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Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition
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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Team Etiquette
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Topic Subject:Team Etiquette
O_Captian
Inactive
posted 01-29-99 11:12 AM ET (US)         
I was playing a random civ game last night and I got palmy (which I know is a good civ, but has very hungry peons). Well, I was on one end and the main battle was on the other end. One of my team mates said I need food, to which I dumped him what I had (I did scout out the enemy below me and there was no imediate threat and my team-mate had kills in achievements). And I dumped him more food per his request to take enemy #2. We all took out the last.

At the end of the game in the room, the guy I fed food said to me, man you need to work on getting food and gold, your iron was very slow for being untouched.

I fed the F#@%ER 750 food (actually 938 w/ the tax) from beginning bronze which hampered my economy growth. Further, I was palmy which econ builders are not cheap.

Did I do the right thing, we won, however I did not, should have kept the food and killed him.

Moral of the story....Don't critize those who help you, especially at your request.

One more thing, only the host touches game speed.

IMO

My One Cent


AuthorReplies:
Janman516
Clubman
posted 01-29-99 11:33 AM ET (US)     1 / 17       
Palmy doesnt pay the tax! Palmayra was one of the ancient trading giants. This is an historical trait that has carried over to RoR correctly, IMO.

But your right, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maybe though the guy just wasn't tactful about offering advice. He meant well probably, but it just came out left-handed.

Janman


O_Captian
Inactive
posted 01-29-99 12:01 PM ET (US)     2 / 17       
Stand corrected I fed the f#$%ER 938 food.


Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 01-29-99 12:06 PM ET (US)     3 / 17       
Well, OC, sounds like you may have allied with the same guy I did once. Or his twin, maybe. Anyway, I was Palmy and delayed Iron 'til about 35 min feeding my 2 Hittite partners. I had contributed a little more than 16k by that time, and wanted to Iron before the end of the game. Sure enough, the critique went something like, "You gotta work on your resource gathering. I know Palmy's SUC*, but anyone should be able to Iron before 35. Look at me. Hittite is slow, and I had every superunit before you went Iron!" Worst part was that he wasn't kidding, as I initially thought.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but some are just jerks. Don't let it ruin your day.


Keep your stick on the ice.

Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 01-29-99 01:31 PM ET (US)     4 / 17       
Captian, I'd like to tell you what I think of tributing partners. Some might disagree with me but, experience showed me it's not bad.

Rule 1)
If a partner is dying, tribute him only wood. Do not give him food unless he got no peons to start gathering stuff again. Then I might give 100-200 food but no more. Conclusion, give him ressources to rebuild but not to build an army, his army is only going to die.

Rule 2)
If a partner ask for ressources, always give something. The guy might ask some food or wood cuz he did not balanced his economy correctly and need to get some important upgrades. If he would not get these upgrades now, it might be very bad for him. Example, the guy just got into bronze and does not have enough food to get the wheel (geeez!), a 100 food would probably have a huge impact on him. Another example: the guys is playing a wood dependant civ and spend all his wood into CAs. He wants to build a Gov center now to build more TCs and get writting but, he's in very intense war and sink all his wood for CAs. A 200 wood would be very cool for him to get.
Do not give a lot if you do not have excess of that ressource (1500+ for example).
If the guy is asking ressources for something stupid, you do not hurt yourself too much by tributing 100-200.

Sometimes, i just have my ass kicked and have to rebuild somewhere. In some of those case, I decide to become a feeding partner (if I am in bronze at least I might do it). If I restart building armies and head to iron when the game is advanced (gold mines gets rarer), I might just trash the gold needed to iron, be in iron with not enough gold to produce something good. So what you could do is, avoid ironing and give all your gold to your partners. If you become a feeding civ, you can concentrate or ressources stealing. You could ask your partner to protect a gold mine near the opponent for 5 minutes, the time for you to empty it with 25 villies and 2 TCs around it. Then you leave for another mine (stone?). The good thing about feeding is sometimes you can start towering like mad and contribute significantly to the game.

Something I really hate is having partners who does not understand the ressource attrition problem in the later stage of the game and does not help to control(steal) mines. That pisses me off cuz most of the time, the ennemy pass by with some units, realize you're there with 25 villies robbing his stuff and fix the situation (park a little army there so you do not come back).

If you decide to be a feeding partner, do not stay in tool. The economics upgrade are too important, so head to bronze anyway (you'll be able to build many TCs).

Hope it helped

Phil




O_Captian
Inactive
posted 01-29-99 04:04 PM ET (US)     5 / 17       
Thanks Phil, very good guidelines. Usually I don't tribute in the way that I did, I just got into a defensive posture, my partner had built in between 2 enemies and feeding him resources would give much more bang since he was able to attack much sooner.

He was able to keep the iniative, which allowed us to kill one, and hit the other hard causing him to resign. Im always trying new things, and would have rated that as a success, but he was such a pompous jerk.

I just need to start playing later w/ people I know again, versus playing earlier and getting sleep.


Jehu
Inactive
posted 01-29-99 05:14 PM ET (US)     6 / 17       
Very good guide Phil. Two thumbs up!

Jehu


Ramyres
Inactive
posted 02-01-99 05:44 PM ET (US)     7 / 17       
Phil,



I do find the essence of your theory Educating and interesting, although I would like to ear your point of view on the following :




  • The impact this theory can have an the strenght of an intermediate partner (Bronzing time, defense capabilities)

  • Balance of the partner game after such a tribute.

Hope to ear from you soon.



Ramyre


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 02-01-99 07:45 PM ET (US)     8 / 17       
Could you please clarify your question Ramyres?



Ender
Guest
posted 02-02-99 08:55 AM ET (US)     9 / 17       
If you know your partner and trust him, there is no problem feeding him food. If someone feeds me I'll use the resources as well as he would of. There is nothing worse in a game than needing some sort of resource, asking for it and not getting it. Sure you might not get it right away but if you tell your ally you need x of x or you might as well resign, they need to make sure that they can give it to you in a respectable amount of time. Even if it means losing ground somewhere else, I'd rather play a 3v3 from a weak position than a 2v3 from a slightly strong position. If your position is any better than slightly strong you would be able to afford the resources without question.


O_Captian
Inactive
posted 02-02-99 02:28 PM ET (US)     10 / 17       
New gripe......Chat sparingly.....think to yourself, is this relevent? If not, don't write something....it slows you down, and your partners reading what you wrote. Nothing worse then useless chatter.

And if you are going to pause the game, try giving everyone notice (don't if someone is dropping) then let then know when taking it off. Its trival but a nice gesture and respect for those you play with.


sphinx
Clubman
posted 02-02-99 05:11 PM ET (US)     11 / 17       
Phil,
It is not always good to bronze if you became a feeder. There are simple reasons for that:
1. Your pards can do a lot of damage with the 800 food you have just given them (if not Palmy discount 25%).
2. Tool age has all the important economy upgrades but the wheel. Although the wheel does make a difference extra 10 villagers you can make instead of going bronze compensate that quite well.
3. Slingers are just as good against CA as the early bronze units are. Axers and bowmen are good against camels so you can always defend yourself from minor attacks.
4. Your pards are supposed to occupy enemies attention elsewhere-away from you. If this isn't happening-then go bronze and kick ars
5. If you are destroyed and decided to become a feeder-you most likely are bronze already. If you are destroyed while in tool-you are no good as feeder anyway because you suck Seriously, it will take you forever (game time) to bronze and you are far better off helping your allies by tributing because they are under pressure being one man short.
6. If you have developed a big tool economy you can easily bronze at any time if you feel danger-doesn't take long with 50+ villagers.

Sphinx


Phil_The_Great
Clubman
posted 02-02-99 05:42 PM ET (US)     12 / 17       
Sphinx
you are pretty much correct. I would say though tool does not have enough economic upgrades. The bronze wood upgrade make such a difference, the wheel and the stone upgrade also.

The decision of becoming a feeding civ involve so many factors, it would be very difficult to produce a Guide of the "When to feed and when not to" which would apply 100% of the time. One basic guideline I observed is: I became a feeding civ when I wanted to help my partners immediately (had my ass kicked previously and relocated) and had to rebuild too many buildings to produce an army quickly. The quickest way to help them sometimes is to give them the ressources and let them produce the units.

When you're a tool feeder, "to bronze or not to bronze" will depend on many other factors. We should start another thread about this.

Phil




Ender
Guest
posted 02-03-99 08:26 AM ET (US)     13 / 17       
O_Captain, I tend to disagree, if its related to the game I'd rather you told me. It takes no time at all to read a message, and very little time to write one. I say the more information you share the better off your team will be. I tell my partners things like where I'm puting docks, if I see food closer to them than to me, the location of large forests/gold piles, any time I see enemy villagers/biuldings. I talk all the time and I think my team game is much better for it.


Thorfinn
Clubman
posted 02-03-99 09:54 AM ET (US)     14 / 17       
Re: whether to become a feeder, why not ask your allies? Eliminates all the case by case variables and opens up the lines of communication. Just my opinion.


Keep your stick on the ice.

O_Captian
Inactive
posted 02-03-99 11:15 AM ET (US)     15 / 17       
Ender, Im not sure that we are in disagreement, I wrote think to yourself is this relevent? The examples you gave are very important and relevent. I'm not saying not to communicate, or to not inform, even jokes are fine. However, to see a message every 5 secs, annoys me if its useless information. Or even worse, is information that is incomplete. "Im getting attacked, Im dying,....help". Maybe if you tell us what you are getting hit by then we know what to counter it with.

Ender I'm sure that you play w/ friends alot and you know how each other work and have built a solid line of communication. However, one question, have you ever played with someone who chatted way to much? If you say no, I would be very surprised.

Actually, maybe I should start a new thread....Funniest non essential messages given. "Hey it started to snow here". Argh! Like that impacts the game, unless you always drop during storms.

Ender, I do not disagree with your comment, it was very focused and illustrated important items to communicate, let everyone do just that. Keep it focused, complete, and fun.


Ender
Guest
posted 02-03-99 12:31 PM ET (US)     16 / 17       
I'm sure I've played with someone others think talk to much... someone named sushi comes to mind. But its never bothered me, I tend to have more time than I need so I like to keep busy by chatting, i always play 1.0 spd since any other speed makes half the units unusable IMO. Priests rule!


O_Captian
Inactive
posted 02-03-99 12:45 PM ET (US)     17 / 17       
Well my hat is off to you....then again, I'm not as multi tasked. Dang, I can't chew gum and walk at the same time either.


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