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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » For Xevioso, and others ( a branch from "what is the religion of agers?"
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Topic Subject:For Xevioso, and others ( a branch from "what is the religion of agers?"
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hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 06:52 PM ET (US)         
I am a Christian and very, very thankful that I know about God!!!

How did the world come about Xevioso??? Do you believe in the "BIG BANG" theory? Or have you thought up some other phenomenon(sp?). You use earthly things to explain God, which there is no possible way that you can! I think you should read A post by Pericles! You state your A devout Atheist, so how do you believe the world came about???? BY CHANCE??? or.....? For your information The Bible does not contradict itself, you just don't have a open perspective, and so you think it's contradicting itself, but Atheism REALLY contradicts itself really, really badly!!! it has no foundation to build on!!!

Do you think there was a big soup that flooded the earth or what?? It's been proven that even if there was a sea of biological soup(made up of amino acids) filling the whole world 1& 1/2 miles deep, for at least 10thousand years(I think it's more, but I'll keep safe) there still could be no spark of life. Much less, a complete living cell with all its complexity comparable to the city of New York.

Scientists agree about the overwhelming impossibility of such a micro organism coming about by chance. So in order to make it appear that such a thing did occur, they say “Well, give it million upon millions of years, and then it could happen.” This hypothesis based on no known facts is totally unscientific.

How do you think all these planets are in perfect orbit?? because they just work by chance?? NO because there’s a God. You also state that God made it so we couldn't pay for our sins, but God didn't make that rule, it was Adam and Eve that sinned, that made that happen NOT God! When God made man and placed him in this ordered creation, he was an unfallen perfect being. Than you could say "why did God let Adam and Eve sin so all this shame could come upon us" right? Because God created intelligent beings, not robots, and gave him the power of choice, to choose between right and wrong!

God does not force us to do his will. He wants us to obey out of love not force. That's why it says "If ye love me keep my commandments" John 14:15. Forced obedience has to exist only when man is in a fallen state, as this world is now, that’s why the Israelites had to defend themselves from their enemies, and he has also made provision for law enforcement while in this world of sin “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.” Romans 13:1.

Sorry I have to quote scripture to you, but it is the only authoritative and reliable source to answer all our questions about origins or the nature of ultimate reality. It is the oldest known historical source, and offers the only most believable explanation about how all things came about.

You need to study it as for your life. Other wise all you’ll have is this little life. The Scripture says in 1John 5:7 “He that hath the Son hath life: he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” John 11: 25 “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” And verse 26 says: “ And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” But if u reject him you will die and will never live again. For no man nor skeptic can conquer death. The Great life giver states “I am he that liveth and was dead: and, behold, I am alive forever more, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” Oh YES you may be sure that I’m trying to make a believer out of you, but only the spirit of the living God can give you that conviction.

There is an empty tomb in Jerusalem, and he who rose said “I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.” John 14:3. But “The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” Romans 6:23. If you believe in Him…he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” Romans 8:11. If u reject him, then “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” Hebrews 10:26b, 27.

Furthermore, Hebrews 9:27 says: “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” And once the judgment is over, those who have rejected Christ, the unbelieving “…shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” The second death is GOOD BYE to life FOREVER and ever more. But for those who believe “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” Revelation 21:4. And in that glorious holy city (of which the wicked cities of this world are satan’s countefeit) “there shall be no night there,; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light :and they shall reign FOR EVER and EVER.” Revelation 22:5.

If you would like to know more I am more than willing to show you what the scripture sayeth(sp?). In conclusion “all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord ENDURETH FOR EVER. And this is the word by which the gospel (Good news about the kingdom of God) is preached unto you.” 1Peter 1:24,25.

May you find God, whom you CAN find if you will search for him with ALL your heart. See Jeremiah 29:13. 1 John 4:8 says: “He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is Love.” Amen!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 03-02-99).]

AuthorReplies:
Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 09:43 AM ET (US)     26 / 34       
Im not going to be able to read this whole post,but here is my thoughts:

Chritianity:
Ok,so this atom sized piece of energy exploded to make a universe,well HOW IN THE WORLD DID IT GET THERE!
It is a miracle that there is a 1/(largest number you can think of) of an atom cus HOW DID IT GET THERE? You can keep going back and back and back on saying how that get there.

And the bible is a large book,do you think such a large book would be writin by anyone or any group who knew how to write.

The 22 year and 24 year,its kinda,well,sorda a bit HARD to convert some hebrew words and there is always the human mistake called the typo.

And have you ever heard of the bible codes? How can such large phrases fit into verses and repeat,and repeat without the help of somthing,of course you can say aliens, but there is always God.And personally I dont believe in aliens though u probubly do. And if there are aliens they must be pretty far away.But ya never know.

The others:

Ok,I just said the atom thing,and we all wonder "How did God get there then?"Now I can say that if there is a higher power I bet he could understand how it got there.

Scarab
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 09:46 AM ET (US)     27 / 34       
Now I understand!

42

uhh....what was the question?

[This message has been edited by Scarab (edited 03-02-99).]

Nineveh
Inactive
posted 03-02-99 05:15 PM ET (US)     28 / 34       
Damn! I always wanted to say this!

Hydarnes, what's it like to be a pastor's son/religious geek? I've always wondered what kind of intense parental conditioning it takes to instill such blind faith in people. What ever happened to questioning things, man? Be a real teenager, start ripping things down instead of building walls around yourself!

Ok, you constantly refer to the Bible as the perfect reference. Not being specific, you say, "Point A is true because the bible says so, and the Bible is true."

There's the catch! Many of us don't think that the Bible is a credible reference-- in fact, I think it's a grand load of crap. Think about the mass of physical phenomena that happens it that damn thing! How come their are no other references to this stuff? Did these thing only happen so they could be written down?

Hydarnes, you base your religious philosophy on the truth of one book: The Bible. We atheists do not acknowledge the Bible to be and thus don't give a damn if "I am more than willing to show you what the scripture sayeth".

You can't prove anything without citing the bible. WE can't convince you because you can fall back on the bible. The 2 sides can never, ever, meet, alright?!

When I was born I was a fairly blank slate. I did not believe in god. Then my mother started bringing me to church. The people at church told me about God so I thought, 'oh, there is a being called god'.

Then I got older and started wondering what proof they had of God. I started objectively analyzing the source.

I concluded there was no God.


This was my own opinion, hatched from my own mind, and I respect that opinion a thousand times more than yours.

****

Now, start answering these questions, anyone who is 'pro-God'.

1. You are a follower of religion ____. So, you firmly believe that all Mormons/Jews/Hindus/Buddhists/Christian Scientists/Muslims etc are wrong? That you and your religion are the sole correct one? But, every religious follower believes that! How did they learn to think that way? The same way you did! What does this prove...
(If you can't tell, I'm sorry, but I hope most people see the irony here)

2.The odds of the right molecules coming together to start life are extremely rare. You explain this with God. What creates God? What creats the entity that created God? What is the root of existence and how did it come into being?

3. This isn't a question, but a statement:
"It's been proven that even if there was a sea of biological soup(made up of amino acids) filling the whole world 1& 1/2 miles deep, for at least 10thousand years...there still could be no spark of life."

Uh, yeah, that's because the earth has been around 4 billion years, and ten thousand vs 4 billion is NOTHING!

4. Ok, the first man ever to walk the earth sinned. What the hell does that have to do with me? If I 'sin' it's because I want to! If other sin it is cuz they want to!

What sort of fool tries to explain human nature (read: out tendencies toward bad things) with Adam? Why do people do bad things? To gain!

Example: Today I made fun of someone who asked me to help them do some really easy math that I did 5 years ago.

I did this to feel superior. I felt superior. Then I helped them.

Example: Today I killed someone and took their money.

I wanted the money. I was in a bad mood. They were vulnerable.

What the heck does this have to do with Adam sinning?

5. Perfection: God makes things perfect? That's funny, didn't Hitler kill millions of Jews? Don't we have wars every day? We have car accidents. We have diseases. We have broken hearts. Why? Why does God not change these things? Why isn't everybody happy? If god wants us all to believe in him, why doesn't he make us? He did create us, right? Why is everything flawed?

Done for now.

Note: All these thoughts I came up with just now. None of them were programmed into me by my 'elders' on how to respond when asked to prove religion. I know many people who go to Sunday School and who gladly argue with me about God.
At first I thought, 'wow these people are smart to come up with all these reasons, I can barely counter them', then I realized they had be taught how to counter my kind with these arguements.

Note to Jehu: As far as I can tell you are the only pro-god person in this thread who is my 'friend'... so if you skipped this thread just increment the "Affection I have for Nineveh meter" about 20 points negative.

------------------
-Nineveh, "Minister for Compy Equality"
ICQ 16407576

Xevioso
Inactive
posted 03-02-99 07:14 PM ET (US)     29 / 34       
Well, Hydarnes has posted another large letter, so for those of you who are reading this thread attentively I'll try to answer most of his claims. Bear with me.

1)
Hydarnes, you seen to have some sort of misconception of science. Science is tentative; that it, it does not claim to provide "the answer." It gives the answer to the best of our knowledge. It is subject to discounting evidence.

Evolution is a theory, but not a "guess" as many Christians like to think. It is subject to the evidence, and there is considerable eveidence for evolution that I won't go into, although I'm happy to point you to www.talkorigins.com to answer your questions.

The difference between science and religion is that religion is not TESTABLE. It is not subject to the evidence. No matter what the evidence, if you claim to have the answer right from the start than any evidence is put aside until someone can figure out. To a Christian who believes there can never be evidence against God.

The scientist finds the evidence and writes a book; Christians have the book and must find evidence to fit it. This is foolish.

My belifes are tentative. I do not claim to have the answer, only the best one proposed so far. I won't get into an argument with you over the specifics of cosmology, genetics, deluvian geology, anthropology, paleontology, physics, or any of the other areas creationists assault with their closeminded reading of Genesis. If you have genuine questions about what scientists say about life, then go to the talkorigins site for answers. It is fruitless to debate such an issue here because of the time needed and the minutae of information one must research to come up with adequate answers. I have debated creationists on stage and on the radio, and a great deal of time has to go into preparing an adequate defense because of the nature of the debate. So I pass.

2)
Hydarnes, you have, for the third time, failed to read my comments regarding chance. You said that evolutionists speak as if the world came about through chance, and this is as if a dictionary appeared out of random letters.

Again, dictionaries don't tend to form out of paper and letters; they need people. But snowflakes, heavy atoms, and yes, even the molecules necessary for life tend to form from a state of disorder. Molecules are shaped a certain way so molecules will attract some and attach themselves (ala ice molecules) and repel others that don't fit. This is the nature of molecules.

If you posit back to the beginning, I do not know what "caused" the big bang, nor if there was one; perhaps the Big Bang is one of many that happened; it could be the result of a black hole in another universe. Who knows, at that point it is just a guess. But as I said before, if the Universe is a complex being that required a designer, who designed the infinitely complex God?

3)
I have already provided two contradictions for your amusement in the Bible. Please look both of them up. 2 Chron 22v2 and 2 Kings 8:26 contradict each other, particularly in the KJV.

Rom 3:10 says that no one is righteous, while Job and Noah were both righteous before God.

And remember Hydarnes, all I have to do is find ONE contradiction for your whole argument to come crashing down about the infallibility of scripture. Just one. And it will do you no good to claim it's a typo...we don't have the originals in most cases, so any such claim would be an assumption, and you read from the KJV and the NIV on Sunday, not the Septuagint. The KJV is the Bible just as the NIV is. If there is an error there than you are lost.

4)
The book of Job...what an odd choice to show the majesty of God. God had a bet with Satan as to the loyalty of Job. So God proceeds to allow Satan to visit every evil known to man upon Job, whos's wife and children are killed, his land destroyed, and his own body wracked with disease.

All so God could tell Satan, "A-HA! TOLD YOU SO!"

What a beast. And I should look upon his majesty and kneel before this creature? I should open my heart to his love and kindness, when he treats his MOST DEVOTED FOLLOWER this way?

Stop and think before you answer. You are standing at the edge of a precipice.

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 07:30 PM ET (US)     30 / 34       
Hmm....someowher ein the bible god says he is a jealous god. So then god does have faults correct? but i stilll love''im/it/her/she/whattever

Nineveh i aint yer friend? awwww ;|

armagedn
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 07:43 PM ET (US)     31 / 34       
Xevo-

Once again, you have put forth a sound, cohesive, and convincing argument. You express your thoughts, theories, and evidence in a direct and effective manner. And all I can say is... why bother?

Should you give up the effort? GOD FORBID! Still, it's just gotta be pretty frustrating to have to repeat yourself and your positions over and over when he hears only what he chooses to, and "counters" w/ the same highly dubious reference manual again and again... I can almost hear your bone-weary sighs from here.

Still-
Fight the good fight! (And don't forget to wear a helmet and goggles.)

Uhm... where's the can in this dump?

[This message has been edited by armagedn (edited 03-02-99).]

armagedn
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 07:43 PM ET (US)     32 / 34       
Xev-
Cherub Desert R
Clubman
posted 03-02-99 11:37 PM ET (US)     33 / 34       
remember,after Job had dealed with going through hell on earth(Forgive the expression ),he was given more than he had prevoiusly,i cant remember the exact amout though,like double or quaddruple
kibi
Inactive
posted 03-04-99 11:09 AM ET (US)     34 / 34       
i have not intently read this thread, but have acquired the debate by skimming most of the thread. the debate is whether Christianity is true or a mere collection of scattered parchments and accounts that those who cannot survive without some backing blindly appropriate. i am a Christian, and side with the ideal of Christianity. i will not and cannot attempt to convert those who disagree with me, but will simply provide my views and trust God will do His will in this situation. no one will understand the true meaning of what i am about to degree unless they are among the true elect, which is a different subject altogether. if someone wishes to understand the process of the elect, i will submit a subsequent post. i will probably be refuted and scorned, but it do me no harm.
i briefly viewed the post commenting on God's jealousy and will clarify it. God is a jealous God, and He demands to ascend to the pinnacle of our lives. His love is so great for us, his will not tolerate something of earthly value to rob us of the fullest experience on earth. this jealousy is comparable to our human jealousy. the Bible is based on morals, and actions within the functions of these moral are not sin. this may seem contradictory, but is not because motives and desires play a large part in God's determining of whether is sin is a sin.
for example, u catch your wife in an adulterous situation with another man. u have every right to be jealous that another man is stealing from one of the most precious treasures u possess on earth. in the same sense, God cannot accept other devices which blot Him from the pinnacle of our lives. i am only 18, and by no means can fully answer all of the questions of Christianity, but will do my best to do so. if i do not have the answer, i will honestly admit it and search for it earnestly. any religion takes an incredible amount of faith to believe in, so i am proud of my faith.
i just recalled the mention of the holocaust, and the main issue that needs addressing is the ideal of the inward sinfulness of man. man in himself is full of evil and can never hope to become righteous in his own power. this fact hurts me, i am human too. since the fall of Adam, God has given people the greatest expression of His love, absolute freedom of choice. it pains Him to view some of or foolish choices, but He allows these things to happen to show us the recipocations of our actions. perhaps God allowed hitler to make this awful choice for himself. also, a basic fact of the sinful earth is that sin will always be prevalent. punishment be be levied for this sin. God's ways are not our ways, and sometimes innocent(still sinners, but not guilty of the accused crime) must be vessel of the wrath of God on humanity. the simple fact that they once sinned nominates them for such a postition, but God in His infinite mercy allow them to continue living.
i hope this helps clarify the situation. however, the bottom line is that if you believe something long enough, even a lie, it will become the truth to you. that saying will probably be reflected at us, but it is the truth.

jehu, i am glad to see u as a Christian. i am encourage that another believer plays aoe/ror. please keep posting.

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