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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Why isn't the Rookie Room a Rookie Room?
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Topic Subject:Why isn't the Rookie Room a Rookie Room?
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Hemlock
Clubman
(id: S_Hemlock)
posted 03-05-99 09:42 PM ET (US)         
After popping into the zone periodically over the past several months, I finally gathered the courage to join my first game. It ended up being a 3v3 in which most of the players definitely were NOT rookies. I ended up being a liability to my team, and we lost. (Did we lose *because* of me? I don't know.)

In this forum, when reading posts about games that have been played (which I really enjoy), there seems to be an attitude about 'Those stupid newbies/rookies who didn't help me at all.' As one of the aforementioned newbies/rookies, I'm almost afraid to join another game, for fear of not being good enough for my teammates or being nothing but cannon fodder in a ffa.

Do the users of this forum use the Rookie Room as a gathering place for games? If so, why? Why not use the intermediate or advanced rooms?

AuthorReplies:
Cherub Herodotus
Clubman
posted 03-05-99 10:25 PM ET (US)     1 / 75       
Hey,

Yeah I know your first few zone games can be intimidating so you should try to practice with some friends in an IP game. Or host your own zone game and make sure everyone is a rookie, just ask people.

--------------------
Cherub Herodotus

Hemlock
Clubman
(id: S_Hemlock)
posted 03-05-99 11:43 PM ET (US)     2 / 75       
I've tried playing with friends in IP games. Unfortunately, as bad as I am, I'm still better than them. (Some of them still stop building villagers at 10.) I'll try hosting my own game, but I'm still under the impression that there are some veteran zoners who like to prey on newbies. (I have seen a few posts on various forums that allude to this.) Does this happen often, or am I being paranoid?
armagedn
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 00:01 AM ET (US)     3 / 75       
"I feel your pain." Yes, I recall my first few tentative steps into the "rookie" arena, where fellow "newbies" took great joy in floggin' my helpless carcass from hilltop to shoreline.

My only pieces of advice: don't give up. Open your own rooms, advertising "Newbies only," or "Just rookies," or find one of these and join up.

OR-

You could join any other game, and let them know you ARE a newbie (trust me, not all of 'em will believe you at first, so don't take it personally), and ask if anyone minds you playing w/ them. You will learn a LOT more by playing w/ the guys who will beat you (as you know).

After a dozen or so games, practice and exposure to various strats will enable you to "hang w/ the boys." And all the guys love to be flattered - so butter 'em up a bit, and get all the tips you can (the forums are a much safer place for this, tho!)

And pretty soon, you'll be cocky enough to attempt a go at the "intermediate" rooms - in which you'll be squashed like a flea w/in 12 minutes (TRUST me.)

Good luck, and good killin'!

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 03:02 AM ET (US)     4 / 75       
no probs hemlock. i was like that once, hell i still am. I mean i'm a decent player, but when i play GX forum games i see how sucky i am. and yes i prey on newbies, but only in fair odds of liek 3vs1. ;D I've whupped a few newbies butts in 3vs1.

------------------

quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
O_Captian
Inactive
posted 03-06-99 05:11 AM ET (US)     5 / 75       
Hemlock,

I feel your pain, and the scarey thing is that those in the rookie rooms for the most part are still rookies. This is a tough game and has evolved quickly. I won more than 50% of the games I played before I took a 6 month break in rated rooms. When I came back, I got cleaned time and time again. I even lost most of my games in the rookie rooms. But the key is to learn from your mistakes and find players of equal if not alittle better skill. Read the strat guides and set goals. Even good players still get munched by something we havent seen.

Some players can be cocky or rude, don't take it to heart. Be honest and if someone is upset you are a newbie then ask what you could have done better. And though some don't like to admit that they were newbies once, we all were. Most of us had friends that talked us into playing so we had some assurance after we got cleaned that it would get better. And that fear of dying quickly with your heart pounding doesn't always go away. LoL, anyways, if you need a partner, look me up. I'm not near the calibur of some that post here, but I can hold my own. And we can show some rookie thugs what this game is about! Winning!

------------------
He who has the last peon standing, wins!

Cherub Sting
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 05:51 AM ET (US)     6 / 75       
well let me be the first to talk about the other side of this, which is newbies joining games labeled "good players" or "experts".

I like to join games against set teams, because the good set teams usually label the room "good players" and I should be able to count on the fact that my partners, although random, are pretty decent. What do I get? Guys tooling with 12 villagers...guys making clubmen that never go anywhere, etc etc

All this adds to the frustration. So this is a message to all rookies and newbies out there. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a rookie or a newbie, but pls, for the love of god know your skill level and admit it to yourself! If you find yourself getting spanked around a lot, you probably arent an expert. I think thats a pretty reasonable rule of thumb, no?

Boneser again
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 08:22 PM ET (US)     7 / 75       
Hemlock,I think you will just have to get used to the fact that that's the way it is on the zone. It was that way when I started over a year ago and it always will be. What makes someone a rookie and someone else an intermediate or expert? I don't know and neither does anyone else. And that won't stop anyone from lying about it anyway. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with getting your butt kicked by better players but its the whiners and ror snobs like Cherub Sting that take the fun out of multiplayer for me. I have pretty much given up on the Zone now, because no one there wants to play for fun, only to win. Sad but true.
RomanWahoo
Inactive
posted 03-06-99 08:36 PM ET (US)     8 / 75       
well, quirinal is kind of an experts hangout. if u want real rookie games, go to esquiline or caelian. in quirinal, good players aren't hard to find, but really, rookies should NOT join expert rooms. it makes it really really annoying when the good players are looking for a good game and the newbies ruin it for them. really ticks me off...>
Cherub Sting
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 08:37 PM ET (US)     9 / 75       
Well listen Boneser, I didnt mean to take it like that. I didnt mean it like that, I have nothing against newbies. In fact, I dont mind newbies in my games, except that I dont like it when I label a game "Experts" or "Good players" and newbies join. I am not here to take the fun out of it, and I dont think I do that, because I dont newbie bash...I just dont like them joining my games. I take much offense to you calling me a snob, and I think that comment was not necesarry.
GhOsT2o0o
Clubman
posted 03-06-99 09:05 PM ET (US)     10 / 75       
Oh gosh I hate when people say they lose because of their team mate. Its not that persons fault, if your team is as good as they say then they could take them by themselves and let you practice. I used to play aka rookie deathmatches alot and it really seemed to help me get better since I could watch the expert players play and get a good mixture of Newbie Players and Expert
I play in rookie room but its normally when im practicing my sucky civilization. It kind of got annoying when ever no one would help and just totally wipe you out when your just starting to make military buildings. Also sometimes you get so used to playing a certain way when people put up rules sometimes people just plain forget that you have them. Not cheaters just forget alot. It doesnt take that long to become an expert it took me 2 months which was really quick.


Later GhOsT2o0o

Hemlock
Clubman
(id: S_Hemlock)
posted 03-07-99 03:09 AM ET (US)     11 / 75       
Well, I took the advice posted and hosted my own game. 2v2 inland, rookies only. To my surprise, only rookies joined. Nobody had more than a dozen zone games under their belt.

I started at 5:00, and my teammate (Red, don't remember the names.) started at 7:30. I quickly found 5 berry bushes and started stripping them, but knew that it wasn't going to be enough food. A little more searching uncovered an elephant next to 4 gazelles. Not much, but it'll have to do for now. (I hate hunting gazelles. They're too skittish.)

I know that early villager scouting is essential to winning the game, but I've never had much success with it.... until now. Knowing that food was going to be a huge problem for me (and knowing how bad I am in late bronze and iron), I sent out 3 villagers to find the enemy. I found yellow at 9:30, only a shallows away from my teammate, and green at 12:30, all by his lonesome. (What happened to that third villager? I forgot about him.) I hid the two villagers near the enemy camps.

I had found another berry patch, so at 11 minutes I finally tooled. After that finished, I went to place a couple of archeries and disrupt their peaceful communities. Uh oh. I forgot to build a barracks. Good thing this is a rookie game. After quickley remedying that mistake, I built my stables and archeries and sent three bowmen right into the middle of yellow's town. (Forgot to give them the armor upgrade.) I killed some villagers, he countered with axemen. "That's okay," I figure. "Seems like a fair trade."

With that, I turned my attention to green. On my initial recon, I saw that he had a few towers between me and his villagers, so I decided to send some scouts after him. (I didn't want to risk building archers only to have them cut down by the towers before they reached the targets.) Ugh, what a mistake. Yeah, they killed some villies, but every time I head back to my own town to keep things progressing, they stand around doing nothing. They ended up dying, don't remember why.

I bronzed shortly after that, at about 18 minutes. A few Chariots, Chariot Archers, and Stone Throwers later, green resigned. He had some good berries and elephants, so I sent a bunch of villagers up that a-way to live the good life.

My teammate had walled the shallows between him and yellow and was steadily progressing towards iron. I started moving the remnants of my little army towards yellow while building a few more CA's in his back yard.

About this time, I check out my teammate, and see he's got about 10 ST's and a few cavs waiting to go. "When are you attacking?" I ask. "Right after I finish iron and upgrade to cats" he says. "Okay, I'll thin him out a little."

I sent 3 CA's in his back door for a little "social visit." He countered with about 15 (improved?) bowmen and axers. Seems my original visit caused him a bit of concern. His archers made quick work of my CA's, but I had a key piece of information: All his bowmen were bunched together, having a little pow wow. I queued up some more CA's and focused on my other "army."

My 1 Chariot, 2 CA's, and 3 ST's left over from green reached his front lines. I tried targeting the ground where his bowmen were with my ST's, but the lag was messing me up, and he discovered me before I was ready. My ST's killed about 6 of his archers before travelling to that great woodpile in the sky.

Just then, my teammate came over the shallows with hoards of cats and cavs. (Yes, 10 cats does qualify as a hoard when your defenses are down.) Between them and my other CA's, we easily finished him off.

Thanks to all here for your advice and encouragement. I've definitely learned a few things:

1. Early scouting does work. Green did discover the buildings I had planted in his back yard, but it was too late to do anything about it. I don't think yellow ever found where those CA's were coming from.
2. Zone gaming can be fun, as long as no one takes it too seriously.
3. It's all a matter of perspective. Everyone that's better than you is an expert. Everyone that's worse than you is a rookie. (And I'm still a rookie, as evidenced by the mistakes I made in this game.)

Maybe next time I'll try working on my Iron game.

Breydel
Clubman
posted 03-07-99 10:35 AM ET (US)     12 / 75       
Hehe, it's nice to read your game Hemlock. I'm sure you had a lot of fun playing it.

Small hint: don't worry about that Iron yet. First organize your tool/bronze gaming better. Most games are decided in bronze anyway.

------------------

Breydel

"Of all Gaul, the Belgae are the bravest" -Julius Caesar, 58 B.C.

Boneser again
Clubman
posted 03-07-99 12:32 PM ET (US)     13 / 75       
It's good to see you got a good game in Hemlock. Try to keep those players on your friends list. With the right mix of people the game can be great fun. It's just that getting that mix can be pretty tough on the zone as Cherub Sting well knows. By the way Sting, did you read Ghost's post. If the guy is just average give him a break. And if he is a raw rookie then he is eiher a lamer or a bit confused. Either way you can politely back out or kill them quickly and move on to your next conquest. So what is the big deal?
Frankly all you tool rushing experts with your twelve min. bronzes should be playing in the expert rooms as hemlock says. There must be enough of you to fill a room by now, right? Leave the rookie rooms to rookies and those of us that will never be able to play to your high standards.
Breydel
Clubman
posted 03-07-99 01:41 PM ET (US)     14 / 75       
I have been playing in Quirinal from day 1 I got my RoR copy (November 15, 1998). I remember that back then Quirinal was not constantly at 240 players like it is today. I fought glorious battles in Quir, had my @ss whiped there more than once and made some real good friends in the past months. Quirinal is the place in the Zone where I feel like it's my home. I never played in any other room before except for a few forum parties in Palatine.

Quirinal certainly isn't a room for rookies only! Look at it. All other rooms have rookie, intermediate or expert between brackets but Quir doesn't. In Quir all people meet: from rookies to experts, from RM-ers to DM-ers, from tiny freaks to gig boys and even revealers and cheaters. No, in Quirinal everybody is welcome!!!

------------------

Breydel

"Of all Gaul, the Belgae are the bravest" -Julius Caesar, 58 B.C.

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 03-07-99 05:52 PM ET (US)     15 / 75       
I believe everyone is welcome in Q except those that consistantly kick my butt.

------------------
He who has the last peon standing, wins!

Cherub Sting
Clubman
posted 03-07-99 06:13 PM ET (US)     16 / 75       
once again, let me state my point. Everyone is welcome in urinal, but rookies should stick to games labeled "rookies" and stay out of "experts" games or "good players" games or "no rookies" games. I dont see why this is so disputed, if yer a rookie or your not sure your a rookie, play a game that isnt labeled for any specific skill level and see how you fare. It isnt difficult.

This is one issue I am very opinionated on. I dont mind rookies in some of my games, but I dont want them in my games when I am playing a no rookies game or a good players game.

Breydel
Clubman
posted 03-07-99 06:35 PM ET (US)     17 / 75       
Hey Sting don't get me wrong!! You are right about what you said. I posted my previous post because Boneser seemed to claim that Quir is only for rookies and experts should not play there but in expert rooms. Never ment it offensive towards you. Sorry if it looked that way.

------------------

Breydel

"Of all Gaul, the Belgae are the bravest" -Julius Caesar, 58 B.C.

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 03-08-99 00:35 AM ET (US)     18 / 75       
S_Hemlock
lol, to forget to build a barrack is not necessarily a Rooky aspect! I did it recently(lets say I am average)! it's not that I forgot to build it, I rather forgot to keep WOOD to build it! It's so easy to spend all this wood in fishing ships!!

I never bash on newbies. If you do that a lot, you get lazy and stop improving. You might also get very bored of killing ppl without any chalenge.

Why do you find experts in non-rated-newby rooms? Because you cannot find a non-rated average+ room with more than 25 players on the zone. Everybody is in the Rooky rooms (AoE)... so, if those experts want to play a game, they must go where players are... as simple.

You want to play with ppl of your level? Go to rated rooms. Players with a big rating difference will refuse to play you

Phil

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 03-08-99 05:18 AM ET (US)     19 / 75       
I wish it was so simple, I play more Q than rated for the fact that it can easily take 15min to get a game going in Matty's versus a few minutes in Q. So that is why there is a vast difference of skill levels. Q is the hot spot. And Phil, Im sure you have never done this, but smurfing does occur in rated rooms which is similar to experts playing in rookie rooms.

I do support Sting in that I do play alot of expert or good player titled games in Q and nothing is worse than looking at the achievements 15 min in the game and one of the players have 12 peons and bronze around 25 min never getting hit. It takes the fun out of the game for the other 5 players.

------------------
He who has the last peon standing, wins!

neilkaz
Clubman
posted 03-08-99 12:47 PM ET (US)     20 / 75       
Hemlock that is a superb right up of your fun victory. Sounds you are better than a newbie to me ! What you basically did was complete Bronze in 18 after launching minor tool offensives on both players. Many newbies can't bronze in 18 while staying at home "playing sim city"

So continue to title your games rookies, but if you keep that title and keep bashing them you may have to drop the title. The quality of players IMO clearly is better in Q than in the rookie rooms. No good player here should ever enter a game titled rookies only.

However, there are few players in intermediate or expert rooms so it is hard to find a game there. Q is often full so good players go into the rookie rooms. If I do that I title the game "experts only" to make sure rookies won't join and become cannon fodder. Remember, good players, you are in the rookie room.. just as much as you don't want newbies in your game, they don't want you in their games.

Some advice on your game, Hemlock.

1) Scouts need to be reassigned to kill additional vils after the attackee dies. They only attack defensively if they are attacked.

2) Concentrate on tool rushing just one opponent.

3) It is wasteful to have 3 explorers standing around doing nothin... try to build a rax w/them or have them chop wood or gather some resource while waiting to build your military buildings.

Welcome to the world of multiplayer.. neilkaz ..

FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 03-08-99 01:45 PM ET (US)     21 / 75       
Why bash on rookies? I would rather bash on experts

Well, good luck Hemlock.

Here is my suggestion on how to learn fast:

Play some games, and when you meet a "really good" player that beats you, don't resign but start asking him questions and if he is nice, you can become friends with him. He will teach you some stuff and play some co-op games so that you can see how his playes.

Eventually you will meet good players who are willing to help out rookies.

BTW.. I disagree with all you guys telling them to say out of expert/intermediate games. I would actually incourage him to play there. Just tell them first that you are not a very good plyaer yet. Playing and losing to experts will teach you a lot more then playing and beathing rookies. After couple of games with experts you will be able to bash on rookies yourself. So go out there and start harassing good players to play.

[This message has been edited by FanatiC KaBaN (edited 03-08-99).]

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-08-99 02:46 PM ET (US)     22 / 75       
Sure, Fanatic_KaBaN, but the time to tell everyone you are a rookie is during game setup. Don't make your ally find out by looking at achievements.

Keep your stick on the ice.

King Crash
Inactive
posted 03-08-99 03:19 PM ET (US)     23 / 75       
I think the main problem is that there are too many rookie rooms. People always hop into the rookie rooms first which means those are the only ones that are full (except maybe on a Sunday night).

I think the number of rookie rooms should be reduced and more intermediate rooms should be opened. especially when a game has been around as long as AOE, there is a lot less need for so many rookie rooms.

On a side note, Hemlock, you state you tooled in 11 and Bronzed in 18, despite tool rushing and scouting prolificly. I know of NO rookies that could do the same.
In fact, I would often be glad to Bronze in 18 given those circumstance and I don't think I deserve to be called rookies (although I'm sure some of my past opponents might think so).

In short, force people to choose something other than a rookie room and I think we would all be better off.

KC

AlphaPeon
Inactive
posted 03-08-99 03:58 PM ET (US)     24 / 75       
I just wanted to say that I hate it when rookies/newbies join expert games. And yes, the experts should try to stay out of the rookie rooms, i only go in there to yell at all the flooders.

AlphaPeon

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 03-08-99 06:54 PM ET (US)     25 / 75       
O_Captian
of course I have been smufing! Unfortunatly, I did not have much choice to do so. I created a few new logons recently and played some chess games against 1500-1600 players while my real one was much higher than that. At AoE/RoR, my new name (MiC_Biodigestor) forced me to smurf a bit in rated rooms, but in that case, I really was a Rooky, a RoR rooky! I wonder if that counts?

Whatever, smurfing might be a good thing to do sometimes, just for the pleasure of highliting all the progress you have made by playing against former "rooky friends". Personnaly, I consider it a HUGE LOSS OF TIME to smurf, since I do not get ANY satisfaction to beat them up. I am sure all most average players+ feel like me...

Phil

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