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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Clarifications for Roman Guide
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Topic Subject:Clarifications for Roman Guide
WarLust
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 10:43 AM ET (US)         
As many already know, my Roman guide has been made public. After rereading it, I decided to post some clarifications.

There are some misleading lines in the guide that I want to clear up before I get flamed. I wrote this guide 3-4 months ago and while most of what's still in there now is valid, I wanted to "rephrase" and clear up some of the info.

1) Even though I hate the berry bug and would like to put 6 vills on berries ASAP, I have been going with 5. Once I have my pit up however, which is fast with Rome, I will put an additional vill on berries, usually after I have about 6 on wood. Usually, the berry bug does not show itself this early, therefore putting 5 instead of 6 initially allows you to use the other vill for wood gathering, which further speeds up storage pit time.

2). I also mentioned that vills 7 & 8 should be used for scouting since after building a granary/storage pit and two houses, you have enough for a third house and therefore can hold off chopping wood. Well, to correct myself, I would like to say that only use vills 7 & 8 if you have NOT found a forest with your initial scouting. If you did locate one, then put vills 6 & 7 on wood and collect for a fast pit and use vill 8 for scouting. This is of course after my clarification for item #1.

3). Lastly, I think I mentioned putting 4 vills on stone early. While this may be necessary for rookie to intermediate players to acquire enough stone to tower their entire base when bronze, I would like to point out that advance players should NOT do this and use those 4 vills for wood/food. Once advanced players get to bronze and lay down multiple town centers, then they can gather stone and tower up. This allows more advanced players to gather enough wood for chariots/buildings, since they are more aggressive then rookie players, who tend to be defensive.

I think thats about it for corrections. Feel free to add any comments or flames. Enjoy!

-WarLust

AuthorReplies:
Field_General
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 11:02 AM ET (US)     1 / 20       
Wonderful Guide! Thank you!! I always liked the romans - cheap towers, greatest number of super units in the game - I just didn't know how to play them. Thx!
NoSoup4U
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 11:06 AM ET (US)     2 / 20       
Good guide warlust, Rome is my fave civ with baby a close second.

6 villagers on berries is a must and go granary first if you want to tool rush with slingers.

I will submit my slinger rush guide which is designed for Roman primarily, I think it would be a good compliment to your excellent guide.

Breydel
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 01:33 PM ET (US)     3 / 20       
Hiyas Warlust.

I'm writing a Roman guide myself too (don't worry, it's different from yours). Before I read yours three days ago I already wrote stone and tool for my guide. Bronze and Iron should be finished this week or else the weekend thereafter.

Before I started mine I already knew that you were doing a Roman guide. I first didn't want to write a guide for the same civ as someone else and therefore wanted to change to Carthage. But I never played Carth as much as Rome (not even close) and so I haven't found out their best Bronze combo yet. But Rome definately is my favorite civ and I played my strategy well over 20 times so I decided to write a Roman guide after all. I hope u don't mind.


Brey.

------------------

Breydel

"Of all Gaul, the Belgae are the bravest" -Julius Caesar, 58 B.C.

AlphaPeon
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 03:27 PM ET (US)     4 / 20       
"A Roman storage pit requires 102 wood, compared to 125."

This made me laugh cause your writing a civilization guide but dont even know the correct cost of a storage pit, which is 120 wood, not 125.

AlphaPeon

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 03:39 PM ET (US)     5 / 20       
Fortunately, AlphaPeon, your Roman Civ Guide is so much better. I forget. Where can I read it? Oh, that's right. NOWHERE!

Nice job, WarLust. For me, Rome has always kind of lost steam once NoSoup4U's slinger rush has done its worst, and I couldn't get them out of their slump in time to avoid being steamrolled by his allies. Think I'll give Rome another shot before going to EQ full time. Hopefully Brey's guide will be out by then to delay the inevitable...

Keep your stick on the ice.

[This message has been edited by Thorfinn (edited 03-24-99).]

WarLust
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 03:39 PM ET (US)     6 / 20       
AlphaPeon:

Yea, I saw that today. I don't know if that was my mistake or Heaven's recopying it. I have lost my original typed guide so I can't confirm if it's my mistake or not. I will let them know however so they can correct it. Thanks for the correction.

-WarLust

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 04:00 PM ET (US)     7 / 20       
Though I commend Alphapeon's complete sentence for once, is he always such a jerk?
I found the guide very imformative and well written. But then again that is me, I'm far from perfect and haven't quite mastered this game yet, or more likely never will.

Come to think of that, I doubt Alphapeon has either, has anyone played w/ him to confirm my suspicions?

------------------
He who has the last peon standing, wins!

armagedn
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 05:52 PM ET (US)     8 / 20       
Wonderful guide to a versatile race (shame about the archers!). I wondered if others avoided the legions as well, as I rarely ever research 'em.
AlphaPeon
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 07:35 PM ET (US)     9 / 20       
WooHoo im getting roasted! I just merely mentioned a typo or a stupid mistake and thought it was a good idea to mention it so they can clarify it before someone REALLY flames Warlust. I thought it was a good strat even tho i prefer of just tweaking CD's guide in my head for different civilizations. Rome is my favorite civilization by the way, and i will most likely choose either assyrian or rome in a game that is non shang of course.

AlphaPeon

[This message has been edited by AlphaPeon (edited 03-24-99).]

AlphaPeon
Inactive
posted 03-24-99 07:46 PM ET (US)     10 / 20       
For O_Captain:

Zone ID: AlphaPeon

Play sometime to test your hypothesis, good lord im talking like my biology teacher...

AlphaPeon

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 08:39 PM ET (US)     11 / 20       
Warlust, great guide. Im glad to see that the academy so called 'civilization guides' section actually can use guides in plural now, a whopping 3 guides Hopefully someone will step foward and produce some more guides soon.

Just a comment, of the new civs ive found that 2 of them are actually competetive, Rome and Macedonia. While Macedonia dominates in bronze they are hardly playable in iron against helo civs. Anyways ive played Rome many times and the thing I like about them is their versatility which is unmatched in iron. Like you said they are the only civ with helos and Scythes. They are also the only civ with all the siege, all the infantry with all upgrades, all the boats (especially H. transports which are extremely useful on water maps) and scythes. They are the shang of Iron, but they will be brutalized by sumerian and hittite because of Cat superiority, but against everyother civ they can either compete with or kill.

I would like to make a comment on Rome's bronze though, which like you said is their weakest time period, but they arent completely helpless. Ive killed many opponents with their broadswoards men which are great units in bronze, even against archers. I've tested their broad swoardmen against many minoan enemies and found that as long as you keep producing you will eventually overrun the minoan player making it into their town. This is where they are really useful. In a standard chariot archer rush, you will kill villagers, but it takes lots of shots to kill buildings and so you wait till you get cats coming in. With broadswordmen you can take down their towns in bronze quickly, making them resign instead of having an empty shell of a base just sitting around, still capable of rebuilding. With the tower upgrade, Rome has the ability to have an army in the field and you then you only need a small force with all those towers to defend your town from raiders on your base.
Still your main effort with rome should be getting to iron, where it really gets fun. But this is just Rome's Bronze guide i guess. If you are Rome and coupled with a strong bronze civ with good archers, you can support him by being a quick base destruction unit for them instead of waiting for cats.

Sorry for the long post, but maybe this may help some of our fellow Roman players

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 08:39 PM ET (US)     12 / 20       
Warlust, great guide. Im glad to see that the academy so called 'civilization guides' section actually can use guides in plural now, a whopping 3 guides Hopefully someone will step foward and produce some more guides soon.

Just a comment, of the new civs ive found that 2 of them are actually competetive, Rome and Macedonia. While Macedonia dominates in bronze they are hardly playable in iron against helo civs. Anyways ive played Rome many times and the thing I like about them is their versatility which is unmatched in iron. Like you said they are the only civ with helos and Scythes. They are also the only civ with all the siege, all the infantry with all upgrades, all the boats (especially H. transports which are extremely useful on water maps) and scythes. They are the shang of Iron, but they will be brutalized by sumerian and hittite because of Cat superiority, but against everyother civ they can either compete with or kill.

I would like to make a comment on Rome's bronze though, which like you said is their weakest time period, but they arent completely helpless. Ive killed many opponents with their broadswoards men which are great units in bronze, even against archers. I've tested their broad swoardmen against many minoan enemies and found that as long as you keep producing you will eventually overrun the minoan player making it into their town. This is where they are really useful. In a standard chariot archer rush, you will kill villagers, but it takes lots of shots to kill buildings and so you wait till you get cats coming in. With broadswordmen you can take down their towns in bronze quickly, making them resign instead of having an empty shell of a base just sitting around, still capable of rebuilding. With the tower upgrade, Rome has the ability to have an army in the field and you then you only need a small force with all those towers to defend your town from raiders on your base.
Still your main effort with rome should be getting to iron, where it really gets fun. But this is just Rome's Bronze guide i guess. If you are Rome and coupled with a strong bronze civ with good archers, you can support him by being a quick base destruction unit for them instead of waiting for cats.

Sorry for the long post, but maybe this may help some of our fellow Roman players

------------------
The Who

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-24-99 08:42 PM ET (US)     13 / 20       
sorry for the double post
Hemlock
Clubman
(id: S_Hemlock)
posted 03-25-99 01:49 AM ET (US)     14 / 20       
AlphaPeon,

Although you "merely mentioned a typo," the tone of your message came across as extremely condescending. That, coupled with your tendency towards single syllable posts, can quite easily lead people to believe you are a jerk. If you are an expert at the game, post advice and tips. If you are not, ask questions. Either way us forumers will get a chance to know you better and we can avoid these misunderstandings.

S_Hemlock

-Captain of the personality police

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 03-25-99 02:25 AM ET (US)     15 / 20       
ROFL,

Very nice post S_Hemlock. Alpha, I would be happy to play, however, by you actions in posts I don't think it would be too much fun.

I have had enough with the same taunt over and over, speed changes every 15 secs, and other childish behavior that you have shown evidence of in your posts.

------------------
He who has the last peon standing, wins!

Spam
Clubman
posted 03-25-99 12:41 PM ET (US)     16 / 20       
The Who:

Sorry for being a know-it-all, but Shang has helos and scythes too.

Spam

[This message has been edited by Spam (edited 03-25-99).]

WarLust
Inactive
posted 03-25-99 02:25 PM ET (US)     17 / 20       
Spam:

You are correct. Shang does get helos and scythes.

The_Who:

I think what you meant to say and what I said was that Rome is the only civ to get helos, scythes, AND heavy catapults. These Fearsome Three, as I like to call them, can counter any unit in iron. Hittite and Sumerian can be troublesome, but most players of these civs use cats/HAs. This is often the case since the cat upgrade is cheap and HAs can be made as soon as you are iron without any researching. Both of this civs tend to eventually research the scythe later on, typically around mid-iron, when they have the resources, but its my first priority as Rome to get scythes ASAP. AS Rome, you do not want to fight a cat war with either one of these, as you will lose. I use scythes and helos against these two civs. Scythes kill the cats and HAs and helos are brought up behind to kill anything else that is left standing, HAs, dumbos, scythes, buildings, etc. Fielding longswords and legions against these civs would not be that advantageous. Roman legions do not have the extra hitpoints like Choson legions do and cannot survive heavy cat/HA armies. Once these civs start making scythes to counter yours, thats when you will start to see the benefit of having helos Thanks for the replies guys.

-WarLust

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-25-99 07:40 PM ET (US)     18 / 20       
In response to Warlust and Spam:

1. Spam: yes shang does have helos and scythes, but not fully upgraded helos and i was implying that Rome is the only with with ALL the siege, All the ships, and scythes. Shang lacks upgrades, and Heavy cats, as you should know being a shanger

Warlust: When i hit iron i know that i have to switch away from anything near the barracks because they can be easily kill with helos and even cats and fast hard hitting iron age archers. I do though upgrade them to long swordsmen and the attack, you'll need it for scythes anyways, and send them in kamakazi. Hopefully your enemy will be tied up enough for you to finish the scythe upgrade and start producing. Sorry for not clarifying that

Thanks for replying so quickly to these post

------------------
The Who

Spam
Clubman
posted 03-26-99 10:29 AM ET (US)     19 / 20       
The problem with playing Rome against Hittite/Sumer is that these civs have good counters to anything the Roman can do. Take scythes, for instance. Hittite have fully upgradeable scythes, and they can mix in HAs or CAs too. A HA/scythe army owns a scythe-only army. Hittite/Sumer also have the option of using elephants, and scythes are completely ineffective against ellies. Helepolis, you say? Yes, helos in good numbers kill ellies. But you don't need many Hittite/Sumer cats to destroy hordes of helos. An army mostly made up of elephants, CAs (against priests and for killing vills) and an occassional catapult or two to destroy walls and helos should be very hard to defeat, and it doesn't require any superunit upgrades either.

Here's an idea how to fight Hittite/Sumer with Rome: beat them at their own game by getting the Heavy Cat upgrade first. Regular ballistas with engineering are good enough to protect cats in most cases. You would then have Hittite cats (with +1 range) basically, backed up with ballistas (helos later on, of course). With a strong economy, this should defeat Hittite/Sumer. At least until they can get the corresponding Heavy Cat upgrade, of course. When all civs have superunits I think the prospects for Rome are bleak, given comparable economies.

My 2 cents

Spam

The_Who
Clubman
posted 03-26-99 09:27 PM ET (US)     20 / 20       
Yes, getting the heavy cat upgrade would put a Hittite and Rome on even ground, but until you have collected enough supplies to hold off the hittite and still have enough to upgrade the cats, you will probably be already dead. Hittite has something that is crutial to killing Rome early in bronze, horse archers. Sending in 5 hittite HA into the Romans wood supply will throw him off for a while. This will mess up his economy long enough for the hittite to come in with their cats which own Rome cats to kill the roman off. A good hittite player will never be delayed that long to give the Roman enough time to build heavys. Also the hittite will start saving for their own Heavy upgrade and in the end there will be no difference, Hittite still kicks Romes ass

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The Who

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