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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » I Just tried 20Egy ca's vs 15bland ha's and the CA's WIN!!
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Topic Subject:I Just tried 20Egy ca's vs 15bland ha's and the CA's WIN!!
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hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-23-99 08:06 PM ET (US)         
First of all I havn't been smoking crack.

I have just gotten done testing 20Egyptian Ca's lined up in a half-moon, with 15 bland(greek) ha's lind up in the middle. They were both set to post-Iron age. The first time I tested, there were 11 ca's left, the second time there were 9, and the third time there were 12 left. I have not the slitest clue why, so don't ask me.

------------------
Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

AuthorReplies:
Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 08:17 PM ET (US)     51 / 66       
I made this massive edit to a previous post and I should have just posted it as a brand new one, so go ahead and read the new paragraphs to the old post.
Mark_Aurel
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 08:25 PM ET (US)     52 / 66       
For us three-dimensional beings, time "flows". However, since the universe is basically multi-dimensional, four-dimensional beings could exist in theory. To them, time would flow no more than a plain does to us - that is, you can basically walk in any direction, back and forth, as you wish. It is complex, but imaginable.

Concerning the Bible and "hidden messages", if enough time is spent interpreting anything, "hidden" meanings will appear. The Bible is undoubtedly the most examined and interpreted book in the history of mankind. It is also the book most disagreed upon. Anything can have hidden meanings if you examine it enough.

Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 09:20 PM ET (US)     53 / 66       
We sure went from Chariot archers to the meaning of existance real fast (well, about 52 posts)

-Local_Yokel
P.S. WHO IS A ROMAN FREAK? C'MON, LET'S SEE SOME HANDS!

Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 10:37 PM ET (US)     54 / 66       
How come examination of other books such as "War and Peace" do not turn up any kind of hidden messages, false or true like the bible. And they used things like skip one letter and go to the next, skip 2, words crossing each other to make sentences, sure, they used other ways but those same ways in other books just don't work.

And BTW (By the Way), I've heard that carbon dating is only accurate to date objects only a couple 100,000 years old, not even one million. So, some of your billion year old rocks might not be that old if what I heard was true.

joecho
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 10:52 PM ET (US)     55 / 66       
Mark,

My schooling as allowed me to partake in a couple of modern physics courses, along with biochemistry, statistical thermodynamics, and physical chemistry; so I have covered this subject in respect to science. You are quite right in that modern science does not rule out a divine being. As a matter of fact, many argue that it points to it. So, it took 4 billion years for evolution to get where we are today, huh. Mark, do the actual math, and see how long it would have really taken us for the evolutionary process to get where we are today, had there not been some form of omniscient intervention. How about the big bang? I'm believe you've been schooled in these matters as well. All of matter, space and time itself were compacted in a tiny little ball. Do you realize the magnitude of energy required to go from such a ball into the big bang? Spontaneous it was not. And as Desert points out, tell me where this infinitely dense mass of matter/space/time came from. "highly improbable" you say. That's quite an understatement and you know it. I recommend that you read "The Fingerprint of God", a discourse written by Hugh Ross, a Christian astrophysicist.

And since this is the AOE/ROR forum, I would like to point out that bible accounts some rather interesting battles, exemplifying strategies that are familiar to many of us. E.g., during the Joshua campaigns, the Israelites attacked a fortified city with a small decoy force. When the enemy left the city to pursue the decoy force, Joshua took a larger force into the town and sacked it. Sounds familiar?


“God does not play dice.” – Albert Einstein

-joecho

apocalypse77
Clubman
posted 07-27-99 11:15 PM ET (US)     56 / 66       
Does anyone else think that we are chasing our tails around in circles endlessly??? I must admit, this IS a real interesting thread, but it really isn't getting anyone anywhere. Ah well, human nature, I suppose.

I feel it nessecary to add my two cents.

Concerning Quantum Mechanics (I really only know basics on this):

Originally (don't have an exact date on this ) the universe was thought to operate on the theroy of Determinism. Determinism stated that if a certain expierment was duplicated, down to every exact thing, then the exact same results would occur. However, based on Chaos Theory, this couldn't be tested directly. However, it is what was widely believed.

Only one man stood for a Non-Deterministic stance, I can't recall his name, John somethingorother. I'll just call him John for simplicity. Well, the Determinits were taking on Religion left and right, and smashing them at every turn. Only three problems were left up to be shashed by Determinism. I cannot recall the third, but the first two were 1) That electricity seemed to jump across short distances, and 2) that when atoms split, they seemed to split entirely at random. Well, someone was researching the second problem, and stumbled onto the fact that atoms DID split entirely at random. This seemed unlikely to him, but he checked the chances for error, and they were heavily in favor of his conclusions. This opened up the whole field of NON-Determinism, which is Quantum Mechanics. Quantum Mechanics basically states that even if circumstances were exactly duplicated from several expierments to the next ones, that the results could easily be the same. Hence this left an easy opening for Relgion and such. Primarily the answering of prayers was spoken of in this category. Basically, science DOES allow for the existence of God.

However, I imagine that it allows for underwear to.

Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 07-28-99 10:41 AM ET (US)     57 / 66       
Its not the Spliting of that super energy atom that puzzles me, its the fact that there WAS a super energy atom. There are so many possibilities we will never get the exact reasons for how matter or being was first formed, and in my life I will never know how there was a First something. But somehow there is a first something and I think that the easiest way to explain things is that a God was there, and he made things in the way he wanted it and made it so it could support life. This solves everything unexplained.
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 07-28-99 12:02 PM ET (US)     58 / 66       
Ok, Mark, I will be posting a topic for you about Evolution. I'm not sure how long it will take, but in a matter of days I will have it posted.

------------------
Long Live Egypt, Death To The Hittites!

Cruentus
Inactive
posted 07-28-99 12:36 PM ET (US)     59 / 66       
As man over the years has looked to a deity or deities to explain phenomena (ie Thor's hammer causing thunder or Neptune's indigestion causing storms at sea), I too feel a need to look for one to explain the only thing I view as unexplainable- the existence of matter/energy.

Is it because my mind is limited as were the minds of the proto-Scandinavians huddled under a fir tree looking up in fear of the pyrotechnics in the sky? Perhaps. In a million years, will humans think the existence of matter/energy is as explainable as thunder. Perhaps. Its not really important to me.

And most importantly (in keeping with the dual nature of this thread) and concerning the aforementioned Battle of Jericho:

When are we going to get some horn-blowing units??? Will they come out of the barracks, academy or do we need a new conservatory building to train our new musician units.

AND THE WALLS CAME A-TUMBLIN' DOWN!

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 07-28-99 02:00 PM ET (US)     60 / 66       
Ah, cosmology arguments. One of the topics that cannot be proven or disproven in any way.

It has been nearly 15 years since my last class in cosmology, and I know a lot has changed, but in a perusal of Stephen Hawkings' A Brief History of Time, much has remained the same.

There is ample empirical evidence that energy is not conserved observed over a short period of time. In fact, it is a requirement of modern theory that it not be conserved on an instantaneous basis. An instantaneous "energy fluctuation" calls into being two particles, a particle and an antiparticle. Furthermore, the "reaction" has to have sufficient energy to disperse the particles lest they annhilate each other leaving only energy. These particles would aggregate, particles in one "universe", antiparticles in another. Repeat this process until adequate mass is accumulated to produce a "Big Crunch" singularity.

Cherub Desert Rider, as for radio-carbon dating, you are essentially correct to a point. The half life of Carbon-14 is 5730 years, I think. (I hate throwing out figures without being sure, so someone correct me if that is wrong). However, there are some other nuclides which would be more applicable. For instance, Thorium-230 has a halflife of around 75,000 years, and Potassium-40 somewhere around 1.2 billion, if memory serves. I believe there is also a naturally occurring Indium isotope that is somewhere in the range of 750 trillion years. Suffice it to say that if you accept the concept of half-life dating, there are ample tools for the researcher to use.

joecho, the whole concept of dating via evolution (aka, adaptive radiation) is that it is constrained by necessity of assuming conditions then are as now, that there were no drastic changes which would speed up the adaptive radiation process. The Green River formation fish fossils in Western Wyoming, near Kemmerer, if memory serves, provide interesting food for thought. A huge quantity of fish died as a result of the initial cataclysm. The fish are preserved as the sediment quickly buried them. As you progress into the more recent strata, only separated by months, years or decades you see fewer and fewer variations, and more and more similarity, followed by a profusion of variant forms of the surviving species. The amount of variation far exceeded the mathematical predictions, possibly due to the particularly harsh conditions. In this case, a significant evolution of fish could be observed within the lifespan of a single human, had there been any, and had they survived to witness it.

Hydarnes, I look forward to reading your evolution post, but please start a new one in the General Discussion forum.

BTW, this would be a good topic for the General Discussion forum, don't you think?

Keep your stick on the ice.

[This message has been edited by Thorfinn (edited 07-28-99).]

Local_Yokel
Clubman
posted 07-28-99 06:08 PM ET (US)     61 / 66       
"Extraordinary claims require extrordinary proof."

Extraordinary claim: Man came into existance through millions of years of evolution.
Extraordinary proof: Physical evidence, that does not yield to speculation or opinion, that actually shows the evolution of not only man, but other living things as well.

Extraordinary claim: There is a God.
Extraordinary evidance: As of yet there is none. Some can ask others to try and explain miricles and realate that to their oppinion of divine intervension. A "miricle" can have many interpritaions and definitions of itself based on one's background and/or environment. Many of the scriptures are the same way. No hard core "black and white" definitions of proven fact, but many vague and cloudy statements that anyone can derive whatever they want to from.

I am not saying that there is not a God, but rather that there is no concrete proof. I am also not saying that evolution is the only way things are but rather that there is evidence, not open to interpritation, that shows its relevance on its own. However, if God comes up to me on the street tommorrow and shows me His evidence, I would rather be on his good side.

-Local_Yokel
Have faith in the truth, whatever it may be...

joecho
Clubman
posted 07-29-99 10:33 AM ET (US)     62 / 66       
Cruentus,

Actually, I was referring to the Battle of Ai, but yeah, Jericho was cool, too.

-joecho

Field_General
Clubman
posted 07-29-99 04:10 PM ET (US)     63 / 66       
Hm. Fascinating. My head hurts...I think I'll go play some ROR.

No, but seriously, Evolution has to be ruled out as a method of creating the world. Once it was created - in whatever way - evolution does take place, but not real importantly. It's not like we all evolved from a single celled organism. It's more like, we were created some how more or less like we are today, and evolution could be responsible for differences.

And yes, whoever said that Carbon Dating cannot be used past a certain span of years is correct. The carbon decays at a set rate - something like 1/2 decays every x years, and after a while you have so little carbon that when 1/2 decays you can't even tell because our instruments are not precise enough. I"m not sure what the limit is...probably gets pushed back a few thousand years every few years as technology improves, but its' nowhere near 4 billion years, or even 100,000 years...

Oh yea, and the main thing I wanted to say about evolution is that it can't explain one thing : irreducibly complex systems. Darwin himself said something along the lines of "if anyone could demonstrate a system that could not be arrived at by a series of small, single changes, my entire theory would be proved false." or something like that. I can get the exact quote when I get home.

AND there are plenty of irreducibly complex systems....the little things in your lungs that beat back and forth for example...ah well, it's too complicated for me to remember off the top of my head, I'll post it when I get home. Just a quick summary : it's kinda like a mousetrap. A mousetrap needs EVERY piece. If you take one away, it's not like you have a mouse trap that functions 80% as well as it did before, it doesn't function at all. SO, we can see that a mousetrap was intelligently designed...It's the same way with those hairs? I think that are in your lungs. They beat back and forth and back and forth. It works this way....the sides of the hair are connected to each other by both springs and strings of uhhhhh proteins or something. The protiens or something contract, and the sides slide past each other, bending the hair. Then, as the sides slide past, they spring thingie gets pulled apart, until it finally pulls the sides back the way they had come, making the hair bend in the opposite way, whereupon the protien strands or whatever do their bit again.

The reason this is an irreducibly complex system is that you need EVERY part to function. I.e., you cant take away one part and have something that functions, but just not as good, it would NOT function. Take away the spring, and they slide apart until the hair collapses in your lungs...not pretty..you'd die. If you take away the protien, it wouldn't slide in the first place.

I admit this is really boring, but that's all I can remember off the top of my head....

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 07-29-99 05:01 PM ET (US)     64 / 66       
Hahaha. That Thorfinn is so stupid. He said cosmology instead of cosmogeny. And he tries to make a serious argument when he can't even keep the two straight. Hahahaha!!!

Seriously, though, Field_General, did you even glance at my post? I concurred that carbon dating would not be appropriate, but that there were other methods that would be applicable at those ranges. Rubidium-strontium! That's the one I couldn't remember. Oh, well, hopefully better late than never.

Anyway, I have an argument basically composed about irreducible systems, and if need be, I can even footnote it with references. I have some touchups to do, but hopefully either late tonight or sometime tomorrow I will post it under Hydarnes' thread in the General Discussion forum.

Keep your stick on the ice.

apocalypse77
Clubman
posted 07-30-99 00:19 AM ET (US)     65 / 66       
Yes, I thought our beloved *snicker* Thorfinn had become a cosmotolgist.
Lysimachus
Clubman
posted 07-30-99 06:01 AM ET (US)     66 / 66       
Guys this thread died yesterday! A new thread has been made in the "General discussions" forum. You will no longer discuss this topic in the thread from here on, but rather click the link below, and read post Hyd created called "Evolution: right or wrong? (For Mark_Aural and others)".


continue posting here:

http://www.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=showthread&number=9&threadnumber=000039

thanx!

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