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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » I am amazed, shocked and almost dead!!!! U must read this!!!!
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Topic Subject:I am amazed, shocked and almost dead!!!! U must read this!!!!
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 04:59 PM ET (US)         
Ok, to begin, elijeh believes that egyptians were black, which some of you are already aquainted(sp?) with. Here is my response to his topic called "Egypts ethnic composition"

":To start off with I totally agree with Steve Ryan!

To everyone: Of course Egypt had many blacks!! But the predominant color, which everyone (we’ll, most everyone) knows them as, is taned (which the game shows).


To elijeh: Yes, the Carthaganians might have had blacks, but the predominant color was white (or tanned). whatever... So that’s why the Carthys are taned in the game. And just to make this clear the game shows everyone as tanned not white. The eastern civs were the color that the game shows them.

To elijeh: Of course historians are made up of mainly whites, but do, or did they say that Indians are blond whites??? NO! because they aren’t and weren’t. So why won’t they say that Egyptians were predominantly black, if they were?


All history points out that the main class of Egyptians were Tan color, not a black race.


P.S. actually egyptians were blue wern't they!!! I see them blue everytime I see
pictures of egyptians. maybe I'm color blind. LOL.....hehehhehe"

But... that's not the end of it. A few days ago I talked to him on the zone, and we were arguing(sp?). I couldn't understand what he was meaning by "Egyptians were black", so I asked him if this what what he means: "Egyptians were really black, but they painted and made busts of themselves as tanned, to decieve everyone and think that they were tanned when they were really black" and this was his response "yup" I couldn't believe him!!!! I mean, even when the mummies prove him wrong he still sticks to such a...... theory. aaaaaahhhhhhh !!! I almost forgot, he even stated that Nefertiti was black, when they even made a bust of her that shows she wasn't black or even had black features. Give me your opinion, if you agree with elijeh. aaaaaahhhhh he's gunna read it.... hehe

AuthorReplies:
Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 05:15 PM ET (US)     1 / 28       
It's pretty easy to rattle your cage, isn't it?
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 05:35 PM ET (US)     2 / 28       
Hydranes. Go study eygyptian art. The anceint egytpians painted Gods as Black-blue, and them-selves as Redish, whitish. Now the one thign i will give you is that Lower egypt likely had a large portion of Whites, mulattos, and blacks. However, the predominant egyptian color was black. Now explain to me why they painted gods black, but they didn't paint themselves black?

Also do not defend with your old, lame, and stale "their pharohs had no black features" as many people will tell you, the Negro peoples features are as diverse as any Features of Caucasians. Also before Ahkaten(the heritic-king) egyptian pharohs were always PERFECT in form. The amrched, as if in battle order, with their familys, in a highly stylized form.

Also if nothing else explains it, logic tells you that Blacks must be more dominant, this is africa, and a desert seperated Syria, and egypt. So neo-lithic peoples trekked across desert, for no apparant reason, just to hope they fidn a good place to live? I doubt it. Almos tall Bronze age settlements were founded on neolithic settlements. And the majority of neolithic settlements occured along rivers, mountains, and oceans. Why? YOU have a landmark to guide you. not so in the desert, ever been to a desert? its easy to get lost in one. So stop your prattling.

And abotu Carthage, the carthaganians WERE BLACK. Did you know that a Roman emperor was black? Hmmmmmm? yup. the books i draw my info from, are at school at the moment so i have no names because i haven't memorize them. The carhtaganians may have been white in the earliest parts of their years, but gradduly, through intermarrying they became darker. Just because you have PRE-concieved notiosn, base don a video game, which dos not even resonably portray history as accurate, does not mean that you are right. Also the first "great Egyptian" queen, Tiy, had very visable Negro features.

So, Shut up and sit down. Your prattlign has grown annoying and even i, one of the more lenient members of this forum, is growing tired with you and your preconcieved truth.

P.S.the "most everyone" defense blows. Many things happened that "most everyone" dosn't know of. Also, how is skin pigment perserved in mummies? Last i heard, the bodies rotted, and they all look blackened.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 06:31 PM ET (US)     3 / 28       
I really don't care what they painted the gods as! I care what they painted themselves as. You really think that I'm gunna believe you over all the archeologists. I have the portrait of queen Tiy drawn by an archeologist and she is WHITE WHITE WHITE and doesn't have a single black feature. I will give you her portrait sunday. but first can someone tell me how to paste a scanned picture here in the forums???????? I tried copy, paste and it doesn't work. And if your wondering the picture was drawen by an archeologist.
Vixen
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 07:26 PM ET (US)     4 / 28       
Hydarnes said:

"WHITE WHITE WHITE"

And your point is...?

What are you trying to "prove" here anyway?

The Vixeness Herself
(finally fed up with Hydarnes´ endless and pretty f****** senseless ramblings on several topics throughout the forums)

Rumata
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 09:22 PM ET (US)     5 / 28       
Elijeh, the only comment I would make here as a linguist is that the Ancient Egyptian language belonged to the Semoto-Hamitic group, i.e. was a relation to Arabic and the language of the Jews. So they would naturally look more like Arabs/Jews than black, although in such an empire there would be a lot of ethnic diversity. From the point of view of antropology modern Ethiopians offer a very interesting blend of Semito-Hamitic and Negroid features (very beautiful women there )))))
Z_o_r_r_o
Inactive
posted 02-26-99 10:56 PM ET (US)     6 / 28       
Images of confederate flags and white cloaks with hoods are coming to my mind...
QuintiliusVarus
Inactive
posted 02-26-99 11:11 PM ET (US)     7 / 28       
There is nothing more revolting to me than revisionist history. The mummies are conclusive. A forensic scientist can hold a bare skull in her/his hand and tell you of what race it belongs. On the point of artwork, the kingdom of Kush in Nubia adopted Egypt's artistic conventions and adapted them to their own physical appearance, which was black. The difference between there artwork and the Egytians' artwork clearly shows the difference in ethnic background.

This is another example of people's rejection of logical science in favour of their own weird ideas, an epidemic which will rip our civilization apart and return it to the dark ages.

And who is this black Emperor? Sure a lot of those guys were from the provinces, but that I've never heard of. I think Elijeh read a reference to an African Emperor, there were several of those, but that doesn't neccessary mean black. In general blacks live south of the Sahara.

Elijeh, I mean no disrespect and feel free to correct anything I'm wrong about if you can name the sources of your info.

There is no need to credit black culture with things that it had not much to do with, that which was geninuenly accomplished by blacks is pretty good. Check out the Kushites, they impress me.

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-27-99 00:22 AM ET (US)     8 / 28       
sure, i read "great civilazations of ancient africa" by Lester Brooks. now the Arguments for the egyptians being black, are't huge, as the book largely deals with the CULTURE of egypt. there are chapters devoted to Kush, Songhay, Ghana, Mali, and Ehtiopia.

Also i don't believe soemone can tell what race someone is judged by their "head shape" i knwo plety of blakc people who don't share the standerd "negro" features; Broad nose, large lips, and wiry hair. Your "black features" bull*****is becoming annoying. and fro mwhat i've seen of Nerferiti, ahknten, and Tiy, they all look "black" with "black features". Oh well.

Maybe i had the roman emperor wrong. But i doubt that the egyptians were white. but howeve rif someone can provide a logical sound excuse as to why a neo-lithic semetic people from Syria, mesopotamia, or asia minor, migrated to egypt, i will change my conclussion.

Hydranes, like i've todl you, the egyptians used a stylized sysmtem of art. And that system has meanings we still don't know. However i doubbt that all the pharohs looked almost identical, or were all in execelent physical condition. And they used Reddish white, to represent normal people, whiel dieties were portraye din black.

wuintillus i respect your orderly methods. Mayeb i am wrong. however Hydranes, seems to think Age Of Empires, a game, which dosn't portray half of what it tries to correctly, is the END ALL source for what color a people were. I wonde rif Malie, Ghana, songhay, Etheopia or Anumb-(grr something) will have in relevance in AoK

Bastyrdus I
Inactive
posted 02-27-99 04:05 AM ET (US)     9 / 28       
I don't believe I have all the information to assume what the predominant race of Egypt was during any certain point. I would take a stab at the probability it fluctuated after certain periods of war or famine.

At any rate, let me clear something up for all of you, scientifically. I would remind you that this is fact, and the results of the creator, or evolution, or whatever your religion dictates. True science is not racism.

There are three known races of Homo sapiens sapiens:

Caucasoid: The head, from above, is oblong; the front of the skull is thinner than the rear.

Negroid: The head, from above, is oval; the front of the skull is only slightly thinner than the rear.

Mongoloid: The head, from above, is round; the width of the front of the skull is nearly equal to that of the rear.

Although these are only the skull shapes, other parts of the skeleton are slightly different, as well. I am no racist, and if you knew my family history, you'd know why it'd be almost impossible; but that's too long to get into.
But, here it is, we are structually different. Someone who knows these differences (i.e.forensic specialist) can tell the race of a body.

This is not to tell our regional differences, though. A caucasion of European descent has the same skeletal structure as one of North African. As do Koreans and Japanese. Ethnic differences, like skin tone, eye color, nose width, hair color, ad nauseum, are most visible closer after death, or when well embalmed.

You all might check out all of the rescources at your local library... blah blah blah....

Anyways...

------------------
-Bastyrdus I
"THAT F'N BASTARD!"

[This message has been edited by Bastyrdus I (edited 02-27-99).]

Sean
Clubman
posted 02-27-99 12:01 PM ET (US)     10 / 28       
This is the lamest thread I've ever seen, I meen gimme a break, Who gives a care whether the egyptains were black, or white... or tan, or green, or yellow, or blue, or gold, or brown, (The list goes on and on). And besides, ES is not going to change them.


/|\ ~~~~~~ Death to Greeks ~~~~~~
/_\ ~~~~~~ Long live Shang ~~~~~~

Yours truely Sean

History049
Inactive
posted 02-27-99 12:11 PM ET (US)     11 / 28       
Blah blah who cares????

"Those who do not know the past are condemned to repeat it"- George Santayana!

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-27-99 05:12 PM ET (US)     12 / 28       
elijeh, I'm not sure your aware of the new technology there is today, for u act like they can not reconstruct the face(sp?)of a mummy. They have done so, and found that the egyptian kings had no black features(sp?). So another words, if that is correct, than the Egyptians are correct on how they painted themselves. And yes they did paint some of the Gods blue, but that was only Osiris who was supposed to have died in the painting, so..... I mean that's still elementry to think that Egyptians were black. You expect me to believe you, and this 1 little book, over all the archeologists, and scientific evidence??? ¿


Elijeh, I never saw the game, then made my conclusion that they were tanned. I saw the archeological evidence, and wall paintings of the egyptians, then realized that the game shows the accurate color.


P.S. I will give you a picture of queen Tiy--(drawn by an archeologist, and taken from her portraits),tonight, if someone can PPPPLLLLEEEEAAASSSSSEEEE tell me how to copy and paste from a scanned picture unto the forums, if that’s how to do it. THANX


[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 02-27-99).]

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 02-27-99).]

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-27-99 09:57 PM ET (US)     13 / 28       
Hydranes..Just what are "black" Features? Besides the skull structure(thank you Bastyrdus, I take my comment back about the Skull, but what about the Peasentry of Egypt? we haven't found their bones). you haven't made clear what "black" features are. and before you say: Sloping forehead, large nostrils, wiry hair, or anything liek that. I've met many, many, many Black people who don't "conform" to that. Go to the Bahamamas. Many blacks done there have very Aquiline noses. So Please what are "black features" ?

Also as i said, what about the peasentry, that has been estimated to take up a good 80% of the population of Egypt. So maybe a few Pharohs were white, but thats only at msot 3,000 Pharohs(thats wrong i think, that would be a pharoh a year, lets put it at 1000, gives an average of 30 years of reigning.)

if nothing else the Old and Middle kingdoms, had many more Blacks than whites, But after the Hyksosi invaded, and opened routes to syria/meopotamia. this meant many more white peoples could migrate t oLower egypt, which was held by the semetic Hyksosi.

answer my question with logic though. How did white(caucasoids) migrate to Lower egypt from Asia minor/arabia/mesopotamia? No logic explains it. However logic would explain the migration of Negro peoples from the south to Upper, and Lower egypt. Also Ahkanaten, and Another king/Pharoh, were black.

And i laugh at your "proof" of the Carthaganians being White. The original New City(Carthagido i believe its pronounced in Punic) was Founded by Semetic white Phoenicians. However intermarraige produced A large Black population in carthage. Hannibal was likely black as well. and yes there was a White carthage. but this was founded by the Romans later ontop of the ruins of carthage.

quote:
"Yet among them, there is not another man Named Gisgo" Hannibal
Rumata
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 06:44 PM ET (US)     14 / 28       
Elijeh, the Nile valley and the estuary is fairly close to Israel and the Arabian peninsula - i.e the semitic area. In fact, in terms of travelling much closer than Central Africa. How about a shitload of Arab invaders and settlers spreading all over North Africa in the 8th century. Moving to the Nile valley is a smaller feat by comparison.
Aquiline noses of Afro-Caribbean owe a lot to cross-marrgiages I am sure, not to their African ancestry.
I am sure that black settlers inEgypt did contribute to its culture but it does not mean the backboneof the nation was not Semitic (see my comment about the language).
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 08:11 PM ET (US)     15 / 28       
True Rumata, but theres a large desert between Isreal, syria, mesopotamia, and Egypt. I mean a LARGE desert. and if a tribe of black peoples of neolitch time shad lived near the source of the nile, than dosn't logic dictate that the tribespeople woudl move south as the pressure of other tribes increase population density. And logically you would follow a river correct?

However untill the domestication of the horse and camel, travel across the deserts was general no possible.

Am i the only guy who believes that the Egyptians were black?

------------------

quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
Sean
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 09:56 PM ET (US)     16 / 28       
AHHHHH, your driving me NUTS with this thread, all I see is
Hydarnes: Elijeh, egypts are not black
Elijeh: No, their black
Hydarnes: Face it Elijeh, the egypts are not black!
Elijeh: Look, The egypts are black, trust me,
Hydarnes: Blah blah blah
Elijeh: Yackety shmackety
Hydarnes: Same ole, same ole
Elijeh: Same old, same old
and a couple posts like this one. This one is worse then the thred I started in the old forum that told how meny days untill RoR came out. (I drove quite a few people nuts with that thred)


/|\ ~~~~~~ Death to Greeks ~~~~~~
/_\ ~~~~~~ Long live Shang ~~~~~~

Yours truely Sean

Bolshi_Basci
Inactive
posted 03-01-99 06:12 AM ET (US)     17 / 28       
What a load of rubbish. If there are any ethnic differences indicated in the game I have never noticed in thousands of hours of playing/ It doesn't matter and this thread is inflammatory unnecessary and should never have been described as a must read. I seriously suggested the moderators but a lid on this before someone is deeply offended.
Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 09:08 AM ET (US)     18 / 28       
Well, Hy, I would tell you how to do it, but I'd rather not have to look at pics that "prove" some point that is moot, anyway. Tell you what. I'll let you in on the secret *IF* you promise not to post that graphic, OK? I know you are deeply religious, so I trust you not to read the next paragraph if you don't intend to heed my wishes.

1. Get yourself a webpage at one of the free servers. Geocities comes to mind, but there are tons of them.
2. Upload the picture to your site. (in .JPG for pictures, .GIF for computer images, *NEVER* in .BMP)
3. In your post, include the line


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/mysite/mypic.jpg" width=60 height=60>

The height and width parameters are just to limit the size of the graphic, as you will get major flamed if you fill the whole screen with your pic. And I would be the one responsible!

Remember, graphic responsibly!!!

Keep your stick on the ice.

P.S. You could have figured this out if you just View--Page Souce.

Chanchito
Inactive
posted 03-01-99 12:24 PM ET (US)     19 / 28       
There has been some research by various anthropologists using the survivng bone fragments in the tombs in Egypt. The results are as follows:

40 percent of the fragments were black. 60 percent were not. Of that 60 percent that were white, quite a few were black with white looking features. This research was done by measuring various skull, and other surviving bone fragments. So I guess you were both right. Eqypt was a center of trade in that part of the world for 4000 years or more. The white population was semetic or arab, so they had dark olive skin and dark hair.

Scarab
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 02:16 PM ET (US)     20 / 28       
Hydarnes,

I get the impression that you're interested in ancient Egypt. A lot of your questions can be answered at this website,that the good people at Northwestern have put together.

www.library.nwu.edu/class/history/B94/


I personaly have to side with whoever said that they (egyptians) were blue.

[This message has been edited by Scarab (edited 03-02-99).]

Sin ahhe eriba
Inactive
posted 03-01-99 02:19 PM ET (US)     21 / 28       
This is getting a little heated! Some suggestions. The classic account of the Black Egyptian argument is Martin Bernal's Black Athena. However see the critique in Black Athena Revisited by Mary Lefkowicz.

I believe Eqypt was a racially mixed society, with black african elements increasing on the upper Nile as you move into Nubia. We do have many skeletal remains of common people too. It isn't just a case of pharaoh burials.

Here is a question. Carthage was a Phoenician colony....and I don't think anyone is arguing the Phoenician were black. Nor do I know of any compelling evidence that the inhabitants of the north african coast were significantly different than the berber populations present in the region today.

armagedn
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 02:23 PM ET (US)     22 / 28       
Hydarnes, as you stated this same argument almost verbatim in the original thread, what the hell is the purpose of this thread? It has absolutely no merit whatsoever.

And Elijeh - as you point out, Carthage was originally founded by Phoenicians. Many Mediterranean peoples founded settlements along the northern coast of Africa, bringing their own cultures w/ them. Some survived, many did not. Intermarriage/inter-breeding w/ the indigenous populations was inevitable, but was probably no more prevalent then than it is today. Thus, while it is conceivable that Hannibal was "black," it is far more likely that he was of direct Phoenician descent.

One of the problems inherent in "revisionist" thinking is that it often takes the stand that what "could have been" is what actually WAS. Egypt, for instance, was a melding of proto-Grecian, Semitic, and northern african peoples (and many, many early nations traveled through the region, due to its trade value). It certainly was NOT "all black."

What I find most offensive is that arguing against claims that "Egyptians WERE black" will undoubtedly get you labelled a "Eurocentric racist," or some such nonsense. For my own part, I believe that if "black" African people were as dominant in the culture as you maintain, then records to that effect (pottery, tablatures, frescoes, etc.) would reflect this.

Although, as you point out, blacks & whites can have differing facial features, I find the lack of the more common "negroid" features in the majority of these historical records to be a pretty clear picture of the make-up of the Egyptian populace. To indicate that their own records were somehow inaccurate is revisionist thinking, imho.

(Still, for further clarification, my guess is that Carthaginians and Egyptians were a lot closer in appearance to Moammar Qaddafi than to Bill Clinton!)

If I have mis-represented your argument, I apologize.

[This message has been edited by armagedn (edited 03-01-99).]

[This message has been edited by armagedn (edited 03-01-99).]

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 04:37 PM ET (US)     23 / 28       
Elijeh, when I say: "black features" I mean “Nose, hair, and mouth structures as well as skin complexion, that would clearly classify an individual as non asiatic, non caucasian, and non Indian. There is no riddle in this. Each should be proud of who they are, because God made every man equal in His eyes.

I'm not trying to offend you Elijeh but, it would be really funny trying to hear you convince all the archeologists, that egyptians were black. you state that Akhenaten(sp?) was black right??? Well, I can prove by 3 things that he WASN’T black: First of all, his father Amenhotep III wasn’t black (I have proof of it), 2’d His mother Queen Tiy was NOT black at all. I can prove it to, here it goes: I have a painting of her, based on her portraits by an archeologist ( I scanned her picture, but I was not able to paste it on the forums. can you help me with pasting, from a scanned picture on my computer??) And I also have a quote from a book that states>>: “She is represented as having “light hair, blue eyes, and Rosy cheeks.” And I have many more proofs. 3rd we have portraits of Akhenaten(sp?) drawn by the Egyptians themselves. The more you keep stating that certain people were “black”, and they weren’t,(Akhenaten(sp?), Tiy, Nefertiti,…etc…) the more your case lacks credibility. Please don’t just state “…strawman……was black”, and that’s it. Document your position! And yes elijeh you are the ONLY person that THINKS egyptians were black.

P.S. here is the caption under her picture. "This modern painting is based on the ancient sculptured portraits of the Queen. It is the work of Mrs. winifred Brunton, whose archaeological knowledge and artistic skill have recreated for us in this manner many of the outstanding personalities of ancient Egypt. (courtesy of Mrs. Percy Newberry)"

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 03-01-99).]

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 03-01-99).]

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 04:50 PM ET (US)     24 / 28       
A few posts back, I told you how to do it using your own webpage, but it occurred to me that you could just cite it as a link that people could go to if desired, or maybe you could open up a "What was the ethnic composition of ancient Egypt?" forum on your own website. With the right search keywords, you would certainly get many more people responding to it, possibly several professors or archaeologists. You could give us all a heads-up when something particularly interesting surfaced in the forum.

I'm not trying to chase you away, but this isn't really a forum of anthropologists (or am I on the wrong site???), so you are really only getting unqualified opinions anyway.

Keep your stick on the ice.

Shang_Rulz
Inactive
posted 03-02-99 05:35 PM ET (US)     25 / 28       
Hey you know i thought that this was an AoE forum not a class on history of acient Africa and who really cares it's not like you can get 100 billion dollars just for figuring out that the Egyptians were Black,Blue,White,Green,Purple, yada yada yada

i don't even know why you put this post hear you can just e-mail each other with out taking up loading time and save people from reading this

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 06:48 PM ET (US)     26 / 28       
shang_rulz: if ya don't wanan read it then go away. not like i'm tellign you to read this.

Now onward to my arguments.
As i have said Pharoh ahknaten was black, Nerfertia was black, and tiy was black. My arguments are spawned from the fact that badda-bing badda-boom, i have pictues(in a book) of these peoples statues and portraits. Ahknatan looks black. Tiy looks black. also what about Amenemhet ! founder of the XII dynasty. He' was BON of a nubian women(nubians= blacks)

and to further strengthen my claim: i checked out a book that has alot of color illustrations/pictures. in a large percentage of the pictures the skin color of the egyptians was DARK. very dark. almost black dark. now yes there were some nice white people there too, but hey, so what, i said Egypt started out predominatly black, stayed predominatly black in upper egypt, while lower egypt became a mish mash of strange mixxes from variuos peoples.

Now comapre African culture, both Tribal, and egyptian. they contain the same things. Albiet altered a minor deal from group to group. and the egyptian Ka, isreminiscent of other african tribal cultures vital force.

Therefore even if the egyptians were white, they were most definatly African. and lets leave it at that.

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 06:53 PM ET (US)     27 / 28       
Hey, Eli, my son has that book, too, but he colored everyone green and orange. ;-)

Keep your stick on the ice.

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 09:31 PM ET (US)     28 / 28       
LoL which book thorfinn?

Yo, hydranes, don't go commit suicede or nuthing. The people at this forum can be total asses. but then again you can be VERY annoying. Chill with this, and go check out "great civilazations of ancient africa" by lester brooks, from New Canaan publishing. Thats my source.

Hydranes, you have not once qouted any of your sources. Please qoute them, and use logic.

Heres my theory of egypt:
Paleo-neolithic egyptians, were black, as they had most likely traveled up downstream of the nile. The semetic peoples of Mesopotamia, Syria, and the rest of the middle east, were seperated from egypt by deserts, and without the Camel, or horse being domisticated, they can't travel across the desert.

sure some semetics may hav foudn their way to the delta, where they were Reviled, or revered as gods/goddess orspokesmen for those gods. Or they were just plain out killed.

Now as the camel, horse, and whatnot are domsesticated, and as sea travel becomes more popular,(time frameof 1700 B.C.) Semetic travelers and invaders(hyksosi) make their home in the delta. now through inbreeding and whatnot, the population of the delta becomes more diversified.

the Upper nile, likely out of reach of semetic traders, being reached by egyptian middle men, stayed largely black. This population increased, and aparantly something good was turnign up in upper egypt, as Thebes traditional seat of power was located there.

there. Simple, no?

------------------

quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
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