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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » How on earth to start off RM nomad?
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Topic Subject:How on earth to start off RM nomad?
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-20-05 12:51 PM ET (US)         
I had a few games with Centy on the Zone just now. We played co-op in a 2v2 nomad medit for our last game. Well, to sum it up, we didn't do exactly well and got a walloping.

Besides the problem of coordination between both of us (our units often faced the tough decision of moving right or left ), I must say we didn't really know how to approach the game. I think Centy wasn't sure how to go about with the game. I had very little idea about how to play that game as well. In fact, I've never won a single nomad game on the Zone.

I can't for my life figure out how to get the first few minutes of the game right. Anyone care to share some tips on villager-management for the crucial first five minutes? I usually have very good starts for normal RM games, but I'm at a total loss in nomad ones. *despairs*

AuthorReplies:
LittleFreak
Clubman
posted 11-20-05 12:52 PM ET (US)     1 / 19       
I haven't tried nomad games yet.

Sorry.


While sausages are tasty, you might cut your finger with that pencil over there.
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-20-05 03:07 PM ET (US)     2 / 19       
Reveal or no reveal? I've totally lost count of the number of nomand starts that I played in single player games. I normally get along well exploring until I find berries and enough trees for houses and a pit, even if that meant wandering for a few minutes. You can also build a TC right away and hope for the best. Bronze times don't differ a lot, you can hit Bronze in something like 18 minutes if you're better at hitting keyboard shortcuts than I am (not hard) and micromanaging (harder in the early phases, I can micromanage six villies rather well ).
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 11-20-05 08:20 PM ET (US)     3 / 19       
Town Center placement -- especially on Medit should be on coast with shore fish/forest. Second option is berries.

Your first three villagers chop one strag to get the 30 wood for your first house.

Once you have 30 wood and you have all three villagers build the house... move them to shore fish.

Fourth villager goes shore fish. Fifth villager goes to chopping wood for second house.

Complete your second house -- then put one more on food -- giving you your five villagers on shore fish.

Then play it like any other Medit map.


Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-20-05 11:25 PM ET (US)     4 / 19       
Peter, no rev. I find it even more difficult that way because if I'm unlucky, I won't be able to find a sweet spot to build my TC.

Blitz, ingenious! I've never thought of planting the TC by the sea. Very good idea, I'll try that next time I play Oringina (yes, it was him Centy and I played against). I'll give your suggestions some thought and practice a little. Hopefully I'll recoup my losses then.

Btw, wouldn't it be risky to have the TC right on the coast? If enemy ships start attacking, it'd be quite tricky to deal with. Plus, my TC would probably be the first to be discovered by the enemy.

Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-21-05 01:19 AM ET (US)     5 / 19       
Some problems I encountered while practicing just now... On Huge and Gigantic, it's very difficult to play with the TC by the sea.

Firstly, it could take me quite some time to locate a nice spot, get rid of nearby gators, then get the TC built. Usually it's something like 3min+ when I find the sweet spot (forest with 2 or 3 SF). When I get the TC built it's already about 5min.

Also, as the game develops, I'll be having most of my base very close to the sea. If the enemy strikes, I'm likely to lose the bulk of my econ.

One more question. Do I always have to go for a forest + FS combination when looking for a sweet spot? What about lots of SF + some stragglers? I understand that the first pit might be a problem later on because of wood shortage, but this way I should be able to plant my TC down earlier.

Lastly, if I'm lucky and find a spot with forest and berries, would it be better than a spot by the sea?

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-21-05 02:45 AM ET (US)     6 / 19       
I did build by the sea at first and man it set me off like nothing else - bit if you play against CPs it's as good as cheating. Forest + berries is best if you find it quickly because it reduces walking to a minimum. After all a TC is an SP. I sometimes don't even build an SP until I'm in Tool, and then find I can't research Toolworking. (That's if I Tool with 16 or so villagers - that vastly reduces the amount of wood that you can chop.)
And there's nothing that stops you from moving away from the sea once your econ starts growing.
The worst thing about nomad starts is getting eaten by lions or finding other players eaten. I really hate that.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 11-21-05 11:23 AM ET (US)     7 / 19       
You should be finding a good spot by the sea by 1:30-2:00 at the latest. You will be noticeably quicker and stronger than doing a TC by berries then pit.

Remember you save a lot of time when your TC is by a forest because there is no initial walk to the forest.

You should NEVER lose the sea when your TC is on the coast. Why? "Unlimited" repairers and dock builders is a bonus. But the real reason is you will have a bigger woodpile than a berries start.


Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-21-05 12:03 PM ET (US)     8 / 19       
Don't forget that with some luck there's more shore fish close together than in berries patches. The only disadvantage is that sometimes large tracks of coast don't have shore fish.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 11-21-05 04:02 PM ET (US)     9 / 19       
But a nomad start involves a lot of luck anyway...

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
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Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-21-05 10:44 PM ET (US)     10 / 19       

Quote:

And there's nothing that stops you from moving away from the sea once your econ starts growing.

No, Peter. The problem (at least, for me) is that I can't fork out resources to move away from the sea. I can only do so when I start booming in early Bronze. So if a sea Tool war breaks out, and the enemy is somebody like Blitz, I'm a goner.

Quote:

You should be finding a good spot by the sea by 1:30-2:00 at the latest. You will be noticeably quicker and stronger than doing a TC by berries then pit.

I can't, Blitz. I need a lot of luck to plant my TC that early. If it's a Gigantic map, my timings would be even later. Either I don't get a forest, or the distance between the forest and the SF is something like 6 or 7 tiles. Sometimes the ground is elevated and I can't build anything there.

Dangrimm
Clubman
posted 11-22-05 04:45 AM ET (US)     11 / 19       
Quote (from quite a few posts ago: Oringina

Isn't that the name of a New Caledonian/French soft drink? lol

LittleFreak
Clubman
posted 11-22-05 06:57 AM ET (US)     12 / 19       

Quoted from Duan:

I can't, Blitz. I need a lot of luck to plant my TC that early. If it's a Gigantic map, my timings would be even later. Either I don't get a forest, or the distance between the forest and the SF is something like 6 or 7 tiles. Sometimes the ground is elevated and I can't build anything there.

If you can't find a good sweet spot, you could build like you would in a normal game. Place your TC near the shore fish and have villagers cut stragglers. It will take some time until you get wood, but it should be enough. Besides, shore fish is gathered quickly, you should be ok with four villagers on fish so you can spend the next ones on cutting wood. Or you can try building the town center near the forest, quickly getting wood for a dock and getting food with fishing boats.

(these tips are only theory though, I haven't tested them)


While sausages are tasty, you might cut your finger with that pencil over there.

[This message has been edited by LittleFreak (edited 11-22-2005 @ 06:58 AM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-22-05 08:21 AM ET (US)     13 / 19       
But fishing boats are slow. The biggest advantage of having the TC at the shore is shore fishing. If you have to forego that, you can just as well build near a forest + berries. I made a few trial runs on huge maps and the shore start wasn't essentially faster than a berries + forest start.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-22-05 08:45 AM ET (US)     14 / 19       
Glad to have some one share the same findings as myself. I suppose it would take a lot of luck to get the perfect spot by the sea.

The only best alternative would be, as LF said, build TC by some SF and have the first few woodies chop stragglers. Other than that, I really cannot see how I could win the game against strong players. Then again, what's the difference from building TC by a berry spot and then chop stragglers? I'd probably have to waste some time heading for the sea in the former method.

Quote:

Or you can try building the town center near the forest, quickly getting wood for a dock and getting food with fishing boats.

It's only a good method if I know how to do the dock-first start. Problem is, I don't, and I doubt any AoEHer knows how to. I only know one Zoner who can execute this start perfectly well (and beat me easily with it too), but I haven't even seen him for something like a year. I find it pretty risky... Plus, on nomad, you have to wait for ages before wood starts accumulating. By then, it's possible that other players have already greatly outboomed you.

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-22-05 09:30 AM ET (US)     15 / 19       
You should definitely avoid stragglers unless you're really unlucky. Quite often you can find a berries site along a forest edge, offering a perfect source of food and wood.
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-22-05 12:29 PM ET (US)     16 / 19       
Just finished my possibly worst ever game from the CP perspective. Gigantic Medit. Two CPs never built anything but were defeated on losing their single villager. Three only built a granary and lost their villager after that. The only enemy player to develop at all was Assy, and it built STs and lots of hoplites. I hit Bronze in 17'20" - with a good SF start and 20 real vills + 4, later more FBs.
BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 11-22-05 01:05 PM ET (US)     17 / 19       
I think that going to the sea initially is the "safest" start on Nomad Medit.

I have spent my fair share of time on Nomad exploring all around my initial spot to find berries. Sometimes you get them by a forest, sometimes you don't.

Medit all but guarantees you a sweet spot of abundant shore fish and forests on the coast. I think in the long run you will be better off walking initially to the coast and TC'ing by shore fish and forest.

Use your first dock time as a checkpoint and compare each start. You should be docking around 7:00-7:30 at the latest. Your second dock should be immediately after the first dock. I usually can get a third dock up before hitting Tool upgrade because wood comes in faster than standard games -- if I have my TC next to a forest.

In Tool-- you should have a huge advantage if you have similar times.

1) Land defense is easy on a coast.
2) Navy battles on your coast will provide lots of repairers and ability to quickly build more docks.
3) Two-three villagers on berries once you start Tool upgrade give steady food for no lag upgrading to Bronze.


Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 11-23-05 01:41 AM ET (US)     18 / 19       

Quote:

Two CPs never built anything but were defeated on losing their single villager. Three only built a granary and lost their villager after that. The only enemy player to develop at all was Assy, and it built STs and lots of hoplites.

Haha, I want to see screenshots of that!

Blitz, my main problem is that I can't find a spot for the TC with both SF and a forest. What if I'm already into the 4th minute and still can't find such a spot? Should I place my TC nearer to a forest and a little further from the sea, or the other way round?

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 11-23-05 09:23 AM ET (US)     19 / 19       
Sorry, no screenshots available. I only made shots of a very good starting point with 5 SF spots close together and one of a Persian start with Bronze in 16:25 with only 23 villagers. Nothing much to enjoy, just evidence that good starts are possible.
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