posted 02-23-99 11:53 AM ET (US)
I think that Phoenician is the best civ becurse they got that advantage to get woods. You can get more buildings, farms, boats faster if you have a lot of wood. And you have almost everthing worthwhile uppgrades, good army+priest. I usually tool in 7-8 min, bronze 12-15 min, iron 19-22 min and have around 20 chariotarcher. I never have to be afraid of running out of wood. In teams I can build one more town beside my allied. Maybe Im wrong about Phoenician but this is how I think about the Phoenician.
Ender
Guest
posted 02-24-99 06:50 AM
ET (US)
3 / 13
on water maps I think pheonician is as good as shang with a good starting spot. With a bad starting spot shang is still better though. Shang has a better tool rush, phoenician is much better in iron.... on a water map! On a land map shang is probably just as good in iron.
Ender
Guest
posted 02-24-99 12:23 PM
ET (US)
5 / 13
easy solution to this, don't let the minoan get composite bowmen. Phoenician should tool faster and bronze faster while almost booming as well. Take the seas from them early, put them on the run. But yes Phoenicians have problems with helepolis so in iron minoan can take em out.
posted 02-24-99 01:14 PM
ET (US)
6 / 13
Shang are best, Phoe are 2nd best, the gap is smallest on wet maps. The reverse is only true where for whatever reason the water is crucial in late bronze / iron. Phoe and Shang both have the pick of units in bronze but Shang just gets them earlier and in greater numbers. In iron if the battle is on land the Shang can win with a SC / priest combination, whether he builds archers and cats or even ballistas is a matter of preference.
I take exception to the suggestion that the Phoe wood bonus is only worth ca. 1000 wood in the first 30 min. This would imply a normal wood consumption in the first 30 minutes of only 3000-4000? Are you sure, do you want to reconsider? How many composite bowmen does it take to stop 20 war elephants or EA. Come on talk sense. The Minoan needs to iron too and get heps. In which case I agree the Minoan wins in iron.
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-24-99 04:30 PM
ET (US)
9 / 13
this is what pisses me off about Phoen: Phoens as good as shang on water maps. WRONG! Phoen is the 2nd fastest civ on ALL MAPS. Why? Faster wood gathering means, more villager son food, and less on wood. Everybody thinks phoen is a Boom only civ. but its not. Phoen has a downright deadly econimic bonus, equivilent to Romans cheaper buildings, but since their bronze is better their better.
Also i feel that EA are a waste. Their expensive, and their just overpriced, oversized Composite bowmen. They make good guards for Villies, and are good if you suspect HA to harry your eles. but keep 4-8 CA for Priest killing. EA generally suck, HA/CA are better for all things except for Heles Killing
Ender
Guest
posted 02-25-99 06:55 AM
ET (US)
10 / 13
agreed, back up the elephants with chariot archers, for priest attacks, mix in some scythe chariots to beef up the force. I agree phoenician is fast on all settings, but if you take away the sea they fall further behind shang in strength.