2 years.
 
Telling me to shut up everytime I say something is hardly friendly. No wonder people are deserting the AoE forums and leaving for AoK.
 
You argue with my vague statements, so I give more detailed examples, and still you complain. Does everyone have to kiss your feet and accept your decisions without question?
 
I will gladly explain each and every one of my examples. I usually don't make a 5-page report about every statement, but if you ask me to explain something further I will. If something I say is hard to believe, maybe there's something I forgot to mention. Ask for more details.
 
Oh, I have plenty of time to play RoR online. I just have a hard time finding opponents who don't mind pausing for a few hours after 3 minutes, without advance warning.
 
What you seem to be trying to do is chase me off these forums so you can continue with your "yamato is the only viable civ".
 
Oh, and I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I came here to debate RoR while I can't play, not to get my head chewed off every time I say something. So, I am angry, and sad that the RoR crowd degenerated so much. AoK isn't killing RoR, our own infighting is.
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-20-00 10:45 PM ET (US)     17 / 37       
trust me there is many experts in esq that would be willing to take u on.... u just constantly make excuses why you cant play, and yet u make up these crazy stories how u got 500 eles + 700 ha after ironing in 16.... why are u debating a topic you dont participate in? play the damn game you lamer!
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 01:09 AM ET (US)     18 / 37       
30 eles and 20 scythes isn't exactly the same as 500 eles and 700 has. Also, since phoenies aren't what they used to be we can stop discussing what I did or didn't do with them.
 
I'm debating them because I love the game, played a lot, and can't play right now.
 
I want to play, but I can't! At least, not yet. Next time I can play, I'll look you up on the zone.
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 09:57 PM ET (US)     19 / 37       
Blackheart, why do you seem to be on a mission to prove everything wedsaz says wrong? Could it be caus' deep down you know he's better then you and your trying to make him sound crazy so people dont find out? Im not trying to start something here(even thought i probably did). You should just stop trying to prove him wrong and try playing more so you can get good enough to see he isnt crazy and so we can have some peace!!! i know he isnt crazy caus' my friend in florida is a very consistent 11 min bronzer. its not impossible to do it consistently. im not saying everything wedsaz says is perfect truth, im just saying its not the crap you say it is.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 10:22 PM ET (US)     20 / 37       
Thank you, Combat_Villager.
 
You're quite right, I'll admit most of the strats I come up with don't work. However, I just get back up and make some more. Even 1 new strat is enough to change the zone.
 
Blackheart: Don't dismiss ideas just because they come from me. Try them, and if they don't work tell me why. Maybe I'll come up with a solution, or a whole new and improved strat. Or maybe someone else on this forum will find the missing piece. I don't care who does, I'm only out to change the way people play.
 
Be well, and have fun, all of you.
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-21-00 11:13 PM ET (US)     21 / 37       
combat vill : i have been playing aoe/ror for 3 years..... in this time i have never seen any outrageous 30 eles after ironing or 50 towers in 24 mins crap....

yes i am trying to prove wedsaz wrong.... because he IS wrong ..... unlike him i play the game everyday (or at least try to) , while he makes weird excuses why he cant play.... like... "my ROR computer is busted... but this comp im on.... doesnt have windows" .... or ... "im on a big project and dont have an hor for a game of ror" .... BULLSHIT! ..... and all his strats and stuff is based on calculations..... 3 mino boats for 2 yam boats..... what is this based on? in every ror game, maps are different, enemies have different playing styles...... ror isnt based on calculations..... if it was, i would resign without playing a game out ... because hey... im yam but wedsaz is mino... so he will surely kill my boats with his 3:2 ratio..... and if i try scout rushing him , he will have already walled the entire map in... that is the biggest load of crap ever....

so im just trying to prove wedsaz wrong, because he doesnt play ror, and even more he makes himself sound like some super know it all expert , since he always claims to have done all these amazing things ... again.... 50 towers in 24 mins..... maybe i havent done these things because in all these years i have been playing people of equal or greater skill, not playing vs rookies like wedsaz ...... he is just spewing bs .... and i correct his statements (for those new to ror , who dont know any better than to listen to wedsaz)

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 00:25 AM ET (US)     22 / 37       
What makes you think his reasons for not playing are fake? His comp probably crashed and you CANT PLAY AOE ON LINUX!
CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 00:26 AM ET (US)     23 / 37       
one other thing, you called him a "know it all" but yet you seem to know more then he does...
Blackheart
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 01:13 AM ET (US)     24 / 37       
for ****'s sake.... thats cuz i play the ****ing game unlike wedsaz.... whatever i say on this forum is based on real games i played recently, vs good opponents.... not long time ago vs rookies and all based on calculations.....

i may not know it all but i know more than wedsaz does thats for sure..... while he has learned how much hp each individual unit in ror has and how much it costs, i have learned how to play the game and play well.... and that game outcomes are not based on what costs cheaper .... but its how you use units that wins the game...


by the way.... if his windows comp crashed, and wedsaz claims he doesnt do warez..... he must have a win95/98 cd lying around.... and i dont see why he cant do a double boot on his linux machine..... wedsaz makes too many excuses why he cant play, and yet he gloats how he did all this crazy shit a long time ago...... please...... wedsaz = rook that memorized ror manual.....

[This message has been edited by Blackheart (edited 04-22-2000).]

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 04-22-00 01:23 AM ET (US)     25 / 37       
Blackheart:
So you deny that having stronger or cheaper units can make the difference against a player of equal skill?
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