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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Egypt has the best CA in the Game (revisited)
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Topic Subject:Egypt has the best CA in the Game (revisited)
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hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 04:39 PM ET (US)         
since my topic mysteriasly(sp?) disapeard I guess I'll have to post it again here it is:


Ok, I know this can be a pretty nasty debate on who has the best CA: Egypt, Hittite, or Assyrian. Now it will be a debate on who has the best ca, but there's no doubt that Egypt has the ultimate. But I wanna prove also that Egypt has the Best CA. First of all what r u gunna make with Hittite??? Cats of course!! (u would be dum if you don't) Cats and seige workshops both evaperate your wood which criples your CA production bigtime. Egypt can invest almost all their wood for CA. Now I know what your gunna say YES "the hittite make Cats to destroy the Egyptian CA's, so taht's why the hittite don't even need to make CA's" but you forget Egypt has the best Chariots/Scythe in the game, so while you make CA's you make chariots(u would be really moronic if you didn't make Chariots while u make your CA's) oops! and 1 more thing, yes it is true the Assyrian will attack with CA pretty early but they will lose in the long run. And yes they can attack u before you even have your CA's, but if you know how to play egypt u won't let that happen, you'll have Slingers, for their early CA attack. I'll be happy to hear your opinions

AuthorReplies:
VagrantKnight
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 05:18 PM ET (US)     1 / 34       
Hi Hardynes

Before I screwed up your original thread you received a number of replies the effect of which was that the extra HPS for Egyptian CAs were to be discounted because they were only of real value in fights with other CAs and because there were many better counters to CAs (than other CAs).

However it seems to me that the extra HPs are valuable any time that the CA's meet opposition especially by the counters that were mentioned. IMHO the ability to survive (and keep firing)longer is right up there with enhanced RoF and the attack bonus of the Assy and Hittite. I don't know how anyone could rank them except in very specific factual situations.

------------------
Vagrant Knight

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 06:57 PM ET (US)     2 / 34       
Someone posted a reply in the other post before this one (the one that disappeard) was saying something like: Egypt can counter hittite everyway. I totally agree with him what ever he said I didn't look at your name so I agree with you whoever you are Please post it again ok so I can read it again
Potejon
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 07:24 PM ET (US)     3 / 34       
Just had to reply, egypt ca's don't rule, any comps will rip em.
I had was confident in my ca's I was egypt and I was gonna rule this minoan player, I mean 33hp is alot, nope he won every time I had to make more as fought, I was smart enuff to build ST's so I held him of to my phoe teammate came with his eles, mostly applies to comps though but think of it, hittite ca's are just very fast-moving-strong comps, never thought of that before now but they are way more expensive then comps so comps should win.
When it comes to assy I dunno you could ask maimin_matty think he should know but I dunno.

------------------

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 08:51 PM ET (US)     4 / 34       
Well, sorry, but egyptian CAs just arnt useful enough. Assy CAs will get more shots off fast, meaning more damage, while hittite will attack at the same time, but with much mor damage. Now when CAs fight other units, the HPs is useful, BUT only if the other unit is a RANGED unit. Melee units need to be killed BEFORE they close to melee range. Hoplites, especially Macedonian Hoplites, need to be killd before they close to strikign distance. Ask emly_snow, shell tell ya once 21 attack hoplites get close to Ca those CA are wasted. Also for villager killign fast firing or more damaging CA are much better. not to mention Assyrian and Hittites bonus extend unto ALL Archer range units. So in Iron they'll whup egypt anyhow.
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-25-99 10:42 PM ET (US)     5 / 34       
I don't care about your Hittite assyrian Ca's My ca's will shred yours, And I already posted why Egypt has the best. Elijeh, I think u should read my first post again You state that the hittite r better because they'll get more shots off fast, But what do u do if Egypt sends it's chariots ???? You have no portection(sp?) against our chariots, Atleast Egypt has portection vs hand to hand units and missle fire (Cats too). You also state that u have an attrabute for all your archery, YES u do, but Egypt has an attrabute for their Chariots/scythe. My scythe will shred all the archers that u make in Iron (except HHa,but we'll shred everything u have WAY before you get them). If the enemy sends chariots, Your Ca have no pertection.


one little stupid thing (it's true tho) The CA lookes purely egyptian

Stooge_Farsan
Inactive
posted 02-26-99 04:51 AM ET (US)     6 / 34       
Though it is situation depended or what purpose you use those CAs, but I would say Hittite and Assy CAs with their attack bonus make them better villager hunter and priest killer, therefore I would rank them beofre Egytian, espcially the hittite one becasue it has iron upgrades too.

But of course, all have their own opinions, and you post this question for everyone to say what they think, right ?

Ender
Guest
posted 02-26-99 06:57 AM ET (US)     7 / 34       
Hydarnes it really does depend on what they are being used for. In an all out chariot archer war yes they are the strongest. But what if you are facing a yamato cav rush, 10 yamato cav are going to give you more headaches than the hittite or assy chariot archers. Same thing with stone throwers and scythe chariots, the extra damage in large groups is just plain more important than the extra hit points against things that hurt you fast. The key against these things is killing them fast, if they reach you you'll die regardless.
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 10:59 AM ET (US)     8 / 34       
I don't think any of you even read my first post when u make your conglusion(sp?). I already stated why egypt has the best (because the Hittite our going to be spending your money on cats...etc...). And yes facing a cav attack egypt will stand out the longest(I tested that an egyptian ca will inflict more on a cav than a hittite/assyrian CA will before he dies). YOu know what doesn't make any sense is that u guys forget that the egyptian ca will last LONGER TO INFLICT MORE. what are tho's meelee +1 attack on every arrow if the egyptian will just last 33% longer, to fire more times, and just make up for all the attack that they don't inflict on every arrow.

And Yes I'm talking from a Egyptian vs hittite/assyrian point of view. My point is there is nothing Hittite has that egypt can't counter.

P.S. sorry for all my terrible spelling

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 02-26-99).]

Nineveh
Inactive
posted 02-26-99 12:39 PM ET (US)     9 / 34       
"My point is there is nothing Hittite has that egypt can't counter."

ROTFL!! Good one Hyd!

Egy can counter Hittite as long as they make only one type of unit...
UNLESS, the Hittite makes a wonder. Egyptian cant take down a wonder to save thieir lives.

I'm not even going to get into the fact that Hittite can use all sorts of great combos (SC/HA/Cats etcs....) but explain to me how Egypt can take down a wonder.

VagrantKnight
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 12:40 PM ET (US)     10 / 34       
It takes two shots for a ST to kill a fully Bronze upgraded Assyrian or Hittite CA even with Nobility. It takes 3 shots for an ST to kill a fully upgraded Egyptian CA even without Nobility.

The extra shot takes 5 seconds during which the CA will (1) get off 2 or 3 shots, (2) have time (at 2.0 speed) to close to within the ST's minimum range, or (3) have time to maneuver out of range of the ST. Similar analyses can be done for all the other CA counters.

The Hittite and Assyrian CAs are better in unopposed villager raiding. The Egyptian CA is better in all other situations. Since Egypt doesn't get HA it will be using CAs in Iron where an absence of opposition is much less likely. The Egyptian bonus is therefore more valuable to the Egyptian than either of the other two bonuses.

Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 01:45 PM ET (US)     11 / 34       
VK, I am not sure that's the way to look at it. Check out the suggestions for dealing with CA in other threads. They are almost exclusively missile weapon units. Therefore, missile weapon units should be the ones that CA avoid.

Take the ST example you cite. When I hear the SPROING of the first ST, I have the same options. (I usually choose to flee and find some unprotected villagers.)

Against barracks or academy, hit and run. Since the goal is to always be out of range, the ability to inflict damage faster is more important. Extra HP do you no good there, as long as you stay out of range.

Against priests, HP means diddly, except that you will have to kill a tougher opponent if the conversion works.

Against villagers, unless they decide to bone you, the extra HP won't enter into the equation.

HP is not a factor in every situation, just those where the CA is being misused. At the point that CA are taking substantial damage, get something better designed into the fray and move those CA to where they are useful.

Bottom line, only skirmish with CA if you have made up your mind to delete them anyway in favor of better units. You may as well get something for them. If CA are your only defenders against the onslaught of missile units, you have done something wrong already.

Hope this helps shed a little light on what seems to be a very misunderstood unit.

Keep your stick on the ice.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 04:48 PM ET (US)     12 / 34       
Ok, ok Yes, the Hittite will win “standard” victory condition. but I’m talking about conquest. First of all the Hittite STs will be cut down by chariots, second of all hittite CAs will lose vs Egyptian, and third of all when they hit Iron Egyptian scythe will shred all the hittite Hcats. And hittite Ha are no match for scythe either (I learned that from many experiences with SC vs Ha). The only thing you could win with is with HHa. And our SC will shred your city before you even think of HHa. And also what if hittite runs out of gold? All they can make is CA(which die from egypts ca) and scythe(which die from egypts scythe). I could keep going on and on why egypt rules hittite.
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 04:58 PM ET (US)     13 / 34       
Hydranes: Scythe chariots take 2:30 second sto research. As well, they require meturllgy to be really effective. In a Macedonian case, what does HP do for egypt? Does it help them kill faster? shouldn't because your CA should be dancing away from those hops, who if they close to striking range WILL kill CA. And yes Ca vs. CA means egypt wins, big deal. What if its CA vs. Hoplites? Those hops are gonna kill ya a whole helluva lot faster than CA, and extra HP only prolong your agony. So HPs only count in cases in which you fighting rnaged units. not to mention i wouldn't take CA vs. comps any day of the week.

and again to your super units: My HA will still shred your army. simple.

Also whats this "hittite can't counter egypt" shit? I believe that hittite(assyrian) has STs, hoplites, and winstons/calvary. those unit sin conjunction with CA will shred anythign egypt throws out. Why? because Hissy(assy+hittite) will do more damage to your melee units which means your units will die befor emine, which means i'll still kill you.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-26-99 05:06 PM ET (US)     14 / 34       
I'm not saying that Hittite can't counter egypt, just saying that egypt is the best civ to use against hittite. I'm talking about egypt vs hittite not macedonian, boy, it's like you use the civ that suits you best at the time.

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 02-26-99).]

decimator04
Inactive
posted 02-26-99 05:31 PM ET (US)     15 / 34       
I am also a beliver in EGYPTIAN they are the best all around (best balanced) civ in RoR (MY OPINION ONLY DONT SHOOT ME DOWN BOUT IT)Egypt also has war eles that are an awesome combo. from my point with gold mining bonus and all U take a mass of els CA and SC into battle as a combo. i infact relize that EGYPT REMAINS! And also about the MACE hops THEY SUCK! way way way TO SLOW... and all u would need for mace was some priests with that extra range=more time for those blood sckers (NO offense) dont take it wrong i think that any civ that you are comfertable with and know just how they work the best for you.

Belive you me i have been way laided by that mace civ 2 times thats when i started using preists. no unit is unconvertable just maybe 2 priests for them to by only twice as resistant to conv. or 4 to get a quikie planxs well that is my 25 cents

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-27-99 00:34 AM ET (US)     16 / 34       
Decimator, if i'm mace, did ya look at the 6 Cavs i have waiting in the wings? Nope, the second i hear your woollooing, i'll spur my cavs forward to Decimate your priests. I've long said Mace is VERY convertable because its "power" units are slow. I learnt this when a few roman priests converted 5 of my armoured Elephants. ******* me off it did. Oh well.

Hydranes: in egypt vs. hittite, hittite should win every time IMHO. Why? Everything they have is better. Sure your Ca and chariots rock mine, but i've got camels to rock your chariots world baby. Also my higher damaging CA means that my supporting units(cavs, hops, or camels) will kill your "supporting" units. and that means now i dmage your CA and kill'em. egyptian CA are usefull, but by far, not the best CA.

quote:
First of all what r u gunna make with Hittite??? Cats of course!! (u would be dum if you don't) Cats and seige workshops both evaperate your wood which criples your CA production bigtime.

If i'm making Cats, not Stone throwers, then i won't be using CA. I'll be pumping HA. Then my 9 cat, and 16 HA army will smear anythign egypt has. Oh and slingers blow BTW, they can't kill CA before i'll kill 3-4 of your vills, which is the worth of 2 CA.

[This message has been edited by Elijeh (edited 02-28-99).]

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 11:40 AM ET (US)     17 / 34       
elijeh, your post doesn't even make sense.

Thanx decimater, I totally agree with u 100%

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 04:05 PM ET (US)     18 / 34       
Hydranes, explain to me how Egypt is better than Hittite? Hittite is the Iron superpower. Egypt is the Scythe/chariot Archer/priest Superstar. Egypt has only 3 super units, to hittites 5. WOW. Hittite also has a Robust Bronze miltary, that dosn't stagnat in one unit.

Assyrian is better than Egypt. Why? Horse Archers, Catapaults, and Hvy Cavs. also they have a speed advantage.

Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 04:05 PM ET (US)     19 / 34       
Hydranes, explain to me how Egypt is better than Hittite? Hittite is the Iron superpower. Egypt is the Scythe/chariot Archer/priest Superstar. Egypt has only 3 super units, to hittites 5. WOW. Hittite also has a Robust Bronze miltary, that dosn't stagnat in one unit.

Assyrian is better than Egypt. Why? Horse Archers, Catapaults, and Hvy Cavs. also they have a speed advantage.

------------------

quote:
And yet among them, there is not another man named Gisgo

ICQ 25428390
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 08:20 PM ET (US)     20 / 34       
I already told you why, in an earlier post. But let me ask u this, what can't egypt counter???

[This message has been edited by Hydarnes (edited 02-28-99).]

Sting
Clubman
posted 02-28-99 08:37 PM ET (US)     21 / 34       
a tool rush. a large group of hittite CAs and stone throwers. Minoan compys (Egypt HP bonus is nice and all, but compys totally rule out use of chariots (they will probably never reach the compys) and even egyptian CAs still die to massed minoan compies.

My minoan to your egypt anyday...sorry

Under_Siege
Inactive
posted 03-01-99 01:12 AM ET (US)     22 / 34       
I was the one who originally said that Egyptian is a good counter for Hittite. The reason I see this is because the units which Hittite needs to use are countered by Egyptian. In Bronze age the Egyptian units are either equal or better. The most important unit to Hittite is their CA, which will lose to egyptian ones in equal numbers. Hittite is weaker than Egyptian in Tool ( no slingers ), mid and late bronze ( their CA's and chariots are weaker compared to Egyptians ). In Early Bronze ( i.e. before the wheel is finished ) they are equal execpt for the war galley thing ( this is rarely of any great use, except on maps where there is tons of shallows ). Early Iron is the only time that Hittite is actually stronger ( due to horse archers and the Egyptians need to get scythes ). However this time frame is VERY limited. Then comes the time when Egyptain gets those scythes. These scythes roll over anything. Despite the fact the hydranes *thinks* that HHA kill scythes, he is wrong. Ive tried to stop scythes with HHA, and unless I have 50 it wont work. In ROR the scythe chariot is the GOD iron weapon. The classic cat/ha combo gets ripped apart by the scythes. Scythes are great at taking out vills as well.

Can Egypt take out a wonder? YES. Again scythes can do it unless the enemy has walled and ballista towered himself out the wazoo. If he has done that then you have lost not because of civ, but because of your play. Egypt also has the best priests in Iron, and these babies can wreck havoc.


As far as Macedonian killing off Egypt, I wholeheartdly agree. But this is not so fair because Macedonian can kill ANY slow civ. Perhaps when I perfect their strategy I shall post it. I will say that the start involves hoppers/compies/cav. I am still trying to decide if I can work St's into the equation. The Macedonian Bronze is UNEQUALLED from a pure military standpoint. No civ can stop their combos.


Now I like Both Egyptain and Macedonian. I feel that ES balanced them very well. Egyptian gets kickass CA's and Chariots, but they do not get phalanx or siege or HA or AE. Thusly they can not be considered a GOD civ. They have trouble against Ballista towers and helepolis. Properly played AE hurt them as well. Macedonian is given a VERY good bronze. However they have no speed bonus's and a weak iron.

Under_Siege Champion of the Hoplite and Scythe Chariot

Ender
Guest
posted 03-01-99 07:25 AM ET (US)     23 / 34       
actually a hittite armored elephant/chariot archer army is pretty hard for egypt to beat. Sure the priests will convert a couple, but every priest in range will die to the chariot archers. Armored elephants absolutely destroy regular elephants and scythe chariots. Also a hittite scythe chariot + horse archer army will beat an all egyptian scythe chariot archer, been there done that. I believe they are pretty even civs in iron, I certainly wouldn't say egypt is the counter to hittite, but they at least can win against hittite in iron.
hydarnes
Clubman
posted 03-01-99 10:05 AM ET (US)     24 / 34       
Under_seige, all I said was that u shouldn't even let them get to HHa. Scythe eat Ha
Under_Siege
Inactive
posted 03-01-99 12:59 PM ET (US)     25 / 34       
Perhaps I should call Egypt an equal to Hittite. I suppose its pretty hard to find a civ that is better than Hittie in Iron. But among the civs to play against Hittite in Iron, Egypt is the best. And a scythe,ha Hittite army will not stop a pure egyptian scythe army, as the egyptain can bypass the hittite scythes and go straight for the ha, since with their hitpoints they last long enough to get there. And ha are hideously expensive. I also mentioned earlier that an AE army properly played can beat Egypt, but this style army is very expensive. And if the Egyptian gets mayrtdom in time, The elephants will turn on their masters .
Also the Egyptian can use his scythes to kill off the ca, leaving the AE to be priest fodder. Overall in Iron Egypt is very hard to kill, but occaisonaly to weak on the offense.
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