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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » tool rushing strategies
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Topic Subject:tool rushing strategies
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 06-03-10 04:17 AM ET (US)         
i need help. I've heard of some, such as blitzing and brushing, but how? how?!
I can do a regular tool rush, but i suspect that the blitz needs a special approach. a good spot is a given.

all these are tool rushes. blizing, i've seen the word a few times.
and the chinese topic, i just clicked on the site, and found vids of AoE.

IM LOOKING FOR 1V1 STRATS
I can't find much on these anywhere on the site, maybe some mention in topics, but not much, with the only help being from
http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,1248,4475,all

the blitz and brush, i think are supposed to be speedy tool rushes.

Heres the vid i found from the chinese topic,
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.333hd.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=88822&extra=&page=1&prev=/search?q=http://333hd.com/bbs/&rurl=translate.google.com.au&client=firefox-a&usg=ALkJrhihkPo2SFawaSbbnB4whiYU1I1hPg
i can't speak china, sso i needed a translator to even get lucky enough to find a vid. but my comps junk, so it doesn't play well.

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 06-04-2010 @ 05:21 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Basse
Clubman
posted 06-03-10 08:07 AM ET (US)     1 / 16       
These links all will guide you to different tool rushes, though I have never heard of brushing or blitzing. Brush could possibly be a bronze age rush or a rush strategy in aok, like flush, drush and grush.

http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/strategy/articles/CivSpecific/the_phoenician_tool_archer_rush.shtml
http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/strategy/articles/the_axer_rush.shtml
http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/strategy/articles/Blitz/ToolAgeWarfare.shtml
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-03-10 12:01 PM ET (US)     2 / 16       
I can't remember anything now to give tips and advice on timings and build orders. Besides, I never could execute perfect tool rushes myself.

I would say, however, that most online players prefer the axer + slinger combination. They're incredibly disruptive. But you must make sure that you are in the enemy base by 8-9min to start your attack. Keep up the attack for a few more minutes and make sure the enemy villies are running around and not working. That should be good enough, IMO.

If you're in a team game, don't spend too much time in Tool, once you see that you've achieved your objective of disrupting the enemy, go to Bronze asap, lest you get screwed by your enemy's allies. You can never trust your ally to plug all the gaps and defend you properly, no matter how good they are.

*edit* I've never heard of "brush" before either. Sound like Bronze-rush. In the late 90's that would be a cavalry rush, I guess. But soon mass CAs took over and became the most popular Bronze rushing strat.

[This message has been edited by Duan Xuan (edited 06-03-2010 @ 12:04 PM).]

local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 06-03-10 02:32 PM ET (US)     3 / 16       
found it.
http://aoe.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aoecgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,1248,4475,all

which reminds me, that I can't find the aoe bible - broken links galore lol
and that topic is apparently paraphrased, and an 1/8 of the size. not enough on tool rushing, but it tells me enough.
I'd seen blitzing mentioned several other times before, so my impressions was that its a very fast and powerful tool rush with 12 vils where you tool at 6-7 minutes with 12 vils. but i never know. and thats hardly a guide, more like a runover.

and aok heaven? i used to think that was a cultist site, if you must know the truth. took me a while HERE to figure out it wasn't a crazy cult site.

and, the calvary rush is good.
yamato = cheaper cavs, scouts
Assy = Chariot Archer, Needs wheel before making. superior in tool
tool rushing? no. i've done rushes in stone in team games. it was a very good lasting several hours. im fairly certain i took down red in stone age. he was on my strip of land, and i didn't want to be teamed on by him and hittites (i think it was hittites, i remember ships of death. maybe red was hitites?) took him out of the game with villagers and some military support, and only had to fear hittite scout ships.

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 06-03-2010 @ 02:46 PM).]

Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-03-10 11:38 PM ET (US)     4 / 16       
Yup i just can't resist the temptation of Shang, assy and hittite Chariot archer ruses...flesh is so weak! i need to find new strats.
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 06-08-10 08:17 AM ET (US)     5 / 16       
is none going to help me? also i;'d like to change the topic name to ask for strategy. The only thing I'm really looking for is good strategy articles like GX AoE bible.
well, in any case, i am able to access it ONLY by using archive.org
found here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000816071959/www.gamersx.com/aoe/tw-blitz.asp
the blitz and brush articles. thats what i was wanting for :-)
thought i personally doubt I could be in the tool age at 6 minutes. maybe 7, lol.

the slingshot articles look very promising i should try that sometime..

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 06-08-2010 @ 09:01 AM).]

Basse
Clubman
posted 06-08-10 10:56 AM ET (US)     6 / 16       
To tool in 6 minutes is very hard. My record is 7 minutes I think. But that was the time I played in IGZ. Now I only play in Gameranger and my skills I used to have at IGZ is gone with the wind

[This message has been edited by Basse (edited 06-08-2010 @ 11:00 AM).]

plismo
Clubman
posted 06-12-10 10:12 AM ET (US)     7 / 16       
I had done tool at 8:20 with 20 villagers but its kinda hard. Only if I get 2 elephants or gazelles I gather food at the beginning and only put 3 villagers cutting wood all the others gathering food so it doesn't rot much example 6 people on a elephant. But for fast bronzing its harder you will need to put more on wood because you will need extra wood and you can bronze like 11 minutes with 20 or 22 even 18 or 16, had a friend who can rush at 11 and then he created more villagers and expand really well he could match eco like the one who bronze in 15 with 28 villagers.

Because you upgrade woodcutting you will get cutting faster more wood if you get a good map you can expand really well, but sometimes hills not always you get a good map there is where the strat is kinda a failure unless you can kill at least 12 villagers with a calvary and also upgrade second bronze armor if they use their villagers to defend.

Also there are ways to counter a rush by tooling faster or around the same time and wall.

Like this video http://www.megavideo.com/?d=ZCTD33Y9 hill berries an expert from voobly he was going to get rush and he wall really quick this could also be use against a fast bronze. Whay you guys think? Also they sent slingers that can destroy walls and he could make another row of walls.

[This message has been edited by plismo (edited 06-12-2010 @ 10:24 AM).]

local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 06-14-10 05:08 PM ET (US)     8 / 16       
The following is on Medit and continental Maps
well, i've been experimenting with phoenie and shang dock first strats, trying to boom to 40-50 before tooling reasonably.
Which brings me to the next question: should i pull a late full on tool attack instead of bronzing in 14-15 minutes?? with that many FB's and woodcutters, i have tons of food coming in, but i just KNOW my opponent is going to go for a juicy Fishing fleet, unless i attack on land, opening up the seas for me in the interim. and by spending resources on land, he can't afford to go to bronze or attack my fleet without stopping my army.

Phoenicia only works pre-patch. and that computer does not have internet, so no patch for that one anyways
which reminds me. there were some DIFFERENCES between igz patch and 1.0c patch (at least, thats what i rmember. mayb eim wrong)
can anyone confirm this?

btw, here is what i know
Spreading out counters Tool rush which counters Fast bronze which counters spreading out

thx for the vid. ill watch it now
And elephants? Those are hard to find

the dock first im trying out needs a good forest nearby (guideline says within 6 tiles of your tc is best)
on a side note, im always starting my dock before the second minute

I also tried the Wedsaz Minoan Fastboom
It was slow. of course the spot was average, and didn't have Very close forests, but it was on a medit map. i tried it once. it was too slow, maybe i did it wrong, maybe its not real. but it was way too slow. I stand no chance doing that against human opponents. i had too little wood coming in. I ended up with way way too much surplus food, despite the low wood.

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 06-14-2010 @ 05:19 PM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-14-10 05:48 PM ET (US)     9 / 16       
You don't need to waste time on Wedsaz' strategy for Minoa - as he admitted after much pressure, he only ever played it with the map that comes with the demo, it has been discredited by all people I ever saw post here.
plismo
Clubman
posted 06-15-10 11:09 AM ET (US)     10 / 16       
Well for medit one of my friend who is GP roman jet he is really good at mediterranean that is his best map. He can do 13 minutes bronze and attack really strong. He uses storage pit on fishes with villagers you will see him dominating water and attack at land sometimes. Another one I know is GP Ildivo who can also do bronze in 13 minutes and dominate water only creating boats I havent seein him attacking land and water like roman jet. Roman Jet is my favourite player GP, you will see him having 4 or 5 docks at bronze with lots of fishing boats.

You also can start with storage pit on fishes and put only 4 or 5 villagers fishing near woods or just 4 villagers you will get wood a little faster then switch either to dock or berries and then storage pit just for wood. I dont really know how roman jet can bronze in 13 and attack sea and land really strong he is very leet at medit.
Basse
Clubman
posted 06-15-10 11:24 AM ET (US)     11 / 16       
Bronze in 13 minutes is quite easy if you know the right strategy, me and a guy on gameranger tried to bronze record fast on hill country and medit, we both got around 13 minutes every times, and either a good CA rush, or Warboat rush.

IMO in hills though, tool 7 min, tool rush and bronze <16 minute is best strategy. Though I haven't been doing that for ages, now I only use to bronze at 14 minutes and rush in bronze
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-16-10 05:44 PM ET (US)     12 / 16       
Wow it is nice to see there is still strategy being discussed.

1v1 strategy for expert games is a simple build order and plan. Pick Shang because they give you the most stable econ. Once you perfect Shang move to Yamato. Don't play any other civ until you perfect these two, because you can't win with any other civilization if you play anyone good (as good as me at least).

Have a total of 20 vills and click the Tool upgrade right when the 20th is created. To do this you need to do 1 of 2 things to start: 5 vills (4 if Shang) on berries or 4 on shore fish (3 if Shang) with a pit close by.

After your initial food source is going, search your land and find the best pit spot for forest. Have all other villagers chopping 75W strags.

Your explorer needs to find your second berry patch and your elephants and gazelle. Lure back an elephant to your TC and have 1-2 villagers start harvesting the elephant. If you don't have elephants, you can lure 1-2 gaz back to your TC.

Your only 2 buildings should be the one granary and one wood pit. Never have more than 4-5 ever on wood. Start loading all of your villagers on your berries, shore fish, and elephant/gazelle as you get 17 vills...that way when you get 20 vills you can click Tool immediately.

Once you click Tool, rebalance economy by sending villagers to wood pile. Have 4-5 build a granary by your second berries. Have 1 villager explore enemy and build rax. Start booming clubbers as soon as completed. Build 2nd rax when you have the wood.

Immediately upon entering Tool you have to do several things at once:
Storage pit armor upgrade for axers
Axer upgrade in rax
Wall upgrade in granary

Wall in your woody villagers (along a coast with a new storage pit for forest and 2-4 shore fish if possible). Immediately start searching for enemy villagers with clubbers. Don't attack until the armor upgrade is complete.

Don't make any villagers during this time, only clubbers/axers out of 2 rax. Chase all enemy villagers and kill them.

Meanwhile start making slingers from your 2 rax, and make another 1-2 rax. Make a dock by your enemy and start booming scout ships. Build a pit by a stone mine and have one villager mine stone (some experts start stone mining during the Tool upgrade, but I always thought it was better to wait until you were going for a bit in Tool).

Start booming villagers and make a dock close to your base and boom fishing boats. Keep constant pressure attacking enemy villagers as they flee.

Make a market and improve slingers if necessary. Never engage in a fight when you don't have an advantage in numbers.

Play this strategy 4-5 thousand times until you can come on a website having not played for a few years and recite it like it was yesterday.....it is really quite simple.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-20-10 03:29 PM ET (US)     13 / 16       
good to see BlitzkriegComin is still around
John Smitherson
Clubman
posted 06-22-10 12:48 PM ET (US)     14 / 16       
That was a shameless pun opportunity wasted. (e.g. 'good to see Blitzkrieg is still Comin around')

Anyway, so a blitz is just a tool rush with absolutely optimal conditions? There are no real differences in order or strategy?

How would you counter something like this? If someone's hitting you with a world-record tool rush, it seems a little hopeless... It looks to me like you'd have to be blitzing yourself to prevent it. Do you just have to have luck/fate on your side that they DON'T get their blitz going? Or can a game be salvaged somehow?

Or am I overestimating it and it can be dealt with the same as a villager rush or standard tool rush?

[This message has been edited by John Smitherson (edited 06-22-2010 @ 12:52 PM).]

BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 06-22-10 06:24 PM ET (US)     15 / 16       
There are a few things to practice in order to survive a tool rush.

1) The biggest thing is to know that one is coming. You do this by checking achievements to see how many villagers your opponent has. A rusher will stop at 20 villager max. Don't keep making villagers if your opponent has stopped at 20. Check achievements repeatedly so you know where he stopped making them so you can adjust your strategy.

2) Have good exploration in the Stone Age. This way if you are attacked in early Tool Age you can run your villagers to a new pit with wood/fish without losing any villagers.

3) Chase any forward builders he has to prevent them from completing a barracks at your base.

4) Make sure to apply pressure to his economy as soon as possible.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-24-10 01:25 PM ET (US)     16 / 16       
4) Make sure to apply pressure to his economy as soon as possible.
that's the part who hurts me the most when i play...specially because i'0m not so good at micromanagement so all my villies are concentrated around my frist town center -_-
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