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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » need some tips for Phoenies vs Persians
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Topic Subject:need some tips for Phoenies vs Persians
ChoSonsSon
Clubman
posted 05-31-10 08:41 PM ET (US)         
Hello to all AOE junkies, i've been using this site for almost two years yet i just registered.
anyway, i'd like some general advice for advancing to the Bronze Age faster. (under 20 mins is my goal)
For a specific question, how do I kill those dam* elephants?? All my guys get slaughtered! I play the phoenies, FYI.
I know I should rush him (he barely gets any units), but how? with what? Some tips would be much appreciated.
AuthorReplies:
Basse
Clubman
posted 06-01-10 09:06 AM ET (US)     1 / 9       
The thing is to rush the opponent before he get's his elephants. I use to use chariot archers when I reach bronze, make 5 of them, and attack. Keep the production of chariot archers till you have enough resources to iron, or your opponent is held off, at least so he can't get to iron before you. If he get's to the iron age before you and gets elephants pretty quick. Make sure you have priests to convert the elephants. When you get to iron, you have 3 choices, Elephants (cheaper with phoenicians), scythe chariots (very good for killing opponents economy) and priests AND if it is water map, ships.

Read this strategy guide to learn more: http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/strategy/articles/CivSpecific/phoenician_a_guide_for_better_play.shtml

About your faster bronzing thing...

Read this guide: http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/strategy/articles/the_fast_bronze_strategy.shtml
Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)
posted 06-01-10 11:58 AM ET (US)     2 / 9       
You're actually asking for tips on how to effectively use what is generally a strong RM civ against what most people would say is the weakest one in the game.

Phoenie has a great bonus to woodcutting and Chariot Archers, while Persia lacks the wheel technology for chariots and CAs, meaning that to effectively counter CAs he will have to get Cavalry or Composite bowmen to counter effectively, but even if he does you should be able to get the CAs up much faster.
When making a rush your main target should be the opponents villagers, roam your opponents base and kill anything that moves, Chariot Archers deal pathetic damage against buildings, so if you feel like destroying some buildings while you have the advantage get a couple of Stone throwers.

Once you reach Iron Age you should really get Scythes as soon as possible for raiding your opponents base. Use war elephantts to counter those of your opponent, and back them up with some CAs you have left from the Bronze age. I wouldn't recommend Phoenie Priests, as they only get Polytheism, and therefore will be easily killed by Persian Horse Archers.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris
Basse
Clubman
posted 06-01-10 12:02 PM ET (US)     3 / 9       
Frukty, remember that stone throwers easily beat up CAs. I suggest CA rush, backed up with regular chariots, or you could just stay away from his army and just kill his economy by sending 3-4 CAs to the spot where he has most villagers
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-01-10 12:41 PM ET (US)     4 / 9       
Phoenie priests get all techs.
ChoSonsSon
Clubman
posted 06-01-10 08:03 PM ET (US)     5 / 9       
thanx y'all, I kicked his ass following your rush guidelines!
may the Gods of AOE bless you for eternity~
Gumble
Clubman
posted 06-01-10 11:25 PM ET (US)     6 / 9       
Fruky's strategey sounds awfaily familier, he is probably speaking from experiance from recieving attacks following that exact strategey namely from Gumble himself. As he recalls it was only Helelix's anus camel/stone thrower charge that saved you from destruction. Thats why one never plays 3 player games.

Play to Phoencia's strengths when choosing maps. Phoenies is most certainly a water race. Use the wood cutting bonus to pump ships from serveral docks right into his base on an island map or use them to blockade choke points like in 'medditerainian' or 'narrows'. Whilst this makes for a good defensive strategey and allows you to control the map's resources if you want to go in for the kill use the charieot archer strategey (persian villagers can't run for their lives) OR rush in tool age if the map is small enough. Generaly small-medium map sizes are good for a rush. Armoured axemen or massed slingers with stone mining have put Fruky to shame countless times. Generaly speaking if the first rush fails if you still did a good enough job of sabotageing their economy you can follow up latter with a more devestating bronze/iron age attack. This is especially the case with Persia. Persia sucks until late brone/iron age.

Finally if your doing a deathmatch or Persia has survived to be a menace, countering their eles is best with priests AND upgraded phalanxs/hoplites. (Centurians are generally too expensive to field in effective numbers). hoplites and phalanxes are great for pinning those pesky eles in place and priests convert what the hoplites don't kill.

The Charieot archer/ ship rush uses mainly wood then food. hopi/priest combo uses gold and food. Plan accordingly.

One of the funniest games Gumble had against persia was the final scenerio in the Roman campaign where it was palymerians verse persia. Heres this for a strategey, an army of villagers. Thats right, fully upgraded villies with a fast speed (calvary effect) 65hp, armour (What a thought) and sapper abillities. Who cares if their priests convert a few, just rush, rush, RUSH and watch the little guys maul over towers, priests, siege, archers, and even the occasional elephant.

Too many people say far too much about Gumble. They also claim Gumble says far too much which isnt true.

One man's truth is another man's lie. Seek TRUTH to escape this moral mire.

'Experts' try to analyse human behaviour and the human condition and make grand conclusions. - Its the same as the guy who explains why a joke is funny and kills the joke.
local boi
Clubman
(id: dragon14)
posted 06-01-10 11:45 PM ET (US)     7 / 9       
Hahaha. a villager run over.. thing.. sstuff. well you get what i meant.

Alright.. How is the persian player playing? Is he building Tc's all over the map or staying in a generally confines of his base?.. nvm that. hit him with archers, and seige. Persia doesn't do so well in bronze, so make sure he can't boom. Persia's objective is to get to iron age and have war elephants that can outmaneuver you. And they get decent priests. Hit persia's wood. that is your objective. without wood, he can't spread and expand across the map.
I would put up many town centers once i bronzed, and start getting tons of food. and Farms. a lot. its won me quite a few games. Persia needs the same resources as any civ. priorities are on food and wood. without wood, one can't expand across the map and make farms. this is all based on the idea that the map is a large medium map size, where faster elephants are useful, and expansion is possible.

Use Chariot Archers in bronze, ok? as phoenician, you get those. very good. The bowman rush. Tool warfare. If there's water take advantage. build lots of boats, bcuz persia can't take the water until iron age. yes. iron age. thats when they get their super trimes, and you get your super catapult trimes. What I am saying is to not let it become a battle of attrition.Because Persia must expand or it will lose, and attrition is the perfect way for them to become a superpower. In Iron, you do get cheaper elephants. And persia gets faster elephants and should have a good economy going by that time. Speed is important, bcuz it lets persia outmanuever your elephants. They can go for important targets. ..

i just figured out that the above is too much on what i usually did with persia. and not how to counter it.
To counter: Rush. Crush everything in Persia. Attack wood and food. and farms. those are a big investment, and especially for persia, whos only economic bonus is hunting and while useful, is decent for rushing, is not going to let persia mass its great iron age. in fat, persias farms are WORSE and suffer de-bonuses.
What you should be building: I generally go pit first by gazelles/shore fish + 3-4 straggler trees. look for sweet spots (at this point, food by wood) and, if you get lucky, lure gaia elephants to yourr town center.
after this, tool rush or go massed chariot archers against persia, backed by stone throwers to destroy farms and town centers. in iron, if you successfully stopped their food or wood, you can make more eles yourself and have a slow lumbering army.
on the sea, persia sucks in bronze, which you might spend the longest time in.

Btw, i have come to a conclusion: if you can sift through my advice and pick out the correct aspects, that would be appreciated.
To stop persia, if his army sucks, just boom. with wheel, you will outdo his boom, and phoenicias better woodcutters and cheaper eles means a stronger iron than persia

USA
katsup or mustard

[This message has been edited by dragon14 (edited 06-02-2010 @ 03:48 AM).]

Basse
Clubman
posted 06-02-10 11:37 AM ET (US)     8 / 9       
Persians have to take their advantages as a very good hunting civ. That makes a tool-rush most devastating because they can tool so quick with a fairly good landscape with a few gazelles, 1-2 elephants and a few berry bushes. I use to player persians like this:

I make about 12-16 villagers before tool. First 3 goes on berries, the fourth starts to cut the closest tree and the fifth explores. 6th on food, 7th and 8th on wood and then 9th on food aswell. Then I pick all villagers to build a storage pit near some gazelles or elephants. Then I kill all gazelles at the same time OR one of the elephants and start to gather food. The next 11th villager goes to cut wood, and hopefully you have found the enemy at this point. Then you build a barrack close to his woodcutters, but make sure he wont see you. I tool as soon as possible now. When on my way on tool, I collect more wood to make a seconds barracks. When I reach tool, I research axe and makes 3-4 axemens. Then I make 2-3 villagers, and then 3-4 more axemens. While crushing the opponents economy I have built up a fairly strong economy and a wall around my base. 2-3 villagers outside starts to pick berries and wall in the opponent in a corner and start to build stables as I bronze.

In the bronze age (if the opponent haven't already given up) I start to pump out cavalry to rush his remains, if he has walled himself in, I use stone throwers.

This usually works vs a decent RMer in hill country.

In water, persian is way weaker as they were a land civ. However, in water maps, Persian triremes fires faster, but lacks range.
Suppiluliuma
AoEH Seraph
posted 06-03-10 11:29 PM ET (US)     9 / 9       
It has been quite some time before i read strategies in this section of the forum. Hmm maybe i should give persians a chance. I have always thought they were so weak because they lacked wheel but i have never tried them in RMs (i know they are pretty strong in DMs but for some reason i always fail, lol)
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