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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Misconceptions about the Greeks
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Topic Subject:Misconceptions about the Greeks
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Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 08-18-99 09:45 AM ET (US)         
I've read that many people say that Greece is the slowest civ. I really don't think so. They have the same economic bonuses, and sometimes more, than many other civs. Although
they have no inherent(sp?) economic bonuses such as Phoenie woodcutting, Shang villagers, or Persian hunting, neither do many other civs. I don't see why Greece is any slower than Carthage, or Hittite or Macedonia or many others. I bet if people tried, or cared, they could play Greece as fast as the others. Besides, fast academy is kind of cool (especially with aristocracy) and faster warships are great against fire galleys. Besides, we all love dual siege Another complaint is their weak bronze.
Take a look at Rome's bronze and I have seen some of the best players on the Zone tear up the field with them.

Although not my top choice, I don't moan when I get Greek in random. I enjoy working with the big guns.

-Local_Yokel

AuthorReplies:
Odyssey2
Clubman
posted 08-20-99 07:47 PM ET (US)     26 / 42       
They do have good bonuses, but civs like egypt can really maul them. Chariots are much cheaper than cavs, and egy chariots with nobility and +4 armr +4 ap will really mess with greece's cavs. Hopper and slinger combo? CA work very well. Hopper/St/Slinger/priest/cav/ (basically everything greece has in bronze) combo? Egy priests, chariots, chariot archers, etc. Priests convert st, CA go for hoppers, Chariots go for slingers. They can be used well, but if you cut off their gold, poof! There goes the mighty Greek player! And Babylon can be useful during bronze.. at least they have chariotts and camels. The babylonians do not miss any unit until iron, but they do get scythes! Scythes and souped up priests! Babylon could probly take greece on the land, while greece would probably take babylon on the sea. But all the babylonian player has to do is wall off as much gold as he can in tool. Then the greek player will have to break through the thick walls in order to get any units above the tool age. And if the Babylonian player has extra stone, and puts a tower behind those walls, many slingers will die...

[This message has been edited by Odyssey2 (edited 08-20-99).]

BenAtLarge
Inactive
posted 08-20-99 08:46 PM ET (US)     27 / 42       
How is Baby the worst civ? Although they're not the best at anything, they're not the worst at anything either. Up until bronze, Baby's full tech tree should beat Greek into the abyss. And in Iron Baby can at least stalemate the Greek. Dual siege is great, but it gets beaten by an equal number of fully upgraded Baby cats. If you then decide to run fast academy or hcavs w/o metallurgy at the baby cats then they meet the fire of the mighty Babylonian ballista towers. Or they meet the fully upgraded priests, and the academy/stable turns back and beats up on Greece's own units! Plus, Baby gets scythes when the gold runs out as Odyssey says. I don't really see what's so much better about the Greek Iron compared to Baby Iron (on land)...both have HCats, but Greek has heles to stop infantry/stables units, while Baby has priests that can (even better) STEAL those units, backed by a bunch of 480 hp ballista towers. (or they can back them with HA...) So the Greek will probably die in bronze and if not dead by then, will probably run out of gold dying in Iron.

At sea Baby doesn't get triremes which sucks, but those towers really mess up any non-siege ships that decide to attack them. They also get Fire Galleys to kill the siege ships and HCats backing the towers which is pretty hard to beat with just ships.

I guess the bottom line is Greek's Iron is pretty darn good but they are so gold dependant that good players will probably run them out of gold before they can do much damage with that dual siege/acad combo.

EPS_Coleader
Clubman
posted 08-21-99 11:48 AM ET (US)     28 / 42       
Okay, I agree with Odyssey that Egypt will eat Greece alive, But I think Greece will still destroy babylon with thier siege, and besides, if your babylon and you opponent is siege, You wont think about attacking his gold mines first, youll think about walling in bacause once Greece gets through your defences, you are almost always dead.
EPS_Coleader
Clubman
posted 08-21-99 11:50 AM ET (US)     29 / 42       
Sorry bout the post earlier, I when I said that if your opponent is siege, I meant greece, hehe
armagedn
Clubman
posted 08-21-99 11:54 AM ET (US)     30 / 42       
Sebsoft:

Allow me to correct an overstatement (made simply for effect): faster Greek warships is ONE of the most useless bonuses in the game.

Coleander: Anytime you want to pit Greece against Babylon, look me up - armagedn1. (Default resources, no reveal, RM, 1.0 speed.) Might be enlightening.

Odyssey2
Clubman
posted 08-21-99 01:08 PM ET (US)     31 / 42       
Coleander, yes, dual siege is impressive, but greece has to get to the iron age before it is useful to him. And that is no easy task for greece. the babylonian player is not going to let the greek get to the iron age! Hes going to wall and tower like crazy! Towers by the greeks gold mines! walls by the greeks military buildings! Camels in the greeks town! Chariots and CA harrassing the greeks villagers! Priests converting the greek hoppers! And all the greek can do to fix it is make more cavalry and hoppers... Baby could take greece any day!


Of course most other civs will take down either baby or greece anyway!

[This message has been edited by Odyssey2 (edited 08-21-99).]

Bi0Logic
Inactive
posted 08-21-99 11:33 PM ET (US)     32 / 42       
I like greeks, I wish they would have a fast assault unit though. But like i say, you cant go wrong with Hittites!

------------------
BioLogic strikes again...

admstx7
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 03:45 AM ET (US)     33 / 42       
Greece isn't bad. Cav, hoppers, throwers, and (believe it or not) bowmen work pretty well. To make them compete with the big boys though, ES should have given the +30% war ship speed to the fb/fs too. then. they would have an ever-so-small econemy bonus, comparable to mace's line of sight. in fact, if they had that, i'd rank greek as one of my fave 5 civs, right between mace and hittite
greekish guy
Inactive
posted 08-24-99 12:56 PM ET (US)     34 / 42       
I`m outaged about your thoughts against the greeks. I only play the greeks! On thw water, with careful management, the greek can completely wipe out every other player. They have all the walls to get people out, all the towers, seige weapons, and naval. They have all but three technoligies without Rise of Rome(which are Jihad, Metallurgy, and Monthesism). Sure they`re weak in archery in calvalry, but I rely on my seige weapons and infantry if not my Juggeraughts. I`ll take on one of you, an amatuaer. But not ow, I have to keep my phone bill down. Tommorrow maybe. Bye for today.
Wicked_Spirit
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 01:05 PM ET (US)     35 / 42       
Is that you darth ryan???

Seriously, if you think that a greek can take any other civ you are crazy. You talk about your juggernaughts and your siege, well, you will never have the chance to build anything but stone throwers cuz anyone with any skill will pound you into submission during bronze. I have a weak spot for Greece too, along with Persia, but there is a reason people dont play them too often, and it happens to be that there is little you can do in bronze to stop someone from totally destroying you.

Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 08-24-99 06:34 PM ET (US)     36 / 42       
Greek chew up in Iron? No way. I can name a few better Irons than greek:
1. Hittite
2. Rome
3. Palmyran
(all realative to other civs in Iron...anybody who says Minoa will kick a quick firm knee)
etc.

Besides, most of my 1v1 games are decided in the first 9 minutes. God, I love Tool Rushing.

-Local_Yokel

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 08-25-99 04:10 AM ET (US)     37 / 42       
Well i like the greeks, they where the first civ i played with on my first game(of course i didnt live out of the stone age but that was 2 years ago ) the greeks are historically accurate, but es could've also added chariots and war ele's the greeks did use these and the chariots would help them with those pesky priests.
Bi0Logic
Inactive
posted 08-25-99 04:17 AM ET (US)     38 / 42       
Palmyrans are LOSERS, IMnot so-HO, they are down there with Babylon.

------------------
BioLogic strikes again...

As an afterthought, I also think that people who build nothing but seige and maybe a few CA's or HA's are also losers.

[This message has been edited by Bi0Logic (edited 08-25-99).]

That_Guy
Inactive
posted 08-25-99 04:20 AM ET (US)     39 / 42       
palmryans are pretty good ya just got to know how to use em
Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 08-25-99 12:15 PM ET (US)     40 / 42       
Palmyran are awsome! At first i hated them with the 75 food vills but after a little testing i founfd them to be
a mid tier civ, at least in my oppinion. I got inspired after on guy in a 3v3 played palmy, mad about 210 vills (in a 175 game) and feed his allies. The trick to palmy is to utilize fishing boats more early on and to wall up. From mid-bronze to the endgame, no civ can keep up with its economy (maybe phoe on a good day.)

-Local_Yokel

admstx7
Clubman
posted 08-30-99 10:03 AM ET (US)     41 / 42       
Palmyran is bad? Babylon is bad?
Looks like we got one of two things going on here:

1) bio just got beat, hard, by a palmyran and/or a babylonian

2) or he's just reading off of the tech trees and not testing civs out.

Bi0Logic
Inactive
posted 08-30-99 11:10 PM ET (US)     42 / 42       
Admxtsukx-whatever...I DO read off the tech trees, and it's the lack of critical techs which make Babylonian and Palmyran bad. For example, Palmyran gets a 20% bonus...But that doesnt do much since Palmyran have no agriculture or coinage. Id rather have a plain vill with coinage than a 20% bonus.

Admslikstiks, Ive got two things going on here...
1)Admxnut thinks Babylonian/Palmy can hang with Hittite or Shang.
2)He's an idiot.

However, I have lost to both a Babyonian AND a Palmyran player, but that was because my allies sat around and let them build ball towers all over their face while I killed Mr. Palmy's allies single-handedly by my Mighty Macenturions.

------------------
BioLogic strikes again...

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