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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Units and civilisations that should really be nerfed or buffed
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Topic Subject:Units and civilisations that should really be nerfed or buffed
SlyStalker
Clubman
posted 10-06-12 11:20 PM ET (US)         
if ensemble studios said that they were going to release a new AoE patch to equalise the civs and the units of the original AoE, i would say debuff/nerf Assyria and those cheap chariot archers. i mean, for 10 extra wood (chariots cost 40F, 60W and chariot archers cost 40F, 70W) you get: speed equal to cavalry units, a ranged attack outranging sentry towers and no drawbacks. thats pretty dang good. shouldn't archery units get less HP or something? and maybe equal or less range than towers? or maybe this is just the mentality of someone who has been assy ca rushed too many times. anyway, i think that the civ that should be buffed the most are the greeks. looking at their tech tree, i see so many units and techs blocked! they should at least be able to get broadswords! also, no-one uses centurions in a multiplayer game do they? the upgrade from phalanx to centurion is really expensive! what are your thoughts on which civs should be nerfed or buffed?

[This message has been edited by SlyStalker (edited 10-06-2012 @ 11:21 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
chab
Clubman
posted 10-07-12 07:28 AM ET (US)     1 / 5       
You should have a look here.
I tried to make a version of empires.dat that balances these various problems.
It's unfinished, but I think it's quite better than ES' version.

I tried to collect the best ideas that where made in different places in the forum.
I agree something must be done with chariot archers. I'll probably pick one or several of the solutions above
- higher cost
- less HP
- make it slower
- range reduced to 6 ?

Changes on siege weapons are most welcome, I've played with this mod and it's not bad.
A thing to fix is cavalry : very powerful in RM, useles in DM. Not easy to find a good compromise.

About greek, don't forget they have (one of) the best unit in the game : very powerful centurions that move faster than legions. Combined with their perfect siege weapon they are almost unbeatable. (+ good temple)
On the contrary, I removed engineering from their tech tree (and gave it to palmyra, poor guys really need it).
But some unit could be added anyway, like comp bowmen or elephant bowmen...
Why would you add broadsword ? I'm curious because (barracks) infantry is useless in RM, it gets ****ed up by cavalry (or bowmen) so easyly ! ... and is very expensive (many researches needed).
I don't think there is any reason to research broadsword if you cant upgrade to legion. Only romans and choson have good reasons to research legions.

If you have any precise ideas to improve balance in AoE don't hesitate to write it here
Thompsoncs
Clubman
posted 10-07-12 08:32 AM ET (US)     2 / 5       
I made my mod's counter-units system based on some books about ancient warfare. The role of cavalry is usually overestimated by people, because of things they read/seen about medieval knights.

In ancient armies, cavalry had skirmishing/scouting functions and were most useful for flanking and chasing. Cavalry usually had little chance fighting heavy infantry in a prolonged fight.

Thus you could decide to remove/decrease the cavalry vs infantry bonus and instead give cavalry more speed or a bonus vs artillery/archers. That would make infantry more worthwhile.
ephestion
Clubman
posted 10-07-12 09:05 AM ET (US)     3 / 5       
The patch already exists:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/ageofempiresrev/

Not finished but certainly started in that direction.

There are several more things to do in the patch one of them is to give stone throwers more range or equal to catapults.


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[This message has been edited by ephestion (edited 10-07-2012 @ 09:10 AM).]

PhatFish
Mr. Beta
posted 10-07-12 01:45 PM ET (US)     4 / 5       
HHA speed. When micro'ed well they are unstoppable.



SlyStalker
Clubman
posted 10-08-12 01:59 AM ET (US)     5 / 5       
chab: yes i totally agree with you about centurions. they are very strong... only if you can catch the enemy! academy units are really strong in a head-on battle, but most people would rather hit-and-run vs academy units because they cant keep up. kind of like the crusaders vs saladin's forces. the crusaders were tanks but they couldnt catch the swift horse archers. also, about barracks infantry, they should be more powerful! if you look at history, many a crucial battle has been won (or lost) by infantry. eg the battle of adrianople where barbarian hordes overwhelmed the roman legions by sheer numbers of infantrymen. ah yes, i do have some precise information on how i'd improve AoE. but alas, i do not know how to mod! so here are some ideas:
add 'spearman' unit: bad at combat but excels at fighting cavalry. in the past there have been a lot of spears used, so i dont see why ES didnt add more units with spears.
change to chariot archer: no armour, slightly less speed than other chariots and cavalry and only 6 range
buff swordsmen: swordsmen should have more HP (not armour). looking back in time these swordsmen probably would have trained hard, and this is why they should be fitter and be able to survive for longer in battle.

Thompsoncs - yes i also agree with you about the role of ancient cavalry forces and their minimal role in ACTUAL combat. and yes i completely agree with your changing of infantry bonus to archer and/or siege bonus

[This message has been edited by SlyStalker (edited 10-08-2012 @ 02:00 AM).]

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