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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Worst civ
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Topic Subject:Worst civ
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Peacemaker
Clubman
posted 02-16-99 03:18 PM ET (US)         
Which are the worst civs?


AuthorReplies:
Emowilli
Clubman
posted 02-18-99 08:43 PM ET (US)     26 / 48       
I definantly don't think Palmy is the worst civ. They can definantly get screwed with bad position but with good position they can rock. I've goten a lot better playing with them. If there is enough food around palmy can make just as many villers to start as other civs and have a super strong bronze econ.


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 01:15 AM ET (US)     27 / 48       
Oops my post got cut off !

What I was saying it that w/Choson you often can't afford to sit around playing sim city or you get a dead ally. Be sure to have several peons outside your camp towering resources/tower rushing and spreading rax's around for the longswordsmen hordes in iron.Don't be afraid to tool rush if it looks right.. and those rax's will be useful later. I just really messed up an egyptian in 3v3 random w/my cho tool rush.. axers/towers. It weakened me too, but not as much as it hurt him.

Emowilli IMO, Cho is better than you think, and Palmy is better than I said ,(ie not worst). I, too, do OK when I get Palmy, but many other players have no clue, so I thought they might be worst... everytime I pop up a Cho tower it is fun to see what it hits.

I still think Palmy belongs in the last tier w/Greece, Carth, Persia.. and boy do I hate to get Persia (even though I can hunt and fast bronze. I still hate em!)... neilkaz


hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 09:53 AM ET (US)     28 / 48       
Choson definitly!!!! choson is romes weaker sibling. choson priests are no match for egypts also what is choson gunna do in a bronze attack??? you have to get to Iron in order to have a good chance. choson towers are still no match for ROMES cheap cost. choson have no phalanx/centurion rome does. they don't have as good as seige as rome, they're not as good as rome in sea power... etc... choson


EEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGYYYYYYYYYPPPPPPPPTTTTTT RRRRRRRUUUUUUUULLLLLLLEEEEEEESSSSSSSS


neilkaz
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 11:33 AM ET (US)     29 / 48       
Hydarnes.. feel free to check out my post under the concurrent best civs thread ! There I rate Rome along with several other great civs, below Shang and Phoe while Choson is just above the last tier of civs which are Greek, Palmy, Carth, and Persia. Off course I'd much rather play Rome than Choson, because Rome has a better economy and many more options. I don't however, see Rome's phalanx/cents as relevant since who'd really make them anyway when you have Rome's swordsman ROF bonus and Choson LS/legion HP bonus? Choson priests are very cheap at 85 cost and way better than Rome's. I am not saying they are better than Egypt's 16 rangers, but Choson doesn't use much gold for legions and can really crank out priests.

Choson survives bronze w/walls and towers and some upgraded slingers if necessary. The key point is towers ! Even before you get artisanship your sentry towers have 9 range which due to the towers' effective extra 1 range means you can hit any ST firing at them. Due to any lag and the defence mechanisms of cav/cam towers tend to mess them up as they chase peons. I.E. it is hard to keep cav/cam after peons when they are getting hit with arrows and their defencive AI tells them to go attack that tower. Cho also can have priests in bronze ! They die to CA but walls w/a couple of towers keep CA out. Slingers w/stoneming and bronze shield(you need it anyway for rax) are quite effective vs CA's in bronze. I lost only 1 game really badly as Cho.. and it was in an expert 4v4 where I missed a corner wall tile and was greated by 15 CA's.Another 3v3 was lost when I sat on 3000 tone rather than towering my exposed ally near two of our enemies. I learned not to be too passive that game !... Cho is not a great civ but they aren't the worst ! .. neilkaz


MiC_Biodigestor
Inactive
posted 02-19-99 12:38 PM ET (US)     30 / 48       
I thought Yamato became a Sucky civ in RoR. They already had the worst Iron age and then you add Camels in the game... What's left for Yammy in RoR?? a scout rush?

Phil

Sting
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 01:53 PM ET (US)     31 / 48       
Yamato may be not as good as before, but they are not a last tier civ. Scout rush is only one tactic, but they have other things to do. First of all, be sure to research composite bowmen with yamato because you will need them for camels. If you flood with those cheap cavs and keep raiding the enemy you can break him down eventually. Until ppl start to use camels like they mean it, cavalry can still do some damage.
O_Captian
Inactive
posted 02-19-99 02:26 PM ET (US)     32 / 48       
I just got killed in a 3v3 random game getting yammy. I did take one civ out we help of a team mate and hindered the other, but enemy number 3 got scythes. I burned up all my gold. Game over. I lost w/ a 900 score. And I had more kills than losses, but if there is a scythe civ, then yammy is worthless. Sure 30 horse archers kick will kill scythes but the 100 I lost to continous scythes wave after wave, was to much.

In a long iron war game, yammy bites it big.

mrfixit
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 06:37 PM ET (US)     33 / 48       
Oh yea, forgot to point out that my comment that Palm was the worst is still accurate IMHO.

Yea I tooled with them at 5:40, with 4 vills!! Not much of an economy! I was playing a "tool-off" where the first one to tool won. I tried in a game once to tool with 8 (7:20 or so) but didn't bronze with them until 15:00 that sux man! hehehe

Breydel
Clubman
posted 02-19-99 09:42 PM ET (US)     34 / 48       
I think worst civ is personal. It depends on what your style is.

So for me, Persia is the worst. Lack of wheel and 3 wood upgrades really makes them very difficult to play.

As for Choson and Greek, I like playing with both these civs.

Under_Siege
Inactive
posted 02-21-99 05:27 PM ET (US)     35 / 48       
I do not understand people who do not think Choson suck. Of course I'm taking about RM games and not DM. So where are all RM games decided? Tool and bronze. And where does Choson blow more than every other civ? Thats right Bronze! And they pretty much suck in Iron too. Ok I suppose that you might be able to wall off to survive. But walls are not the end to winning, since there is too mnay damn ways to get around ( transports, st's, hoplites ) And once that wall falls YOU ARE DEAD! Only possible civ that is worse is Greek. Ever carthage gets camels. And in Iron I would take Greek over Choson. ( For RM purposes )

Let me show you what walls do. 10 ca's run up and hit your wall. This will *****me off. Then I will attack with st's and hoppers. If you attempt to use priests I will use my ca's. Bronze Towers only do 4 dmg, which will not stop the st's. PLEASE tell me how you can stop a Bronze attack. At least Carthage gets camels.

4TESq
Inactive
posted 02-21-99 09:21 PM ET (US)     36 / 48       
Yam definately ARE NOT the worst civ in RM-as for DM well i wouldnt know but i imagine they are pretty awful. They have one of the best tool rushes in the game so the fact that they are weak in iron doesnt even come into it- your opponent will be dead before you,he,she or it even sniff iron. Even if yam are fighting in iron they do have their uses in the form of a strong navy, good cataphracts for taking out siege, ha/hha for raiding economies and of course you could play "feeder" to your allies.
lshaul
Clubman
posted 02-21-99 09:40 PM ET (US)     37 / 48       
Cataphracts rule! "We're going to ride forever. You can't put horsemen in a cage." Hehe. Don't even think about it. Putting my cavs in a "cage" that is.
neilkaz
Clubman
posted 02-21-99 11:48 PM ET (US)     38 / 48       
Re: my poor much maligned Choson ! 1v1's are decided in tool bronze and I would not want Cho in a 1v1 ! However, many 3v3 go well into iron and then Cho can use its LS/Legion bonus combined w/cheap fully upgraded(if necc) priests and range 12 towers.

Re:Cho living thru bronze and stopping ST's, hoppers. For starters an ST horde isn't cheap to make unless you are Mace, so how many will attack in bronze ? Cho towers in bronze have 10 range and unlike all other civs there IS NO WAY bronze ST can hit them without RETURN FIRE ! The Cho hopefully if a big ST attack comes has something outside his base to attack ST, too.. ie a couple cav or a few Broadies. There is nothing wrong w/Cho making broadies for defence in late bronze since they will become power LSmen when he irons. Sure you can take down some towers, but you'll lose several 260 cost ST's doing it ! Clearly, if you have a substantial better econ than Cho you probably can take him in bronze, but this is true of most civ/combos.

I rate Cho in the second to last tier of civs. ie above the worst. The Cho legion horde he can produce from mid-iron on is absolutely devastating !.. neilkaz ..

ricktsu
Inactive
posted 02-22-99 00:59 AM ET (US)     39 / 48       
yea i put persia at teh bottom...i think the greeks arent too great but...at least they get academy units...they are fast w/ greece..cheap..alot cheaper then those damn eles...and at least they arent so vulnerable to priests...
Nineveh
Inactive
posted 02-22-99 11:47 AM ET (US)     40 / 48       
Choson... do the people bashing them ever play them?

First of all, in a team game a choson can hide for bronze age and be just fine. Why? Well, if your opponents are "smart" they will attack your ally (2v2). You simcity and iron. They are still beating on your ally in bronze and you are iron with legions. I have won FFAs with 3 hordes of Legions attacking three opponents simultaneously...I bet Choson iron can take any 2 bronze opponents easily.

Or they can gang up on you and try to break your defenses because they fear a choson iron (smart). Cheap priests convert enemy ST, or anything else that isn't a chariot. Sentry towers+ST tear CA who go suicidal on priests...chariots are broadsword bait.

Fully upgraded Char: 114 HP, 11 attack, 4 armor
Broad: 70 HP, 13 Attack, 5 armor.
Char deals 6 damage to broad per swat=12 attacks to kill
Broad deals 9 to chariots=13 swats to kill

Not bad, eh?

Cavalry obviously bite the big wololo.

Camels wololo and die to broads.

But realistically most Bronze Armys are Camels/CA/ST. If you can protect your Towers from ST then stopping them is not a huge problem. Like I already stated ST are a neccesity for anti-archer defense (CA), and broads do a nice job vs CA who dont keep running. Camels die to broads/towers/priests.


Basically if you can beat CA and ST in bronze you can live with Choson. Hardcore towering can bring you new lands, too...Just find those stone/gold piles and place 4 towers. Then in iron you totally stomp.

I think Cho towers are better than Roman because of the prospect of range 12 ballista towers. A zillion Sentry towers are still totally wasted (range 9 attack 4) in iron, whereas a Btower blanket puts down HA raids like nobodys business.

I'm a choson junkie, BTW, so of course I'm bias..
Won a FFA yesterday with 60 legions and 10 priests and 20 Btowers. I got hit with at least 25 mace AE (doh, no conversion) with 900 years left... I started martyring priests (had more queued up cuz I had hit the 100 pop) and converting AE...I got about 6. The AE kept stomping toward the wonder... Myvills started building a TCs in their way and anything else (all the while Btowers raining fire)... there were still 18 or so and only 15 tiles from my wonder.

Then the new priests popped out (3) and I got 3 new eles. It was beautiful as the legion horde hit those eles... They were still moving to the wonder and then there were 15 eles vs 60 legions. Eles were falling everywhere (already injured from Btowers). the timer kept ticking. I had 15 rax with 5 more legions queued... More legions kept piling in as a few more AE showed up. The last ele dropped. I typed '9'.

Choson power! Well, choson is waay more fun than greek/carth.

Ender
Guest
posted 02-22-99 12:24 PM ET (US)     41 / 48       
if your argument is based mostly on bronze age armies I'd point out that choson is better than greek in bronze, and probably are better than carthage in bronze. They are also pretty even with rome in bronze. My argument for persia is they are the worst civ in iron age easily. Thus my worst civs, greek, carthage, persia.

Choson goes up a level, they should be able to survive until bronze, stone throwers, improved bowmen, broadswordsman, cheap priests, cavalry, 10 range towers should be enough to survive. Improved bowmen are underated, if composite bowmen destroy chariot archers easily, which most people agree with, then improved bowmen with tower support should defend against them adequately. Stone throwers die to towers and cav, or broadswordsman, any other unit is broadswordsman/tower/priest bait. The biggest problem is not helping your allies enough, though a few choson towers in your allies base can help him a lot.

And longswordsman rule in early iron, they take out everything until large hordes of HA/Scythes hit the scene.

BaaL
Inactive
posted 02-22-99 01:07 PM ET (US)     42 / 48       
Ender wrote: My argument for persia is they are the worst civ in iron age easily.

How is Persia the worst civ in iron easily? They get fast dumbos, great remes, hha, sweet priests, cats w/engineering and alchemy, juggs, the guard tower, legions... Maybe not the best civ in iron, but i can think of a few civs that die horribly to them.

Plus, they have a fast tool/bronze if you want.

Ender
Guest
posted 02-23-99 07:19 AM ET (US)     43 / 48       
okay first off any civ with horse archers will beat persia in iron. Non-ballistics catapults, short range horse archers/towers and the worst economy in the game assures this. Also any civ that gets helepolis is better than persia since persia can't do much against them, again non-ballistic catapults just aren't going to do it, especially when you are building them with only 1 upgrade. Any civ with elephants and good priests will beat persia, since persia has more problems killing priests than any other civ probably, and fast elephants don't win battles against slow elephants, espeically when you are getting food for them without any upgrades.

As to the navy being good, it isn't, 1 wood upgrade = half as many ships = dead persian.

Lets take a look at persias iron for a second...

barracks- this is actually persias strength in my opinion, 3rd best legions in the game. Though you'll have fewer than phoenician so in practical terms they are the 4th best.

stable - fast elephants, these are nice but they still die to the same thing regular elephants die against and persia general makes fewer than another civ could, they also get the heavier cav but its useless without coinage. Basically average stables IMO and its supposed to be there strength.

Temple - okay priests, all techs, no coinage, no chariot archers to take out others priests, no good way to protect there own. Lots of civs with better temple.

Docks - great triremes, aweful wood cutting, expect to lose the seas against a good player, you just won't be able to build as fast as them, I'd say average docks.

Towers - short range guard towers, outranged by normal civs archers. These are posibly worse than yamato and minoans towers in iron, below average towers.

Siege - ballisticsless catapults, no helepolis, I'd say even civs with fully upgraded stone throwers are better. Poor siege.

Academy - none, worst in game obviously.

Archer range - short range composites, HA, elephant archers, average archer ranges, lack of coinage rears its ugly head again, you'll run out of gold fast if you go all out HA. I'd say average ranges at best.

Economy - easily worst in game, missing 2 wood upgrades, 2 farm upgrades and the wheel, not to mention coinage and siegecraft.

So basically they are below average in almost every catagory except there 2 best, where they are average, add in the crappy economy and you have the worst iron age civ in the game.

Tell me which civ you think they can beat in iron with even numbers of villagers and I'll tell you why I think your wrong.

FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 02-23-99 08:55 AM ET (US)     44 / 48       
Persia is still a good civ in DM though, however the only way to win with them is to rush with ele's in under 10 mins... (maybe less, dunno never look at the time when playing DM).

There great speed is excellant for rushes, and Persians get a pretty strong early Iron, since they can pop out about 5 ele's and rush them over to kill ... But then... priests... Persia has too many counter civs. Like Egypt will totally take them out with priests only

Sting
Clubman
posted 02-23-99 04:48 PM ET (US)     45 / 48       
I still think that greek and carth are the worst civs. They have an awful bronze, and once in iron carth eles are priest food. Their priests dont get astrology, so they are at a considerable disadvantage.

Both of these civs are gold dependant, as is persia. Greek iron is better than persia or carth iron, IMO, because of the full seige. But thats about all there is to greek iron, full seige. Carth is converted, persia is converted or dies of crappy econ as Ender pointed out.

I think persia stands a decent chance in bronze, but greek and carth are my picks for the worst civs.

hydarnes
Clubman
posted 02-23-99 07:59 PM ET (US)     46 / 48       
Yea yam is about 2to choson first of all they have no chance against Egypt. because first of all chariots eat cav (pretty hard against Yam tho) because rescorse(sp?) wise you'll have 3chariots vs 2cav and 3chariots win. Even tho with yam you'll have almost 3cav, that's why egypt has +33% hp Not to mention Camel riders to defend your chariots. And in Iron aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh Yam is terrible!!!!!!!! Scythe eat them!!!!!!!!!
Elijeh
Clubman
posted 02-23-99 10:53 PM ET (US)     47 / 48       
Hydranes: Scythe seat all HA. But Yam will have toosn of Ha ebfore you have any Scythes. Also the yam cvas are almsot as cheap as Camels. yam is still awasome...Oh and throw in Hoplites and you've got a kicking bronze.
Think before you post
Ender
Guest
posted 02-24-99 06:36 AM ET (US)     48 / 48       
the reason persia isn't the worst civ is they have a kick butt tool rush, and if played well they also have a nasty camel/cav rush.

The same is true for yamato, nasty scout rush, can still hit you hard with cav before your bronze, usually faster than others to iron, cheap horse archres means you can have 20 horse archers by the time most slow civs get to iron. Add in the fact that they have the best navy in the game and yamato isn't the worst.

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