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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » The 'Hardest' Difficulty... Really, way-hay-hay too hard...
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Topic Subject:The 'Hardest' Difficulty... Really, way-hay-hay too hard...
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-16-07 03:33 PM ET (US)         
After practicing quite a bit with Egypt in these RM games, I've finally managed to beat 1v6 a number of times now, although it's still quite difficult for me--as it often lulls into the iron age, and I'll have to use priests to get rid of hoppers and elephants--I still though it would be a good time to move on up to Hardest.

So, I went for 1v2 against Greek and Persia...

Don't ask why I took a screenie. I'm just like that.

But anyhoo, when I first started it seemed to go quite smooth. I had plenty of fauna, so I was good to go into Tool with just a pit and barracks. I just kept going, and bronzed at about 15-16mins. I had alot of resources and all, so I went ahead starting pumping out chariots and priests like mad. It wasn't long though, before red started to attack me... Most of my chariots were used up eventually! I kept pumping them out, and managed to blot out a bunch of his vils. Then blue attacked, and almost knocked me right off my feet... I managed to throw it back a bit, thanks to camels, but then right after that, red attacked again with an enormous mass of hoppers and STs... I was dying, and then blue pretty much came by and finished it.

Quite nasty, really.

I tried it again in 1v1, trying a tool rush this time, but only ended up dying quicker.


While I assume I could handle a 1v2 on a gigantic map or something of the sort, can any of you do anything on hardest? I find it ridiculously difficult... If you can do farily well, whats the best you can do? Looking at the stats, my enemies bronzed at 8 minutes. Frightening...

[This message has been edited by Dean McCullough (edited 06-16-2007 @ 03:35 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Alakazam
Clubman
posted 06-16-07 04:38 PM ET (US)     1 / 26       
On Hardest PCs start off with 500 of each Food and Wood. That's why they are so quick.

TBH, Egypt isn't the strongest civ. Unless you can really get the CA advantage.

A L A K A Z A M

[This message has been edited by Alakazam (edited 06-16-2007 @ 04:39 PM).]

The Dark Archer
HG Alumnus
posted 06-16-07 05:26 PM ET (US)     2 / 26       
IIRC it is more then 500. I'm not completely sure but I think it is 2000 more of every resource.

The Dark Archer

"Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value." - Albert Einstein
"I once met a girl who looked like a camel" - Rasteve
Death of the Morads | AoEH Design Series II | Out From the Cliffs
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-16-07 05:31 PM ET (US)     3 / 26       
I haven't played RM at hardest for quite a while, but when you play at hardest or at hard with moderate resources, you find that the AI suddenly isn't so bad as you thought it was. The CPs just need that boost of resources and off they go. From what I remember they'll be at your throat as soon as you train a single military unit. And they definitely don't like it if you hurt their darling villagers. So, tool rushing is just about the silliest thing you can do at that level. Blitz seems to be rather good at beating seven CPs at hardest on Medit, but he admitted once that he couldn't do it on a hill country map. The secret is to spread out and cut your losses. Expect to lose lots of units and buildings in the early phases of the game.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 06-16-07 11:02 PM ET (US)     4 / 26       
Yeah with extra resources the game actually becomes very unrealistic - they can Bronze in 7mins flat IIRC, which is ridiculous. You'll be fighting Bronze units with lousy Tool units, and to survive you really must know how to flee and rebuild. It's impossible to stay on and beat any CP that's on its way to the Iron age.

The CP on hardest is really tough, but after it's just an AI. It doesn't have the good sense to search and destroy, meaning you can just hide in a corner of the map and build up (change bases from time to time of course) then Iron-jump or something. The CP is beatable on the land this way, but don't bother winning the sea until you're in Iron. Also, don't bother tool rushing - you'll be hacking at upgraded hoplites with your axers...

Btw, I love posts with screenshots. They make things so much clearer and more interesting.
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 01:25 AM ET (US)     5 / 26       
2000 resources is why you lost. You have to be able to work so fast you out do that. Which is impossible, so you run like hell as a resort.

I always play on default map size (large) and I've never won anything except 1v1 on hardest (I won a 1v6 on hard though ). It also really depends on the ai and per files they get allocated, as this will obviously impact on how they attack etc. Once, I was playing a CPU that got a per I had written when designing, with disastrous results Basically, it chose the unit with the highest health, formed a square around this unit, and then moved it towards the unit with the second highest health, formed a square around that unit, and so on.... That was on hardest, so it did it quicker
Nikokol
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 03:55 AM ET (US)     6 / 26       
I played 2v2 (Shang and Hittite) vs 2 Palmy PCs yesterday on hardest. The enemy Ironed in 18 mins but he attacked my ally. He had only 2 CAs when I attacked him with around 15 CAs. The other enemy was destroyed by my ally. Hardest vs Palmy is not so hard - try before you start 1v2 or something.

Tribulation Designs
I wish my English was better ...
LittleFreak
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 07:23 AM ET (US)     7 / 26       
Playing hardest is hard as heck (come to think of it!). Allies definitely help, as does spreading out. It's really a game of hide and seek. If you win hide and seek, you'll win hardest random map sooner or later.

While sausages are tasty, you might cut your finger with that pencil over there.
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 06:24 PM ET (US)     8 / 26       
Ok, so I beat a 1v1 on hardest... Although, I could hardly call it a game as it was a 1v1 on a huge map with reveal all on. I did manage to beat it nevertheless, as once I saw that my enemy (yamato) was attacking me with just cavalry and priests, it was all camels and CAs for me.

They did try to build a wonder, but within two attacks it was down, and after a third attack the minimap looked like this...

They were pretty much beaten... As I got their TC down and knocked out a bunch of their villies. Just one last, fourth attack, and they were done for good.

I'll go ahead and try a "real" game now, as in this one they never even managed to spot me... Therefore I could just build up at will and burn them to pieces within a few attacks. I'll go for a 1v1 with no reveal map and see how I do... I'll try more of the "nomad" style of playing, and see if I can get another one down in the hole for me.

The way I see it, if I can just get as many resources as I can WHILE going from place to place and staying away from my adversary, sooner or later I'll be able to outdo them by countering their units and hitting them in the right spot.

Tactics, not just sheer force. Sounds good to me. Thanks...
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 07:33 PM ET (US)     9 / 26       
Playing hardest is hard as heck (come to think of it!)
ZOMG irony
The way I see it, if I can just get as many resources as I can WHILE going from place to place and staying away from my adversary, sooner or later I'll be able to outdo them by countering their units and hitting them in the right spot.
The problem with that is that it's exceedingly difficult to successfully gather large amounts of resources AND rebuilt constantly in different places AND not let the enemy claim too much land so that you have nowhere to hide. Once you can do all of those, you'll be up there with the higher ladder players. Like me
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-17-07 09:12 PM ET (US)     10 / 26       
I'm working on it. You'll see gigs... Sometime...

Is Cloud really that good by the way?
Blessed_Salmon
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 12:56 PM ET (US)     11 / 26       
On hardest level I killed 7 cp's in DM (huge, hill). In Rm I also killed 7 cp's but on a hard level. On the hardest I have defeated 3 once (gigantic, hill). Now I will try to deal with 4.
Yea, while cp doesn't know, where are u he doesn't attack. So than bigger a map, than more time I have.

By the way, that man, who killed 7 cps on hardest on the med map - was it gigantic?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 06-18-07 01:06 PM ET (US)     12 / 26       
It was possibly gigantic, but he did play MP, with pop 200 for himself. Blitz is a boom expert who doesn't care if he loses scores of units, even more than his enemies if it comes to that, as long as he kills his enemies before they kill him.
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 01:25 PM ET (US)     13 / 26       
hmm... Not fair? I wonder if he could beat 7 cps on hardest with pop 50...

Anyhow, I can now fluently beat the CP on hardest, 1v1 on a medium map. It's tricky, but I usually nail it. I'll go for a small now... If it's possible. And then tiny... Though THAT will be very difficult.

[This message has been edited by Dean McCullough (edited 06-18-2007 @ 01:27 PM).]

Max_CRAZY
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 02:23 PM ET (US)     14 / 26       
i only played blitz once 1x1, dont remember who was i only played blitz once 1x1, dont remember who was watching Giggy or some guy called Fox, was gg... i won, medi map, he was minoan, i was yamato, he tool rushed sea, he had more war boats so i didnt fight him directly, while he was attacking my docks/fb (fish boats) i killed his fbs too, so we would be equal on eco, then i bronzed, built close to his town and made cavalary + towers on his wood.

back on topic, blessed salmon and Blitz probably did it with pop 200...

most times with pop 200 i beat 7 vs 1 Hardest Inland, large map 7-8outof 10 games...i dont need to rebuild or things like that. the civs i pick to comps are: 2 Yamato (they always make many cavs), 2 sumerian (the comp moves the catapult really great vs other catapults), 1 hittite (his catapults take ages to kill),1 greek (fast hops)and 1 egyptian (best chariots + super priests).

some times the comp tool rush before 9 mins mark with scouts or axes... its the hardest strat to stop, most times i die when comp do that on 7x1 or even with less comps.

ill try pop 50... since comp cant make no more than 50 units and see what i can do... no doubt ill need some priests.
Blessed_Salmon
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 06:13 PM ET (US)     15 / 26       
yeap! I did those 7 nasty cps with pop200 why not? lol the army against me was still larger 350 men vs 200 (+20 or 30).
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 06:28 PM ET (US)     16 / 26       
I'll try it... After I get used to the hardest difficulty.

Btw, didn't Gigs beat you Max? hmm...

Anyway, Stalwart and I played a game today... He pretty much blew me out. After trying to tool rush him without pinpointing where he is, he comes by with CAs and blots out my main base. I run, but then of course, he finds me again with out much difficulty.

I have ALOT to learn about MP...
Max_CRAZY
Clubman
posted 06-18-07 07:53 PM ET (US)     17 / 26       
dean, i played giggy once, DM, i didnt see Victory conditions, i thought it was Conquest, but it wasnt, the he did like 60 balist towers (he was choson) at corner of the map, walls then built a wonder LOL
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 00:04 AM ET (US)     18 / 26       
Is Cloud really that good by the way?
He'll beat Duan Xuan if he's been practicing. And one day he'll beat Blitz, but that's still a long way to go. Oh, and beats me unless I get a good highland start.
Anyhow, I can now fluently beat the CP on hardest, 1v1 on a medium map. It's tricky, but I usually nail it. I'll go for a small now... If it's possible. And then tiny... Though THAT will be very difficult.
Don't. No one plays that small. Just get better on large. Oh, and wow :O I rarely do that...
Anyway, Stalwart and I played a game today... He pretty much blew me out. After trying to tool rush him without pinpointing where he is, he comes by with CAs and blots out my main base. I run, but then of course, he finds me again with out much difficulty.
Is he good? Or was it just the fact that it was soooo different to 1P?
i played giggy once, DM, i didnt see Victory conditions, i thought it was Conquest, but it wasnt, the he did like 60 balist towers (he was choson) at corner of the map, walls then built a wonder LOL
That was my first ladder game, and win But then, Max OWNED me and a friend in 2v1 rm conquest. He basically walled us in, built up 100+ outside (in 50 pop ), then broke some walls down and entered. Ouch.
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-19-07 08:08 PM ET (US)     19 / 26       
Is he good? Or was it just the fact that it was soooo different to 1P?
Pretty different than 1P... Nasty lag really... And he says he's good, so I guess so. He bronzed at about 15 mins, so I know he's fast.

Oh and btw, I should probably try conquest, I usually wait till the CP builds a wonder (generally while im in bronze) and I'll kill his villies.
G1ggy
Clubman
posted 06-20-07 01:11 AM ET (US)     20 / 26       
That would explain a lot Play Conquest, yes.
Nikokol
Clubman
posted 06-21-07 10:14 AM ET (US)     21 / 26       
I beat 1v2 - I was Shang and the PCs were Assy and Yammmy. The game lasted 2 hours and was pretty though.

Tribulation Designs
I wish my English was better ...
Kingor
Clubman
posted 06-21-07 04:57 PM ET (US)     22 / 26       
I like playing scenarios with a lot of ressources in 1v1 200 pop each player.In only land maps medium size , comp make a lot of catapults and elefants archers , very hard to beat.Hours of pleasure !!
In your opinions does the comp cheat in hardest level using catapults , because he seems to calculate very well his targets.I think is very difficult for a human player doing the same.
Alakazam
Clubman
posted 06-21-07 05:00 PM ET (US)     23 / 26       
Depends how you play. I fire with catapults using Hotkey "T" [Attack Ground] and catch the enemy out. If I allow my catapults to fire, the enemy soldier "senses" that it is being fired at, doesn't it, and comes forward.

A L A K A Z A M
Dean McCullough
Clubman
posted 06-21-07 07:46 PM ET (US)     24 / 26       
OK... Well anyhoo, I've beat my last two games on hardest, both as Egypt. I played choson first, and thanks to 200+ hp legions, it took about 3.5 hours... They kept finding my base, and even when I rushed in with scythes, the legions took awhile to put down... I finally managed to smash through when nearing 3 hours, but it still took time to finish them off, as they were able to keep pumping the infantry... Ridiculous really.

When playing against Hittite, it took me only an hour to kill them... They found my base once, and after that I just ironed and got scythes, while training camels. After a couple attacks, they were pretty much down... The camels actually kill the Horse archers quite fast!

Strange... Maybe Egypt is Hittite's counter hmm?
youarevictorious
Clubman
posted 06-25-07 04:42 AM ET (US)     25 / 26       
Hardest is sinch at DM, but not on RM. They are so hard! I can beat one, but two is too hard. I think it would be a good idea to always keep 200 wood on hand to build a new towncenter, as they dont really try to track you down. This worked for me in a 1v2, but if a single military unit finds you, it will begin to attack. Kill the unit, they will send their hordes against you.
Kerry Jones
Clubman
posted 06-27-07 02:25 AM ET (US)     26 / 26       
I would increase the pop to 200 and see if you can win.

Kerry Jones
Founder
HQ Media Force
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