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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Underhand dealings of hatti help
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Topic Subject:Underhand dealings of hatti help
OrallioPentecost
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 01:48 PM ET (US)         
I have played on the Underhand Dealings of the Hatti Archive. So I am on the Pharaoh map. The Pharaoh, the King and the Princess. So I made it to the point where the river is, and to where the Raft and the Blind Lame Priest on the other side. Except that there is no way to cross. I tried all the way to the other side of the shallow with my raft- except a stone blocks. It hasnt been this way earlier- there has always been a way to pass. In the earlier scenario, the Raft worked.

Wait- It seems, after further testing, that its possible to pass on the back. I was going to ask how I can pass it and thinking I was stuck. Apparently, the Villager at the back (A Gaia villager that can be captured), is important. It can be used to cut one threes (one piece or whatever a single three is called :S). But then- is the Raft just for show? What other purpose does it serve than confusion? Seriously. Okay, I got it: It can be used to get that single Chariot Archer that is otherwise ungettable. (On a island). But seriously...

I was going to complain how unfriendily the scenario is designed- I would need to load my transport once for each unit. 16 units, so 16 times. Then I could only unload on the BLind Lame Priest island, and after that I would have to unload with four Chariots near the shore, so I couldnt even unload in peace (not enough space). But seems the author agrees.

But seriously, why do this? Why not provide clear space to pass? Isnt it difficult enough already? You have to be truly good a at micromanagement, enough that I considered this scenario a devious trap and changed my style thereafter. I enjoyed each time I could exploit tactics to the maximum. To make it more "challenging"? Isnt there enough fighting already? And ahead? Just look at the bridge- once you have passed, there is fighting again... Seriously, this is the only scenario to do this. And before you scream about puzzle scenarios and such, this scenario is the only scenario where its completely impassable. I repeat my question: Why do I have to use a obscure trick most wouldnt think about- or even notice (the vill)?. I didnt think about it either- I just grabbed it for Villagers sake, thinking I could build something. The Villager was stuck on a rock. If I wouldnt have been truly persistent- I would have been stuck. Just think of other players- esp. more average ones.

Last: Only in "The Pharaoh, the King and the Princess" do you get to choose between an easy and a tough option: Do you take the easy way and come to your king's aid with your Qadesh army, or do you try to do with the king's small force of guards. The scenario review claims I can use my army to outright help the king. How do I do this? Tell me outright. I see no other way than wiping out the Egyptians and then the brown Hoplites at the Wonder, and then the rest beyond the back of it...
AuthorReplies:
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 02:10 PM ET (US)     1 / 13       
Andrea didn't post a walkthrough? Strange. But oh well. I can't help you as I haven't played that one yet... I'm sure a forumer will come by sooner or later.
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 07:54 PM ET (US)     2 / 13       
Sorry, haven't played it either. But I emailed Andrea drawing his attention to this.
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 07:58 PM ET (US)     3 / 13       
Does Andrea actually respond to your e-mails?
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 08:01 PM ET (US)     4 / 13       
The only other time I emailed him asking for help, he responded within 48 hours.
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 08:04 PM ET (US)     5 / 13       
Was it just a line, or a whole detailed paragraph?
The Dark Archer
HG Alumnus
posted 06-19-07 09:59 PM ET (US)     6 / 13       
I'd say he probably does check his e-mails regularly. Hopefully we'll hear from him soon.

The Dark Archer

"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
"I once met a girl who looked like a camel" - Rasteve
Death of the Morads | AoEH Design Series II | Out From the Cliffs
Trisolo
Clubman
(id: scenario_t_c)
posted 06-19-07 10:38 PM ET (US)     7 / 13       
A new kind of 2-in-1 scenario based upon the long struggle between Hatti and Egypt. As the Battle of Qadesh begins, try to convert Egyptian hoplites, then manage your troops according to the situation. Bring your priests far from the fray, and discover the town of Qadesh. Here you will find a group of villagers with wich you can build up your defences. Academy units are not available, as well as siege weapons, while Egypt will continuously attack with highly upgraded Hoplites and their mighty Chariots. Use your Priests to convert what you can, and remember how much effective are Horse Archers against Hoplites. Hold back the Egyptians and wait for the late entry of King Hattusilis III and his caravan: it will take roughly 30 minutes before this happens, and you can check the time by pressing F11 during the game. Once the caravan arrives at Alaca-Hüyük, you will have to split your attention between Qadesh and the King's caravan. The true goal of this scenario is to bring King Hattusilis III and his daughter, Princes Neptera, to Pharaoh Ramses II. The hot spot is in Ugarit, where a warlord is planning to kidnap the Princes. Should the white force capture the chest where the Princes was concealed, you will lose, so never let the chest unkept as long as you are in Ugarit. Another point of advice: always keep your bowmen behind the infantry. At some point - roughly after one hour of play - Ramses will ask for an heavy tribute: paying it will allow you to enter his palace and achieve your goal.
To make these things happen, a certain setting of game difficulty may be needed as well (if mentioned in the Hints or Scenario Instruction section).

Member of Tsunami Studios
Scenario T.C.: “Yes, the traitors can’t be terminated.”
Richard Ames: “Scenario_t_c should take care of them in a succinct but humorous fashion.”
Don Jorge de Leon: “Ave Trisolo! Vive Trisolo!”

[This message has been edited by Scenario_T_C (edited 06-19-2007 @ 10:43 PM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-20-07 10:26 AM ET (US)     8 / 13       
You don't need that raft to ferry your entire army across - there's another route. The raft is for finding something else.
Andrea Rosa
Clubman
posted 06-21-07 05:06 PM ET (US)     9 / 13       
Many thanks for your detailed report, OrallioPentecost. You gave me many clues on how to make the campaign more user friendly!

First of all, that scenario mut be played at least on Moderate, or the timed appearance of the caravan will not work. I didn't know that the CPU behaves like a sitting duck on Easiest/Easy, back when I made this campaign. But I guess you're already playing on an adequate skill level, otherwise the caravan would have not appeared.


But seriously, why do this? Why not provide clear space to pass? Isnt it difficult enough already? You have to be truly good a at micromanagement, enough that I considered this scenario a devious trap and changed my style thereafter. I enjoyed each time I could exploit tactics to the maximum. To make it more "challenging"? Isnt there enough fighting already? And ahead? Just look at the bridge- once you have passed, there is fighting again... Seriously, this is the only scenario to do this.

Fighting in this scenario does require good micromanagement, as you argued, but it's not that hard once you realize that the brown player always retaliates with a single unit (the one you attack), and not with multiple ones. So the key is to attack one enemy unit at once. This does not apply to the grey force if I remember correctly: their counter attack will be extremely ferocious.


And before you scream about puzzle scenarios and such, this scenario is the only scenario where its completely impassable. I repeat my question: Why do I have to use a obscure trick most wouldnt think about- or even notice (the vill)?. I didnt think about it either- I just grabbed it for Villagers sake, thinking I could build something. The Villager was stuck on a rock. If I wouldnt have been truly persistent- I would have been stuck. Just think of other players- esp. more average ones

Well, I think that most AoE players do know the resource-swap trick, as it has been used in several campaigns, however I do agree with you: it is not an option, so I should have mentioned it in the Hints. Worst of all, I forgot to describe it in the walkthrough. Big slip-up!!

An updated version of the Hatti Archive, meant to fix various bugs, has been in my plans for long time. I'll try to take care of that after the Norse campaign.


Last: Only in "The Pharaoh, the King and the Princess" do you get to choose between an easy and a tough option: Do you take the easy way and come to your king's aid with your Qadesh army, or do you try to do with the king's small force of guards. The scenario review claims I can use my army to outright help the king. How do I do this? Tell me outright. I see no other way than wiping out the Egyptians and then the brown Hoplites at the Wonder, and then the rest beyond the back of it...
One possible way to do that, would be to chop down the trees behind the Egyptian base (with a lot of patience) and walk on the strip of land hosting the lions, up to the caravan. It is possible, as I said, but it was not meant in the design of the scenario: the force in Qadesh should not have any chance to meet and/or assist the caravan. Sharp-eyed Ingo must have noted such a possible shortcut, and unfortunately decided to mention it in the review, adding further confusion. Should I release an updated version of this campaign, I will fix these inconsistences as well.

Andrea Rosa
My only fear is to be left without beer

AoE Last Resort | Quake II: Citadel
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-21-07 05:34 PM ET (US)     10 / 13       
Actually there's another way - I played it but probably wrong, so I didn't see a caravan appear. So I waited, waited, routed Egypt and waited until the tribute request came, then with the Quadesh army went through the orange city, mopped up any brown units, found the helpless villager stuck on that rock - btw you need to tell that you can't play this scenario in the unpatched version - in that case he can't get at the trees - duh. So I had some of my own villagers clear the trees. Mopped up more, found a path to the caravan, then returned the lot and parked the king and his daughter at the wonder. Very fine scenario, except I found the beginning took too long. But maybe I was taking it too easy.
Nikokol
Clubman
posted 06-22-07 03:45 PM ET (US)     11 / 13       
I don't know but when I tested the scenario on moderate, the dynamic didn't work in 30 % of the cases (tested 30 times with the speed editor on a reasonable speed, about 40-50).

Tribulation Designs
I wish my English was better ...
Andrea Rosa
Clubman
posted 06-24-07 04:20 PM ET (US)     12 / 13       
Actually there's another way - I played it but probably wrong, so I didn't see a caravan appear. So I waited, waited, routed Egypt and waited until the tribute request came, then with the Quadesh army went through the orange city, mopped up any brown units, found the helpless villager stuck on that rock - btw you need to tell that you can't play this scenario in the unpatched version - in that case he can't get at the trees - duh. So I had some of my own villagers clear the trees. Mopped up more, found a path to the caravan, then returned the lot and parked the king and his daughter at the wonder. Very fine scenario, except I found the beginning took too long. But maybe I was taking it too easy.

Oh yes, you are right, that's another possible way. No way, I will surely need to revise this scenario.

I don't know but when I tested the scenario on moderate, the dynamic didn't work in 30 % of the cases (tested 30 times with the speed editor on a reasonable speed, about 40-50).

That's not a good new, indeed. Do you remember if you were playing with the patch? Because I have seen it fail only without the patch (the Alligator may end up stuck between the Lions).

Andrea Rosa
My only fear is to be left without beer

AoE Last Resort | Quake II: Citadel
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-25-07 06:20 PM ET (US)     13 / 13       
Sorry if I sounded harsh, a bad habit of mine, but I must still add that the tribute request came at something like 50 minutes into the game. Maybe you can look into that as well.
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