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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Anyone use Egypt composite bowmen?
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Topic Subject:Anyone use Egypt composite bowmen?
Fighterman
Inactive
posted 02-02-99 01:49 AM ET (US)         
Just wondering who uses these dudes with Egypt cause i reckon the are rather useless compared with their cool 100+ HP CA.


AuthorReplies:
Stooge_Farsan
Inactive
posted 02-02-99 05:57 AM ET (US)     1 / 5       
Composite bowmen is a very popular bronze units right now as I observed from my most zone games, even persia players get compies despite its shorter 7+1 range.

One reason, as I can see, is that a small army rush does not work very well in RoR. One need a realatively larger group to attack or defend. Compies is the most cost-effective units in bronze. One need wood to fish ships and war ships and buildings, while food from the sea is usually abundant. Compies is naturlly the best choice if the civ get it.

I would go for compies and chariots in bronze when play Egytian. Save the wood for Scythe upgrading once in iron. Scythe usually dominants the open battle field if you can field them early in numbers - say 20+ SCs before that 30 min marker, especially if you have already hurt your enemy in bronze with your compies.

Another reason is probably the camels and slingers - both kill CAs. Compies has no true opponent in bronze except probably the Mace hops, and of course large groups of STs (if you can afford it).

Remember Ender had a thread talking about compies - many thought compies was not that useful except minoan ( I was one of those). But now I use compies when nerve I can have it - as shang, phoen, Egytian, yam, etc.


Stooge_Farsan

[This message has been edited by Stooge_Farsan (edited 02-02-99).]

Your_Old_Friend
Inactive
posted 02-02-99 06:17 AM ET (US)     2 / 5       
I very seldom use Egypt, unless I get it from a Random Civ game. They are a slow Civ and get no Siege, so I tend to dump them. Besides, in most games people go around in 1.5 / 2.0 speed and Priests are quite useless at 2.0
Another thing that puts me off them is the lack of the Armored Elephant.

If I'm Egyptian, then:

I do use their Compies in these new Gigantic / Huge games...

Consider this: CA are an attack unit. In defense, they only shine if mobility is required. In your Town, mobility will never be great, though...

Besides, they cost wood. Lots of it. An Egyptian needs to harvest ALL the resources and, in Bronze, amass a great lot of Food, gold and wood. Wood yes, but not for CA: you need those 1,200 Wood asap, so that you can get the Scythe upgrade right after being in Iron. You also need the wood for farms, because you need a lot of Storage pit and Government Center upgrades, to get your Scythes up to proper power - all all these cost huge amounts of Food - and the Elephants are also food-heavy.

So, in Bronze, UNLESS you are attacking their peons and having success at it, you are better defending the turf from THEIR CA and getting ready to kick their butt with a fast Iron + Scythes galore.

So you have no problems with Gold, food is coming in... That's the ideal mix of resources to invest in a slow but powerful defense force.
NEAR YOUR WOODIES (and Goldies, if possible...) make a bunch of archery ranges and a few (3) Siege workshops, immediatelly put out some , invest on the Compy upgrades (but make only one batch of some 10 (preferably Improved Bowman upgrade, then 10 Improved Bowmen, them Compy upgrade) and standby for any Camel / CA invasion. You DO need the ST, they are great at CA killing...
A pair of Chariots also comes in handy, for the opponent's ST, should they show up.

Really, Composites are a great standing army in Bronze, regardless.

When I get Yamato, I always rush with them right after the Cavs - devastating.

Also in attack, if you forward build near opponent, it pays to start with CA, then switch to Compies... much more punch, wipes out any defensive piecemeal attempt that he may make

Just use them anytime the Wood for CA would cost you too much.

ONLY Condition: make sure you have a group of at least 10 (if facing weak opposition) to 15 or 20 (if in an hostile environment) and that you have got ALL the market upgrades that are available to you, PLUS the armour upgrades (you would get this stuff for CA, anyway...)
The ideal company for them is a couple of Chariots and some 3 ST for those Minoan Comps



neilkaz
Clubman
posted 02-02-99 12:07 PM ET (US)     3 / 5       
I for one would shy away from making comps as Egypt. One must remember that the comp upgrades are dead end tech and cost 320 food and 180 wood. This cost must be averaged across all comps you build.(However, with Chariots you need the wheel anyhow for your economy) Thus, if you make 10 compies, the real cost per unit is 72 food, 20, gold and 18 wood. This is 110 resources just like the 40 food 70 wood you spend on CA's ! Compies do dish out 1 more AP, but CA's are faster and Egypt's have many more HP. I agree that you spend a lot of wood on CA, but w/wheel and artisanship wood is gathered much quicker than food.
If you make 20 compies the cost is 56 food, 20 gold, and 9 wood per unit and on a cost basis they look good, but if you spend all that food plus upgrades,etc, you have to clearly delay your iron time and 20 compies take a while to produce and get into batt tle, even if you have 5 ranges.
With, Egypt, I clearly prefer to use the food saved by not going compies on more peons to boost my economy. I don't mind chopping lots of wood. A large wood intake gives me options of sea and land based plans.
It is true that Egypt can use compies effectively in Bronze, but I do think they can do better with CA's . - neilkaz -


Angel Omnivac
Clubman
posted 02-02-99 05:31 PM ET (US)     4 / 5       
I've played so many games with the Egyptians that at one point I had to try going compies instead of CAs, or mixing them both.

If everything is going well, this is a no-brainer. You go CAs and that's it. Egyptian Compies will never be as good as Egyptian Chariots.

You've stuck yourself in a major naval war. If you want to strike on land, or you're attacked on land, compies is the solution. 70wood for CAs will cripple your naval war and you don't want to lose that really, even more if you're attacked on land also. It is easier said than done though. If you need them for defense, basically it will be too late to make a stand where you are as you'll probably will not have researched the improv and compie techs. As an attack, where you foreplanned your strat, you can build forward archeries and get Compies out to do a simultaneous attack on land while fighting on the sea. Egyptian gold miners (with gold mining) don't need to be numerous to pump out compies. All your wood goes for the ships.

Starting mining gold early, and adding more while you bronze... you will get a lot of gold fast. Gold is better used to get some priests and their techs, and/or build some camels in early bronze. Egypt was lacking this in AoE, and were vulnerable to cavs while researching the wheel. In RoR, camels are a great insurance againt cav rushers while you wait for your chariots.

If you're very gold hungry, you can go toes to toes (almost, just missing a small margin) with Chariots once you have nobility againt enemy cavs. Even against cheap yamato cavs, it is good economically. You don't burn any gold, and you have a good option for ironing (and those wolololoing old farts).

Camels are still good nonetheless, against other Chariot Archers. Instead of building only chariot archers, go with the same force but with about 2/3 chariot archers and 1/3 camels. They will fare far more better than an all chariot archers force against an all chariot archers force.

Normally (again when everything goes well) you should get the 3 techs (Astrology is a must if you can research only one) at the temple and start pumping out priests without going below the gold necessary to iron. The only issue here is when you will have the food, and more importantly, when you will Iron. A common mistake is to Iron as soon as you have the ressources (this apply to any players/civs).

So basically, Egyptian Composite Bowmen is not a good choice to build. The only exception is to strike on land, while engaged in a major naval war.

Enemies will not expect a deadly attack on land as you put so much wood in boats.

Enemies will feel secure, because they will not fear a large Chariot Archers force anytime soon, and about everyone don't expect Eyptian Composite Bowmen.

You'll end up with a devastating surprise attack.

In RoR, it's not that easy though because you can always do the same with Camel Riders, and this is a possibility the enemies will think of even if you use a lot of wood for the naval war.

Against better players, your window of opportunity will get smaller, and against better players with fast civs, well there is no windows.

Egyptians (like any other non-fast civs) stand a chance against fast civs only in 50 pop games (the pop at which the game was designed). Playing with 75 pop, the economy start to go out of whack, and at 100 it's going overboard. The only thing you achieve with high pop, is playing in the hands of the economic bonus civs. You can never hope to catch up as they have always more room to get more villagers and continue to increase their economic advantages more and more, and by the time you can catch up, they're all over you and you need to fight with less villagers and/or ressources.

Besides the Egyptian Compies, the most useless unit is without a doubt the Egyptian Swortswordsman. Well, at least it can compete for the title.

Angel Omnivac

FanatiC KaBaN
Clubman
posted 02-02-99 10:38 PM ET (US)     5 / 5       
Egypt composite bowmen are rare, however i have saw armies of Stone Throwers and Comps crushing there way through... Now, i don't really understand why they chose Egypt then Mace, Minoa, Phoe would be a better choice...

I have actuallyy seen this a couple of times, even saw some Egyptian Hoplites...


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