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Topic Subject:AOE Heaven Should Close It's Doors
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Really Usless Villager
Clubman
posted 04-14-00 06:40 AM ET (US)         
With all this mombo jumbo about AOK: TC, and AOK Heaven passing AOE Heaven, I think it is time that AOE Heaven should close their doors. Thats right, just give up to Age Of Kings.
AuthorReplies:
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 04-28-00 09:42 PM ET (US)     51 / 86       
Is it really fair to compare AoK and AoE / RoR? I made the point in a previous post that I would not be here without Dad, and nor would AoK. I would be worried if AoK WASN'T an improvement, especially since it stands on the shoulders of 2 giants.
Agamemmnon
Clubman
posted 04-28-00 11:39 PM ET (US)     52 / 86       
I suggest that if AoE/RoR goes way out of favor, then shall AoEH be independent from HGS. In other words, the site shall exist, but only separated from HGS.
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 04-30-00 03:28 AM ET (US)     53 / 86       
That's not the point, is it, Agamemmnon? We are talking about the games themselves, not the site. That is another reason why Really Usless Villager annoyed me. Even IF AoE is dead, why should this site be shut down? Let it remain, for the people who still play AoE.

I say: Live and Let Live. (Unless we are talking about Really Usless Villager)

AoE/RoR is the parent game of AoK. It might be outdated, it might no longer be popular, but AoK wouldn't exist without it.(Would we exist if not for our parents? Nope.)

Ingo:
What is AoK like? I haven't been able to buy it( or even play it) as it is not available here.

I've heard that the economy is more detailed, and the units are more intresting. (What is this "King" and "Queen" business?)

Are only the graphics and gameplay better, or is it truely different?


P.s. Only 7 posts to go

CoMBaT Villager
Clubman
posted 04-30-00 03:45 AM ET (US)     54 / 86       
i have AOE and AOK, they are each great in there own way. aok has way more detail in graphics and AI, but the main difference that sets the 2 games apart is "gameplay". they each have there own gameplay. Aok has things that aoe would be good with, such as tradecarts for trading on land in between markets, special units for each civ, thats the main thing that aoe lacks, civ difference's, not much besides buildings is different, but in aok each civ has a specail unit...

as for the kings and queens thing, there are no queens but there are kings. in a certain mode you start with alot of vill's and a castle and a fat king who cant do anything but run, the object is to kill your enemy king.

anyway, the one thing that i didnt really like in aok was gunpowder, jannisary's and bombard cannons and cannon ships. the other thing bad about aok is the towers, the best tower is the "keep" but it only shoots 1 arrow for about 8 AP i think, then theres the bombard tower that shoots cannon balls, it takes 140 or something AP, but i still love the sights and sounds of 10 balista towers shooting legions

AoE and AoK are each very good games for there own gameplay.

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 05-01-00 09:34 PM ET (US)     55 / 86       
Thank you Phoenix - at least someone got the point.
Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 05-02-00 11:54 AM ET (US)     56 / 86       
Hey Phoenix,

it's true that the gameplay is completely different. Combat Villager already mentioned a lot of things in AoK. Other things are formations in which your units move, and the pathfinding is much, much better. Towers still shoot one arrow like in AoE and RoR, but now you can garrison people in them - and the towers will suddenly start shooting multiple arrows.

The Town Centers are places where villagers can hide inside - they can also shoot arrows. The more villagers are garrisoned in a town center, the more arrows will come flying out of it. What else do we have... oh yes, the buildings are much bigger in AoK, and therefore more realistic. The shortcoming of this is that your units are very small, unless you have a big screen.

The graphics are great and visually stunning. The only thing I don't like is that your units always leave an outline behind buildings and trees. That is, you cannot hide any units behind trees anymore. If you hide a yellow enemy behind a tree, you'll see a bright yellow outline shining through. On the other hand, this might be necessary; otherwise, you may lose sight of your own units as soon as they walk behind a huge building such as a castle. The same goes for berry bushes, gold and stone mines - they are also visible as white outlines if they are behind a house or a tree. This makes them easier to find, but it doesn't look very good IMO. Other than that, the graphics are gorgeous.

Another novelty are the triggers - my favorite feature. With them, you can make almost everything happen and influence the gameplay much more than in AoE and RoR. For instance, when a unit goes up to the castle, a king appears before him, and a message gets displayed on the screen, such as "King: Welcome, stranger." You can also include your own sound files, for instance, include some forest sounds or even language sound files.

The Ai is very complicated to handle and must be tailormade for almost every computer player. This makes the editor harder to handle than the AoE and RoR editor, and makes it less userfriendly. On the other hand, the AoK Ai allows you to do things you weren't capable of with AoE and RoR.

Whoa, what a sermon.

Anyhow, if you can get AoK somewhere, it'll be worth it. Hasn't the game been released in India yet?

Ingo

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 10:51 AM ET (US)     57 / 86       
Ingo:
Thanks for the description. Would you mind elaborating on the "triggers"? They sound interesting.

No, AoK hasn't been released in India. Games (and most other things) take a long time to come here. Luckily for me, I've been born and brought up in the U.S., so I've had more exposure to computers and computer games than I would have had otherwise. Who knows, I probably wouldn't be writing this right now. I moved back to India a few years ago (family's here and other similar reasons) just when AoE was coming out. I hadn't heard of it at the time, but my friend told me about it just after I moved. Besides, you mostly get pirated software here, which is not only dishonest but also risky, as half the time it doesn't work.

P.s. Check your mailbox.

P.p.s. only three posts to go.

Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 05:52 PM ET (US)     58 / 86       
I'd rather not write a whole novel about those triggers, but here is the basic thing: You tell the computer "IF this and that happens, THEN do such and such." The IF is called 'condition', the THEN is called an 'effect.'

Examples:

a) IF the player's hero goes to the town gate, THEN a fanfare should sound.
b) IF the player selects a certain unit, THEN a message appears "Ouch! Quit touching me!"
c) IF the player destroys the enemy town center, THEN victory is declared for player 1. That's how victory and loss conditions work in AoK.
d) IF the player's hero dies, THEN declare victory for one of the other players. That is, you lose if your hero dies.
e) IF the player accumulates 1000 gold, a strange woman will appear, walk into the player's village and say: "You are a rich man, baby. Do you want to marry me?"
f) IF a timer of 10 seconds runs out, THEN an enemy soldier will appear out of nowhere, in a remote corner of the map.

As you see, you can do lots of things with triggers. One of the coolest things is: You can activate and deactivate another trigger with triggers.

g) Walking past a castle is no problem in the first 5 minutes. But a timer is running. When the timer runs out, a trigger gets activated: The next time you'll walk past the castle some enemies will appear out of nowhere and attack you.

You can also make several things happen at the same time with more than one effect:

h) IF the player's hero walks past the castle, THEN the king tributes 400 food to him, and THEN displays a message "Have a good appetite," and a THEN a guard comes out of the castle and says "let me have something of your food," and THEN this guard follows you for the rest of the game.

It also works the other way round: You have to fulfill several IF's (conditions) at the same time before the trigger goes off:

i) IF the player's hero walks past the castle, and IF the game has been going on for at least 10 minutes, and IF the player is in castle age, THEN this and that will happen.

If you want to learn more details about triggers, there is an excellent tutorial at this site: www.campaigncreations.com

Ingo


P.S.: Two more posts to go.

[This message has been edited by Ingo van Thiel (edited 05-04-2000).]

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 09:04 PM ET (US)     59 / 86       
It's the trigger system that I like the most about AoK - It helps so much, the fictional campaigns in AoE depend heavily on outcomes of the previous .scn, it would be great if you could guarantee the ending you want without having to play with the damn .pers. After that, it's just who's the most imaginative designer, or (in my case) who can at least make a reasonable game that ensures continuity between scenarios.

One more to go - any advance on 60, people? Some of the topics here deserve a new thread - but we wouldn't dream of doing that, would we, that might mean keeping the boards alive, and none of us would want to prove Really Talentless Villager wrong, would we now? <<beg>>

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-04-00 11:00 PM ET (US)     60 / 86       
60!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Ingo, that sounds really cool. I'd really like to try AoK scenario designing, because writing the story is one of the most intresting parts of scenario designing to me, and there's not much you can do in AoE. (Besides spliting the objectives into multiple parts of the stry-fulfill each objective, read the next part of the story, and go on to the next objective)
That happens to me a lot- If I achieve the victory conditions but destroy some object which is there in the next level, it doesn't make sense.
There was a campaign called "Brothers-Till Death Do Us Part"
by Sgt. Rock. All 7 scenarios were set on the same map. It was the first really creative campaign I played.
Anyway, in the last level, the objective is "die......."
When you do (It only takes 10 seconds as you only have 1 unit) "You Are Defeated" appears and the aftermath has a message from the designer, Sgt. Rock.
HOWEVER, I typed 'Home Run' speculatively, and after being Victorius, the aftermath said that I am not supposed to win and I should play again. As there are no more scenarios, it doesn't matter whether you win or lose the last one.
Ingenious, huh?

P.s. 60 : (I don't remember the rest of them)

Really Usless Villager- are you watching? ahahahahhahaha

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 05-04-2000).]

Myth_Pharoah
Clubman
posted 05-08-00 08:38 AM ET (US)     61 / 86       
To The Phoenix & Ingo

Thanks for the information you'll are writing about AoK. Which I've only been reading. Idon't know what to write about in here. Even I'm from India and I've been derived from Age of Kings too. Too bad!!!..And Ingo if you've designed any scenarios or campaigns lately could just mail it to me {milleniumkaran@priest.com} I really liked your cpn Two Brothers. One more question- Do you know how do mod files work .I've installed a couple of them but non of them work. I need them cause I'm making a CPN for my friend.( I suppose he'll be reading this )Sorry for to much asking.

-COOL CAMPAIGN ANY WAY-

- Myth Pharoah

Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 05-08-00 04:36 PM ET (US)     62 / 86       
Hi Myth_Pharoah,

thanks for your compliments on the Two Brothers campaign! It's the only AoE campaign I have, all my other stuff is Rise of Rome. If you've got RoR, there are three campaigns and one scenario in the "Best of RoR" campaign section.

As for modpacks, I'm afraid I can't help you there - I was never good at getting them installed.

Ingo

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-08-00 11:25 PM ET (US)     63 / 86       
Myth_Pharoah,
saala sharnya bhiku I AM reding this. That campaign is one month overdue.

Ingo: Unfortunately, I do ont have RoR. Thanks for writing back, anyway. I'll just play "The Two Brothers" again. HOW did you make such a great scenario?!?!?!? That "Hegon's eagles" defeat condition took me a long time to figure out. So did "Jason must fight Hegon himself".
Anyway, I might be getting my hands on AoK soon. The triggers sound great. I can't count the number of times I wanted the computer to change diplomatic stance or tribute me or something like that in the MIDDLE of the game.

Unfortunately, I got a virus called Tempest which wiped out all the files on my C: driveand replaced them with a file called Tempest.tem (created on 10-20-30, which proves its a virus)

All the scenarios that I've designed are gone.
(Apart from more important things like Windows, DOS, etc.)

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 05-08-00 11:34 PM ET (US)     64 / 86       
You mean less important things, surely?
Myth_Pharoah
Clubman
posted 05-10-00 09:41 AM ET (US)     65 / 86       
To The Phoenix(varunya)and Ingo Van Theil:

Thanks Ingo. One more question for both of you. The yellow faces that you put in your messages how do you do that. You might think this is a dum question but .... but i don't know it .... And Ingo I have ROR but it does not work because of some dum problem. Whenever I turn it on, it asks for the ROR Compact disk (CD) eventhough it there in the CD-ROM tray. If any one could help me with this (besides The Phoenix as he is having the same problem) please write it to me in the forum.

And this is for any one who could help me. I need to know how the mod packs workkkkk!!!!.....

-- Myth_pharoah --

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-10-00 11:14 AM ET (US)     66 / 86       
Of course AoE is more important than Windows, Phill, but how can I RUN AoE without Windows?
Btw, I really admire your meticulousness (Is that a word?)
I don't know anyone else who would send another e-mail just to correct one sentence.

Myth_Pharoah:
You @#$%^&**!!!??!?!?

For once in your life, will you spell something correctly?
1. Ingo van Thiel, not Ingo van Theil.
2. Dumb, not dum
3. RoR, not ROR
4. Myth_Pharoah, not Myth_pharoah (My god, you can't spell
your own name!!??!!)
Plus countless gramatical mistakes.
I love picking holes in your posts.
The yellow faces...find out from Forum Introduction or Forum Help.

Desolation! Consternation! My AoE CD is not working!!!
There is something wrong with aoesetup.exe. I hope I don't have to buy it again. I'm sure that this problem has been
caused by my C: drive being wiped out by that virus......

Ingo(Bobmbarded with fan mail from me and Myth_Pharoah):
Do you play (design, actually) AoK or RoR more? I'm going to try and get RoR, but if you've started designing AoK campaigns I'm going for AoK.

butch26
Clubman
posted 05-10-00 02:57 PM ET (US)     67 / 86       
Your cd is probably dirty or scratched and the drive cant read it. I have the same problem when i try to do a full install, one of the avi files is in a damaged area of the cd.
Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 05-10-00 03:16 PM ET (US)     68 / 86       
No need to put Myth_Pharoah down for his spelling, Phoenix. You also spelled "bobmbarded"...

I don't design with AoE/ RoR anymore, I'm into AoK now.

However, if you do get RoR, you'll have many weeks and months of great entertainment guaranteed! The Granary is bursting with lots and lots of great RoR scenarios and campaigns that have been submitted in the last 18 months, e.g. by the Rasher, Gordon Farrell, Rich Parker, Ty Freeborn and many others. You could also check out the RoR campaigns in the Mongolian contest (the link is on the AoE heaven main page). As far as my RoR stuff is concerned, I've got 5 RoR works out there, 4 in the RoR campaign section, and another one in the "Mongolian Contest" section.

Myth_Pharoah,

not sure if I understand your problem: Do you have an RoR icon on your desktop? And if so, doesn't it work if you double-click it? Alternatively, doesn't the CD menu open itself when you insert the CD into your CD-ROM drive?

Ingo

Myth_Pharoah
Clubman
posted 05-11-00 05:11 AM ET (US)     69 / 86       
To Ingo van Thiel: ( and not to The Phoenix )

Thanks Anyway Ingo. Thanks for the mistake you took out from Mr.Phoenix's message

And Thank you for telling me how to find out about the smiling faces.!!!..

- Myth Pharoah

Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 05-11-00 08:52 AM ET (US)     70 / 86       
hi all A lot of chess players play aoe. I always wonder why aoe is also a haven for the extremely anal retentive personality peeps
why is that?...i wonder..hhmm...hhmmm ..
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-11-00 09:15 AM ET (US)     71 / 86       
Myth_Pharoah:
Sorry about the spelling crack. You know I'm just kidding. It would be the other way around in Marathi.
Amit can't find the CD, he says he'll give it to me tommorrow.

Don't worry Ingo, Myth_Pharoah is my best friend in the real world (outside AoE, as well as in it)and we are always fighting with(you might say insulting ) each other. Don't get the idea that it is a one sided affair!!

Also, don't be so modest. I think that your campaigns, at least "The Two Brothers", is MUCH better than Imhotep's "King David Saga" or Rich Parker's "The Martial Emperor"
(I admit that I didn't even finish the first level of The Martial Emperor, building bores me. What do you think?)
(Myth_Pharoah, do you agree with me about the campaigns? I'm sure you do.)

Also, I wanted to ask you, do you make scenarios which are intended to be played with Reveal Map & No Fog? Those are the only codes I use, but I do use them a lot.

I have the same problem as Myth_Pharoah. On the RoR main screen, when I click on Single Player or Scenario Builder, it asks for the CD. This may not be a regular CD, because it also has a lot of extra scenarios and campaigns included under "Virgin Territories", "Heaven's AoE", and some other collections.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-12-00 02:04 AM ET (US)     72 / 86       
Myth_Pharoah:
well.... We always like to point out each other's mistakes.
And you DO call me quite a few names. But, somehow, it seems mean here, in public. So, FORMAL APOLOGY.....

I AM SORRY.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-12-00 02:07 AM ET (US)     73 / 86       
Remorse...............
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-12-00 11:41 AM ET (US)     74 / 86       
What is going on here?
Myth_Pharoah, Ingo, Phill, ANYONE?!?!

Are you there??!!?

Why has everyone suddenly stopped coming to the forums??

Btw, how do I set my preferences so that threads which have new messages are represented by a Red Folder? I didn't visit the forum for three days (after my computer crashed) and I can't make the Red Folders come back......

WRITE SOMETHING, PEOPLE!!!!

[This message has been edited by The Phoenix (edited 05-13-2000).]

Tenaciti
Clubman
posted 05-12-00 10:40 PM ET (US)     75 / 86       
I love being invisable It's so much nicer than acting *****y nm LOL
Ingo van Thiel
Clubman
posted 05-13-00 11:38 AM ET (US)     76 / 86       
Hey, don't get upset, Phoenix. It's just been three days.
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-15-00 00:14 AM ET (US)     77 / 86       
Just three days?!?

With my AoE CD not working, you guys are my only connection to the AoE World!!

Thanks for at least writing something. I see tthat the Scenario Design Forum is looking up. If you look there soon, you will find multiple questions from me a bout how you make your campaigns so GREAT!!!
(If you don't mind divulging your secrets, that is)

Thanks again.

-The Phoenix

HonoredMule
Clubman
posted 05-15-00 05:18 AM ET (US)     78 / 86       
the red folders don'w work for me anymore either, and it started when I had to re-enter my user id and password to the system for another year. (I can't believe it's been that long already) I sure do miss them. *the red folders*

------------------
Remember, AoE loves you when everyone else thinks you are an asshole.

Myth_Pharoah
Clubman
posted 05-15-00 12:27 PM ET (US)     79 / 86       
Sorry for not answering for not posting any message for a time, Phoenix. Its been some time since The Phoenix has also appeared. He is having a problem with the internet and won't be here for some time. Any one wan't to say some thing to him just tell me and I will tell it all to him.
Some times I feel that Age of Empires will close its doors in some times coz nothing but the forums are being used and I've been seeing that the Granary has not been updated since a LONGGGGGGGGG!!!!!! time.

( whoever is reading this please tell me what to post about in next time. I don't really know what write!!!!....)

- Myth Pharoah

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-16-00 09:32 AM ET (US)     80 / 86       
I'm fine, thank you, Myth_Pharoah. Who told you that I had a problem with the Internet? Also, I've been coming here every day. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Anyway, I'm starting on the campaign soon, now that I've got the CD from Pande.(Does he spell it Pande or Pandey?)
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-18-00 02:50 AM ET (US)     81 / 86       
Anyone there?
This thread is going to get an echo like the Scenario Design Forum had a few days ago.
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 05-18-00 09:35 PM ET (US)     82 / 86       
Hello Phoenix, been away for a few days, needed some QT away from computers so I was dragged screaming and kicking into the sunshine for a while.

Forgot to put a smiley at the end of my 'correction', it was a joke. As for windows, yeah it's a necessary evil, and a half hour install, no sweat. Half the crap you don't need anyway.

Am playing AoK for awhile, but the jury of one is out. So far here are a few likes and dislikes;

LIKES

- So controllable. Learn the triggers, not very friendly I know, but stick it out and you can do what you want, or at least much more than in the other 2.

- Covers another good area of history - and fiction (Robin Hood etc.)

DISLIKES

- Perhaps too complicated, driving away newbies and players who like a bit of strategy but don't have the patience of a machine.

- Can't find a speed editor for it so playtesting creations is a nightmare. The speed editor is the best playtesting tool ever for AoE and RoR.


Anyway, stay happy people, and remember - really useless villagers can be hazardous to your IQ.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 05-18-00 09:57 PM ET (US)     83 / 86       
Phill Phree:
That's us-less villager, as in outcast. Seems appropriate, somehow.
The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 05-20-00 12:55 PM ET (US)     84 / 86       
Phill:
What's a speed editor?
Anyway, I played 'The Vision of Amon Ra' and I really liked it. Unfortunately, I played only the first level, as I HATE building, except sometimes in Random Map. I thought that the story and map were both excellent.
Btw, how do you make those 5 axemen follow me around in 'Alone in the Desert'? Every time I attacked a Red Unit, they started moving towards me.Was that a custom .per? If not, tell me which built-in .per it was.

Wedsaz:
Nice to see you talking about something other than brass booms and +5.67348 farming for a while. Why don't you join in our non-strategy discussions sometimes?

Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 05-20-00 05:07 PM ET (US)     85 / 86       
To Phoenix

Glad you liked the .cpn, it looks very crude to me now but I still enjoyed making it, as a first attempt you know. The story is of paramount importance to me, as I am a story writer first and a wargamer second, if the battles don't fit the story they get scrapped. Yes, I modified the .per a bit, I took the aggressive.per and toggled the values for response times, distance etc. The way I saw it, they get converted or killed or you get killed. Make the response distances anywhere round 144 and they react pretty much wherever you are, then it's just how aggressive they are after that and how big the attack groups are (except in scenario 1 where all units were placed).

BTW, there is a bug at the end of scenario 1, because the scenario editor doesn't always like the destinations for two objects to be the same place. I have fixed this now, but it's a .cpx, so you need RoR to play it, though nothing else has changed, I just fixed the VC. For those without RoR, get Amon and the artifact to the cliffs and home run, you've done it. Sorry for any crap about that, it worked fine in testing.

I have now completed the follow up which is a .cpx. Get Ror, it's pretty cheap now, if you have a credit card, or know someone you can slip the sheckels to while you use it, it's $10 on buy.com, and you can play the sequel, and lots of other great RoR stuff from the Granary (much better than my efforts, although I'm gratified that some got enjoyment from them).

BTW, sorry if you think I'm labouring old points, but the new threads are mainly about the benefits of civs vs. civs to a very anal level, which is great but I don't feel I can contribute much to them. If anyone has problems with .pers, scenario instruction maps etc. I will gladly pass on the litle I have learned, 'cos I made lots of mistakes and Rasher never did do part 5 of his tutorial so I had to learn the hard way.

The speed editor is from the granary under utilities and allows you to speed up the game a lot e.g. very fast in the game is speed 20 and the editor lets you go to 255. I find about 70 very useful for seeing if minor changes to .pers and things really make any difference, without having to wait for hours. If you make your own stuff, get it.

The Phoenix
Clubman
posted 06-06-00 01:00 AM ET (US)     86 / 86       
This was a great arguement.

------------------
We make war that we may live in peace Aristotle
We make war elephants that we may leave them in pieces The Phoenix

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