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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » AoE/RoR Modding and Discussion » UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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Topic Subject:UPatch HD - unofficial patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome
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aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 05:21 AM ET (US)         


UPatch HD 1.1


For more details and full list of features - visit the official site.

NOTE: You are not allowed to use or include UPatch HD or any parts of it (including graphics) in other software, mods or websites (this includes re-uploading here) without the author's permission. You are not allowed to sell or bundle UPatch HD with other software, mods or services.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 11-22-2016 @ 11:33 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
dom0601
Clubman
posted 03-21-13 04:21 PM ET (US)     1 / 1953       
This is incredible!

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-22-13 00:31 AM ET (US)     2 / 1953       
what have you done to my people?! how dare you!! D:

Nah, i am just kidding. We can still kick anyone's arse!!

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 03-24-2013 @ 01:15 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-22-13 03:28 AM ET (US)     3 / 1953       
The final version 1.1 will most likely be released early 2015, but there is no release date or even an estimate - "when it's ready".

Your feedback is important - please report any bugs or problems (but not including ai or unit behavior/path finding). Also civilization and unit changes are still open to discussion, so don't hesitate to share your suggestions here in the forum.

----------- Features not included in 1.1 Beta2 (will be included in the Final):
- HD interface graphics - interface background screens enhanced to HD quality! No more upscaled blurry low resolution/low quality screens. Check the information below.
- The original CD audio soundtrack in mp3, replacing the primitive synthesizer (MIDI) version.
- Updated technology trees for all civilizations.
- Mod support with new Mod Manger - much easier way to create and manage UPatch compatible mods.
- Some other improvements.

----------- HD interface graphics and screenshots:
<Random Map>, <Scenario Editor>, <Achievements screen>, <In-game 1>, <In-game 2>, <In-game 3>, <In-game 4 - Roman interface>.

- What are the new HD interface graphics: The original AOE interface graphics are low resolution - 1024x768 and they don't look very good even in this resolution. You can imagine what happens when they are resized to 1920x1080. I've spend a lot of time and efforts to clean and enhance them (removing noise, artifacts, enhancing details and contrast). Significant part of the cleaning had to be done manually, as filters destroy details and don't work well with 256 color source. The AOE logo on the start screen, for example, was completely redone.
Below you can see a small preview (teaser).
Teaser image 1: BEFORE (only resized) ------ AFTER (UPatch HD)
Teaser image 2: BEFORE (only resized) ------ AFTER (UPatch HD)

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 12-27-2014 @ 12:22 PM).]

John the Late
Scout
posted 03-25-13 06:30 PM ET (US)     4 / 1953       
Seeing that detailded change list I just realised how few I had known about the actual effects of technologies and civ bonuses. Nonetheless it is funny how ridicolously high some bonuses are compared to the quite balanced style of AoK. I always also miss the different kind of tech tree restrictions.

I'll surely download this when I get home. (If I can still find my AoE CD, that is the only thing I am now worrying about.)
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-27-13 12:39 PM ET (US)     5 / 1953       
In general the fixes seem quite appropriate. I like the changes in the tileset and the possible addition of Siege ships along with fire ships.

But I have some observations:

I think that with the changes, the civilizations I played the most: the hittites and the assyrians could be getting quite downgraded. I am not saying that it is bad, but you are weking some of their best units. At least the Hittites have other units to choose from, but that's not the case for the assyrians. Also the slingers are getting more power and this unit is lacking for both Hittites and Assyrians (and i think it is cool that way)

Also, aren't Yamato warships too overpowered as well? I see you reduced the attach rates of persian trirremes and of phoenician siege ships, so Yamato balancing would follow in order.

I know that in PvsP games very few people use priests to heal, but in PvsCPU games I use them a lot, so I was wondering if: priests could heal automatically, your own or allied units within their LOS, and if Macedonians could get a techless temple, with only healing priests (that is, unable to convert units).

A lot of trial and error tests could greatly improve the balancing (which is something I doubt Ensemble Studios did, considering how unbalanced AoE was). Volunteer gameplay testers should be employed.
chab
Clubman
posted 03-27-13 01:12 PM ET (US)     6 / 1953       
Priests unable to convert should be possible to make.
The idea is to give them a conversion effectivess of 0%
I suppose it's possible with AGE3, it requires some testing of course.

However I doubt it's possible to remove ONLY the convert command and keep the healing one.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-27-13 03:54 PM ET (US)     7 / 1953       
You are right, play testing is needed to perfect some of the changes and I will be very grateful to anyone who can playtest the mod. I also need help with opinions and ideas, especially from some of the hardcore AOE fans, like you.
Unfortunately I'm very weak in Multiplayer (playing mostly SP & LAN games) and I'll stick to your feedback and my knowledge (playing since 1999). I already gathered a lot of opinions from different threads.

BUT, the real problem is the game is too unbalanced and it would take a great amount of effort - playtesting, experimenting, etc to make it balanced - something that couldn't happen (and would require a big and dedicated team, reference - UserPatch and Forgotten Empires). And in the end some people may not like the result (being too different from what they know) and prefer the original game.

So, instead, I will try to make the game just less unbalanced, carefully changing some of the most obvious and annoying things, reducing some extreme values + fixing the bugs.

- The Slingers will stay the same, I abandoned the idea of changing them for now.
- Unfortunately Priests can't heal automatically (confirmed), the code is somewhere in the exe and exists only in AOE2.
- Macedonians are lacking Temple for a reason, I won't change that. The idea is to have harder to convert units, but no healing.
- Priests not able to convert (removing the command) are possible (I remember experimenting with that, also used something similar to fix Hero Archimedes following enemy units - fix available in v2.0), but I won't do that.
- As for the Yamato you are absolutely right, I was thinking of reducing their bonus and will most likely be +20% in v2.0. Some other bonuses will be reduced as well.

About Fire Galleys: they are still an idea, I might decide not to include them (based on feedback), but here is what I have so far, please tell me if you think it's acceptable:
- There is no way of adding an extra page of units to the Dock (hardcoded, but IMO it wouldn't look so good with only 1 unit on it anyway).
- When you upgrade to War Galley and Iron Age, the Fire Galley train button will appear in the lower right corner (where the upgrade for Catapult Trireme/Juggernaught used to be);
- When you upgrade War Galley to Trireme, it will change its slot with 1 position to the right, making room for Catapult Trireme (with Catapult Trireme and Juggernaut upgrades below it).
Here is how it looks like (Iron Age Dock):

- This is the cleanest way to do it, other ways would have upgrades not directly below the unit that is upgraded, which is a little confusing. Another way is making FG require Trireme (this would mean other changes as well), not so good idea.
- I intend to add Fire Galley to (not final): Full Tech Tree (tested and working), Greek, Minoan, Phoenician. These are supposed to be the best naval civs in the game. Introducing FG to many other civs, but not them wasn't very logical IMO (especially considering the famous Greek fire).
- In addition: Greek bonus reduced to +20% ship speed, Phoenician CT bonus to 25%; Minoan ships cost to -20%.

If chab can make the resolution change work with no bugs, it would be great.
I'm already considering including modified exe with these fixes (again thanks to chab):
- ? new version number, making it impossible to go out of sync (I thought I did that once, but can't reproduce it, could just been a mistake with 1.0b exe).
- Computer allies don't change their diplomacy on accidental hits (Catapults, Elephants, etc)
- Less bonus resources for computer players in Hardest difficulty
- IF someone would take the job of updating the AI files: population limit in Single Player to 75 (or 100). So - I need AI builders.

All of the above would make it a great unofficial update of the game.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-28-2013 @ 09:06 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 03-27-13 04:56 PM ET (US)     8 / 1953       
- Setting any resolution
- Computer allies don't change their diplomacy on accidental hits (Catapults, Elephants, etc)
- Less bonus resources for computer players in Hardest difficulty
It's all possible with BinaryPatcher 1.0.0.2. And "patchable", that means it can be customized at any time, with any combination of options.

The only missing file is the INI for 1.0c options (including computer allies' diplomacy and less bonus resources for Computer Players). It's only released for 1.0b version right now.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-29-13 02:04 AM ET (US)     9 / 1953       
Now I see you could set the Minoan Composite bowmen bonus only after they reach Iron. Do you think you could do that to Hittite War Galleys as well?...they are a pain in the butt in bronze water maps.

Also I don't think the PC should receive less resources in hardest. It is hardest for a reason, but it isn't impossible to beat either.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-29-13 08:52 AM ET (US)     10 / 1953       
You misunderstood, Minoan Composite Bowmen have their bonus from Bronze (+ Improved bowmen), it's not possible to set civ bonus from given age, only from given unit. I can't even apply the bonus only to War Galley, without causing them to lose it if they start in Iron Age. I intend to lower it to 3 and will try to make it +2 for Scout ship, +3 for War Galley by using multiplier (otherwise it would stay +2 if you start in Iron Age).

@chab: I tried the new version of your Binary Patcher - it's great (although not so user friendly as Customize AOE). I found only few things missing and 1 wrong value, I wrote you a comment in the Granary. Can you help me with changing the game version so that be recognized as new (and no longer possible to start a game with someone who doesn't have the mod)? I tried changing the numbers with ResourceHacker + changed 1.0a to 1.1a with a Hex editor inside the exe. But I can still start a game with someone with 1.0a (and get out of sync immediately).

Check my second post - a list of all planned and possible changes for v2.0, open for discussion/votes. Custom resolutions might be on the way.

Please tell me what you think about my Fire Galley solution, that's one of the important decisions I have to make and have no one else to ask.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-29-2013 @ 02:50 PM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 03-29-13 08:29 PM ET (US)     11 / 1953       
I may have missed something, but Greece is still OP weak. Maybe adding the ship bonus to fish boats would help a bit?
(Referring to RoR Balance Patch 8.0)

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 03-30-13 09:23 AM ET (US)     12 / 1953       
Actually I think that having the War Galley button change location when it is upgraded to Trireme is the more messy solution. I'd prefer having a button not located under the unit it upgrades to upgraded unit buttons randomly switching location. Catapult Triremes back to the right please.

And is it really impossible to make a civ specific bonus appear in a certain age? That sucks.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-30-13 10:52 AM ET (US)     13 / 1953       
@Dubstepfisk: Thanks for the vote. So 1 vote for old Dock layout (with Catapult Trireme upgrades below Trireme). Waiting for few more. I really can't decide, so it's up to you.

Yes, it's not possible to have bonus starting from age, not without adding many new hidden researches like in AOE2 (disabled for all other civs, but one). The problem is I'm not sure how this will affect compatibility (and I try to avoid adding entirely new data or experimental changes to keep the game stable). I'll investigate further, because this could solve some problems.

@dom0601: You are right, I haven't figured out what to do with the Greeks. Making all ships 20% faster is a very good idea, it will improve fishing and trading.
May be some technological bonus like: all upgrades from the Market (or Government Center) cost 20% less would be good too. AFAIK Greeks are too weak in Bronze, not so much in Iron, right?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-30-2013 @ 10:56 AM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 03-30-13 01:22 PM ET (US)     14 / 1953       
Maybe slightly nerfing them in Iron (less techs), and helping them in Bronze (more techs) may help.
Then again, historically, Greece entered its Dark Age in the Bronze Age, IIRC.
We could also buff them in Tool, but they'd be a Rome clone. Or Rome is a clone of them.

Possibilities:
Implies/Compies, or buffed Bowmen (More range).
Slightly cheaper Axemen (works well with fish bonus).
In conjunction, we can remove a Siege Tech, if we nerf Iron.

Just off the top of my head.

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 03-31-13 01:04 PM ET (US)     15 / 1953       
Well now that I know that the Compostite and the now also the improved bowmen of the minoan have the bonus since bronze, I think now that you are going too hard on the Hittites...it reminds me the 1.0c version of The Conquerors where the Koreans where downgraded too much.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 03-31-13 02:06 PM ET (US)     16 / 1953       
Good news, I made some progress on custom resolution graphics (been working on that for 3 days, graphics I achieved are flawless and I created methods for faster conversion). I'll post some info and screenshots later.

@Suppiluliuma: I don't beleive Hittites are too harmed. To which bonus/unit you are referring? Their Bronze age units are the same, they have very good archers (second only to Assyrian, but assy don't have Elephant Archer & Heavy Horse Archer!) + bonus for siege units + ALL Storage Pit, Market and Govt Center upgrades (except Irrigation removed by me). Compare that to other civs like Persian, Palmyran, Greek. They should be somewhat weak as every other civ.
Unfair is only that they are the only civ without Fishing ships (I'll most likely fix that).

@dom0601: there is some logic in what you say, but changes must be more like a global bonus, not many small bonuses/unit changes. Removing units and tech is also less desirable and must be carefully done, otherwise things get too messy and very hard to balance (and I don't have any help with playtesting).

I'll post more updates on possible changes later. I've got some very nice and useful ideas.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 03-31-2013 @ 02:59 PM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 03-31-13 02:52 PM ET (US)     17 / 1953       
I see. That's one reason for Greek being in its state now.
BTW: Happy Easter/Passover to all!

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 04-01-13 00:32 AM ET (US)     18 / 1953       
Well I meant that you will be reducing the range of the ships, some Horse archer stats, and you're considering takking away centurions and armnored elephants from them. I still think they have plenty to defend with, but don't you think there are too many downgrades?

But as I said before, the best way to know if the game is getting more equilibrated or not is by test playing it

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 04-01-2013 @ 00:33 AM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 04-01-13 06:24 AM ET (US)     19 / 1953       
About the Greek, when Rasteve was working on his RasPatch he gave their slingers +1 pierce armor, and apparently he was pretty satisfied with the results.

Giving FB's +20% movement speed is like, what, a 5% bonus to their overall gather rate?

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-01-13 11:35 AM ET (US)     20 / 1953       
@Suppiluliuma: from what you say I think it's not the Hittites, but Horse Archers that are a little too downgraded. I insist on -1 range & -1 PA, but I think I'll restore their attack.

@Dubstepfisk: I'm familiar with Rasteve's work (and other similar mods). Giving Slinger +1 PA is not bad idea, but a little strange, I search for alternatives. What about giving them 20% cheaper Market upgrades (they were skilled traders and colonizers)?

What do you thing is the biggest problem for Greeks (what makes them too weak)? Lack of archers/archer defense?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-01-2013 @ 11:39 AM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 04-01-13 11:50 AM ET (US)     21 / 1953       
@Dubstepfisk, I didn't mean to say that the fishing bonus would be very significant. Just that it would help a little.

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-01-13 08:36 PM ET (US)     22 / 1953       
--- The Weekly votes

Weekly Votes are no longer available.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 01-03-2015 @ 06:00 PM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 04-02-13 10:50 AM ET (US)     23 / 1953       
Well, the Greek can actually be an okay civ for water maps, although they're not my first choice. You dock your shallows and then your economy is pretty safe. Although ship speed is not as significant as the Hittite range or Yammy HP bonuses, it makes a difference and you can actually achieve naval dominance against many civs.

Land maps on the other hand leaves you at a disadvantage against almost all civs. The economy of a Greek player is nothing remarkable, you have no bonuses and all market techs. The problem is, as you mention, primarily the inability to counter archers.

To survive against any archer civ you will either need cavalry (mostly too expensive to be efficient) or you will have to wall a sizable portion of the map, which then puts you at an economical disadvantage. Choson has pretty much the same problem but has an easier time coming back in the Iron Age, and a slightly better defense with the tower range.

Giving Greece a smaller economical boost like cheaper market techs, or a reduction of the build time of dropsites and defensive buildings, would be one way to reduce the effect of this problem. The other way would of course be giving them an efficient archer counter, bowmen, chariots or camels, that doesn't make much historical sense though.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

[This message has been edited by Dubstepfisk (edited 04-02-2013 @ 10:51 AM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 12:23 PM ET (US)     24 / 1953       
My initial idea :
Maybe we could give greeks +1 pierce armor to cavalry.
- Greeks will have an efficient unit against bowmen
- Deathmatchs won't be affected because they don't have cataphracts (yet we should remove heavy cavalry tech so they don't have a cavalry unit with 2 pierce armor.. Otherwise the bonus only applies to simple cavalry)
- cavalry would be a bit too powerful agaisnt towers, it's a serious balance issue

=> another solution to solve this cavalry issue : remove cavalry but add camels with +1 pierce armor. Sounds nice to me.
It would be efficient against chariots and archers, but won't affect offensive strenght of greece (camel with pierce armor look like cavalry, in a very more defensive way)
=> secondary reason : camels cost less gold, it's a good thing because greek already relies too much on gold.

In fact I think I will implement this in my mod ^^
Thanks for raising the issue !


Edit : by the way, I added +1 LOS/range for minoan's improved archers in my mod, so that composite technology doesn't give +3 range at once (from 6 to 7+2)!

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 04-02-2013 @ 12:45 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 01:45 PM ET (US)     25 / 1953       
@Dubstepfisk: that's exactly the help I needed, thank you.

I think I'll give them tech bonus (market tech 20% cheaper) + all ships 20% faster.

@chab: you can give Greeks camels or archers, but that breaks (further) historical accuracy.
Also giving Improved bowman only +1 range will create bug when you start in Iron Age (you will get +1 bonus for CB, instead of +2).
BTW, can you help me with game version number?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-02-2013 @ 01:48 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 02:16 PM ET (US)     26 / 1953       
You can change version number, but to check it in multiplayer you'll probably have to do some debugging, I can't help you on this (if at some tme I have some information I'll tell you of course).
I don't exactly care about historical accuracy, that's a choice, I clearly prefer to have a nice-to-play and balanced game

I'm interested about your remark on composite bowmen. If I understand well, it's the same bug as for choson legion, by example.
[sorry I forgot you've included a similar thing in UPatch, my suggestion was useless]

What exactly makes such "bonuses" dont work when starting at iron age ? How did you fix it ?
Does it happen when you apply a bonus to a specific upgrade of a unit but not to the whole "hierarchy" of the unit ?
(a solution could be to "replace" improved bowman by composite, it may be possible but it would require some work using AGE3...)

Edit : I just tested in tool/iron/post-iron age, my improved archers always have +1, my compies always have +2, no bug !

Other question : do you have the list of AI files you fixed ? And if possible some details about it
AI files suck because their name depends on the installation language...

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 04-02-2013 @ 02:35 PM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 02:33 PM ET (US)     27 / 1953       
Chab, the cavalry bonus works well. So does the camel bonus. I would prefer that they get camels, as they have a cheaper anti archer and anti cavalry unit. Cheaper market techs is also a good idea.

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 03:06 PM ET (US)     28 / 1953       
@chab: about changing version: I have no experience with that and I don't know what I should do, so any help or advise will be appreciated.

AI files will be included in the next version, I don't have a list of all changes in them (I used AI Edit to debug them). Are AI files really with different names in other game languges?? That really sucks.
What exactly makes such "bonuses" dont work when starting at iron age ? How did you fix it ?
Does it happen when you apply a bonus to a specific upgrade of a unit but not to the whole "hierarchy" of the unit ?
(a solution could be to "replace" improved bowman by composite, it may be possible but it would require some work using AGE3...)
It can't be fixed, it's the way the game engine applies bonuses (the base unit is very important and civ bonuses are applied first, then age). What do you mean by "replacing improved bowman with composite"?
Edit : I just tested in tool/iron/post-iron age, my improved archers always have +1, my compies always have +2, no bug !
Try creating this unit (not placing it in Scenario editor)

In my mod I'll try to at least not break further historical accuracy.

UPatch HD - the unofficial (HD) patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome - HD resolution, HD quality interface graphics, hundreds of bug fixes, new gameplay options and many other enhancements.
--- Download here (version 1.1 Release 3).
--- For more information visit the site.
chab
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 03:43 PM ET (US)     29 / 1953       
You're right about creating the unit, thanks for the tip.
File names : the installer determines the file names (AI files, ...) during installation according to... (a dll file ? Dont remember)

My idea bout replacing the unit : (composite archer tech)
- Don't upgrade improved archer
- disabled improved archer
- enable composite archer
- the units have the same location in the menu so it shouldn't change the UI

I'll try this, but no time right now
I hope this will work.

There already exist similar "replacements" :
2 house units
2 forum units
2 villager units
It's not exactly the same, but quite close.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-02-13 03:59 PM ET (US)     30 / 1953       
Ah, yes, I know that. But it won't change anything, because you just upgrade this unit to another unit with the same name and similar stats - exactly the same as upgrading it to different unit.

Making it a new (unconnected to Improved B.) unit, taking the same button, will work, but it will cause other problems (like AI training both Improved and Composite bowman at the same time).

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-02-2013 @ 09:02 PM).]

chab
Clubman
posted 04-03-13 01:48 PM ET (US)     31 / 1953       
Thanks for all these remarks, that's helping. I'm kind of stubborn and tried other ways to fix this.

I may have found a trick to have it work
That requires adding some data with AGE3 but it seems to be very possible.
Here is the example I tested

- Remove or disable Range / LOS bonus from minoan tech tree (id=86 - effects 4 and 5)
- Add a technology (name=MinoanBonus), id=218
- In this tech 218, add 4 effects :
* Change attr1 (LOS) by 1 for unit5 (improved archer)
* Change attr12 (range) by 1 for unit5 (improved archer)
* Change attr1 (LOS) by 2 for unit6 (composite...)
* Change attr12 (range) by 2 for unit6 (composite)

This technology just exists but doesnt change anything yet (unused)
- Add a research, id=127. name=MinoanBonus
* Required researches : 101-Tool age (necessary). If omitted or if you use stone age you will experience bugs (technology will be applied twice in scenarios and for every civ !!!)
* Technology = 218 (MinoanBonus)
* Min Req researches = 1 (of course, we just set 1)
* Type = 8 (maybe not necessary)
* I also set icon=0, default ws -1, not important I think...

- For ALL civilizations except Minoans, in tech tree, add an effect (I made a try on Phoenician) :
* Disable research 127 (MinoanBonus)


=> jackpot
Now only Minoan will benefit from "minoanBonus" effects.
Moreover, it's always behaving the same : normal game (any starting age) and scenarios (any starting age).
I didnt encounter any conflict between improved archer and composite archer bonuses.

Can you validate it's working ? I may have forgotten some cases
If it's OK, that means it will be quite easy to fix chosons' legion bug, and do some new other stuff.

Important notice :
- You must use a required research in your new research, otherwise it's applied twice. Moreover, disabling it won't work (so every civ will have the bonus) !
- Same bug occurs if you use a "trivial" required research, so don't use stone age.
- It also works if required research is not an "age upgrade" : I tried on "improved archer" tech.
- Sorry for scenarios in stone age, in such cases bonus won't be applied (but it's quite a minor secondary effect)
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-03-13 02:18 PM ET (US)     32 / 1953       
I'm familiar with this approach. This is just the way AOK civ bonuses work - new research + new tech, then disabled for all other civs.

I already intended to try this for Hittite bonus, but I haven't got the time. Adding it for Minoan is also good idea. The problem is I try to avoid adding new data (for maximum game stability and compatibility). But there are few empty technologies/researches that I will use.

I'll have in mind your notes about the bugs you encountered, thanks.

UPatch HD - the unofficial (HD) patch for Age of Empires: The Rise of Rome - HD resolution, HD quality interface graphics, hundreds of bug fixes, new gameplay options and many other enhancements.
--- Download here (version 1.1 Release 3).
--- For more information visit the site.
chab
Clubman
posted 04-05-13 01:02 PM ET (US)     33 / 1953       
Thanks to this method, I could implement a new bonus to compensate Persian and Macedonian's lack of wheel tech.

For these 2 civs, Iron Age technology automatically adds 0.2 speed to villagers (just as it improves scouts' LOS).
It's only 30% of the wheel tech speed improvement, so the difference between Persians/Macedonian and others still exists, but will be a bit less important. (having so slow villagers at iron age is quite a massive drawback).

A question by the way.
A read here and there this thing you wrote :
Woodcutters are 15% faster. No change for v1.0a (update 1.0c), only changed for v1.0 (update 1.0b), where it was 54%
I don't understand that.
Woodcutters (unit 123) have a work rate of 0.550000012
Phoenician bonus is +0.200000003 working rate for woodcutter (and also +3 resource carriage).
0.2 / 0.55 makes 36%
So this 54% thing only is a myth ??? Or there's something else I missed ?

What value did you change in your mod (old / new values) ?

[This message has been edited by chab (edited 04-05-2013 @ 01:20 PM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 04-05-13 03:54 PM ET (US)     34 / 1953       
I believe that the 54% not being true was known. Can't remember.

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-05-13 04:15 PM ET (US)     35 / 1953       
Edit: You are right, it wasn't 54% in ROR, but in vanilla AOE. Also, mine is currently 13%, not 15%, that will be fixed in next version (I'm usually very careful with all values and test every change, strange that I didn't saw that).

Expect a new version - v1.5 in a week or so. This version will determine (based on feedback) what will be kept/removed in the final v2.0. And version 2.0 will include the new resolutions and many other great things (including updated Manual with all changes and updated civilization tech trees).

EDIT: Second post updated with new possible modifications. There are some very important changes on siege weapons, so I need to know what you think about that.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-05-2013 @ 09:04 PM).]

DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 04-05-13 09:54 PM ET (US)     36 / 1953       
Looks like a good mod, but the Hittite changes make me cry. I can't bear to see them nerfed.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 00:01 AM ET (US)     37 / 1953       
As I said, everything is open for suggestions. What do you propose to be changed for Hittites?

But some serious changes are needed, as they are quite overpowered by land and also the only civ with 5 super units + Ballista Tower. Furthermore, their bonuses are very strong too + they have all Storage Pit, Market and Govt Center techs. There is a Full Tech Tree option, when you want to play an all-powerful civ with everything.
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 04-06-13 04:30 AM ET (US)     38 / 1953       
Well, since you give me no exact numbers for the AoE changes I can't tell if it's too much of a nerf or if the increased projectile velocity weighs up for most of it. Only playtesting will tell for sure.

About the changes to the Hittites I agree they're a bit much, you already decreased their catapult bonus and ship bonus (which was right, they were OP), but also the general usefulness of Cats and HA's, which are their main RM units. Removing Centurions doesn't matter much, but AE's are almost always part of a Hittite players DM strat. I say bring them back, and if they still feel OP maybe remove the Ballista tower or something.

Also, right now, Roman legions are significantly better than Cho Legions. That is wrong.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

[This message has been edited by Dubstepfisk (edited 04-06-2013 @ 04:36 AM).]

dom0601
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 11:23 AM ET (US)     39 / 1953       
Maybe they should keep the armor bonus? Rome can now beat them regardless of techs, in theory. Maybe a pierce armor bonus would compensate? It would make them slightly more versatile.

Why would you take the time to read this signature? Chances are that there are many other posts below mine.

[This message has been edited by dom0601 (edited 04-06-2013 @ 11:29 AM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 12:49 PM ET (US)     40 / 1953       
I don't intend to give or take small unit bonuses out of nowhere, but I will restore Choson Legion to +80 hitpoints, if you say they are too degraded.

@Dubstepfisk: the exact numbers for Catapults & H.Catapults are: damage area 1.5 -> 1.0, projectile speed 2.7 -> 3.5 (now 30%) and +10 seconds creation time (also for ballista). With the first 2 I want to make them more realistic and a little less devastating, with the last - to make it harder to mass siege. I could increase price, instead of +10 creation time.

Helepolis will be changed too (most likely +10 attack, but slower fire rate for sure).

Siege weapons are very difficult area to change and will take too much playtesting to be done right. So I will need your help. v1.5 will come with some experimental changes, that you can try and decide if they stay or how to be tuned.

What do you think of Priest -1 range and Cataphract vs Legion, are Cataphracts too weak for the price?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-06-2013 @ 04:56 PM).]

DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 04-06-13 01:46 PM ET (US)     41 / 1953       
My ideas for Hittite would be:
-Catapults hit points multiplier set to 1.667 from 2.0. Brings their Stone Throwers and Catapults to 125 health (was 150) and brings their Heavy Catapults to 250 health (was 300).
-Centurions disabled (I'm actually ok with them losing the centurion super unit).
-Ballista towers disabled to make them a "bolt-free" civ.
-Disable alchemy and rework their +1 attack civ bonus to be a free alchemy technology instead. (and make sure their projectiles reflect that.) Idea stems from AoE II how some civs get free techs either at start or when they reach an age like the Vikings wheelbarrow and hand carts.
-Enable long swords, improved bows, and fishing ships.
-I'm fine with warships range being reduced by 1.

Think my goal would be to reduce their post iron strength but strengthen their late bronze/early iron advantage. And they'd only have 4 supers now (Heavy Horse Archers, Heavy Catapults, Scythe Chariots and Armored Elephants).

Also thought about disabling metallurgy too, but not sure.

At least my opinions.

I did modify my empires.dat with what I changed if you want to take a look at it.

[This message has been edited by Cyrix (edited 04-06-2013 @ 02:58 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 04:15 PM ET (US)     42 / 1953       
No need, I (should) know most of the .dat file well after 2 months of debugging and changes.

Metallurgy shouldn't be removed, because Hittites were one of the first civilizations to use iron (and ironically they died soon after that).

Fishing ship will be added, Centurion will be removed, catapults are already at 60% hitpoints (120/240) and will stay that way. I avoid adding new units, when not necessary, and keep number of changes in Tech tree low.

But I'm seriously considering removing Ballista Tower + some economical bonus and restoring Armored Elephant.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-06-2013 @ 05:58 PM).]

DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 04-06-13 05:15 PM ET (US)     43 / 1953       
What economical bonuses are you removing?
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 05:27 PM ET (US)     44 / 1953       
I haven't decided, just idea. Most likely Coinage. Irrigation is already removed.

EDIT: BTW, free bonuses don't work like in AOK, you enabled them with new research (disabled for other civs), right?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-06-2013 @ 05:34 PM).]

DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 04-06-13 06:27 PM ET (US)     45 / 1953       
I just disabled Alchemy for the Hittites and moved the relevant parts (things the hittites can use) to their civ bonuses. I also added entries to upgrading projectiles to their flaming counterparts, but that was just personal preference.
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 06:35 PM ET (US)     46 / 1953       
That would make flaming arrows to appear in early ages too, even for Bowman & Watch Tower in Tool Age. What I meant is different, like AOK free bonus. Anyway, I know how to do it, but it will require new recherches and testing.
DoomFrost
Clubman
(id: Cyrix)
posted 04-06-13 06:42 PM ET (US)     47 / 1953       
Well you don't haaave to add flaming arrows. Like I said it was personal preference. You can still modify attack damages though.

Also what tool are you using to make your changes? I use Advanced Genie Editor myself.

[This message has been edited by Cyrix (edited 04-06-2013 @ 06:44 PM).]

aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 07:03 PM ET (US)     48 / 1953       
Of course I use AGE too, GenieEd is much harder to use (was great in it's time though).

New updates:
- All civs now get Wheel, including Macedonians and Persians
- Persians get Chariot & S.Chariot (historically accurate, it's even mentioned in the ROR Manual under S.Chariot )

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-06-2013 @ 07:05 PM).]

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 04-06-13 07:41 PM ET (US)     49 / 1953       
Well, I generally don't like the idea of Romans having better legions than Choson, in the unmodified game they're as good as equally matched. (Roman legs are actually a tad better but since their long swords are worse most MP players prefer Choson.)

About Cataphracts, right now they're not even remotely useful in any kind of game, in RM the upgrade doesn't pay off, and in DM they get beat up by anything else. The idea of trample damage would be one way to fix it. Their overall attack power should probably be increased anyhow if they should prove useful even against legions. (12 attack for a super unit is pretty ridiculous.)

While we're talking about heleopoli, I want to remember seeing them get +2 attack from the alchemy tech, an effect which is not mentioned anywhere.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
aoe_scout
Clubman
posted 04-06-13 07:58 PM ET (US)     50 / 1953       
The effect from Alchemy is still +2 for Ballista/Helepolis in v1.0 of the mod (same as default ROR). It is +1 (same as vanilla AOE) in future versions. I can't find a valid reason to differentiate them from other units by only 1 attack (otherwise, it should be something like: +4 for Ballista, +6 for Catapults).

I could add +1 attack, +1 pierce armor for Cataphract, instead of trample damage (it's a little strange to watch cataphracts attack nearby buildings with trample damage).

What about Priests?

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 04-06-2013 @ 08:21 PM).]

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