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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Is it possible to Iron-jump in under 25mins under enemy attack?
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Topic Subject:Is it possible to Iron-jump in under 25mins under enemy attack?
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-06-04 10:19 PM ET (US)         
I'm pretty annoyed over this. I had this 3v3 on medit yesterday on the Zone. I was the left-wing player and naturally I played rather aggressively.

So, here's how the game went until early Bronze. My forwards were trying to dock-block the only shallows leading to the opponent when I spotted a single enemy forward. I clubbed him, went back to complete the docks and sent other villies to finish him off. Sounds like a good start since I had blocked off the opponent and got my two forwards across safely. I continued to build more docks and boomed till I reached a pop of 41 or 42. I went to Tool, and Bronzed pretty soon too, reaching it at about the 15min mark. I had a lot of ships and was controlling the whole sea. Definitely a good way to start off the game, I thought. I was 90% confident that I would have won the game.

I then proceeded to build ranges, stables, siege workshops and TCs on the opponent's land. Until this point of the game, the opponent had only about half of my total pop. I was constantly harrassing him with my Minoan compies and STs, as well as a couple of cav. What I don't understand is that he actually Bronzed earlier than me... Ok, I didn't think much about that, since land-based Bronzes can be pretty quick if you follow the hills playing style. I actually killed quite a few of his villies and made them flee. We all know that fleeing villies are equivalent to dead villies- they don't do any work. Aha, I must have hurt his econ very much there.

Then as I was booming along, he suddenly made a few CAs and Cats to attack me. That was about the 25th min or so. What the heck?? How is that possible?? I haven't done any Iron-jumps before, so I don't know if this is possible or not. I know that it's possible, but the main problem here is that I was attacking him like mad throughout the whole game! I can't say I killed a lot of villies, but I did manage to harrass him a lot. He had no fishing at all (I controlled the seas) and he was farming all the time.

What do you guys think? Is this really possible? I told my allies that he was cheating but they didn't seem to believe me. Then, all this opponent player had to do was to mass his Hittite Cats (how he managed to get so many I find suspicious too). I've never accused anybody of cheating before, and this case really looked like light cheating to me. After he mowed down my whole forward base and main base, I resigned. I watched him throughout the game and didn't notice anything very strange. I think he stopped cheating after that.

AuthorReplies:
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-06-04 11:57 PM ET (US)     1 / 13       

Bronzing before a booming opponent is highly unlikely with a slow civ such as hittite. 25 mins iron might be possible with a mostly intact land econ, but you killed many of his villies and I assume destroyed his farms as well.

It might be a slingshot.

What was the tribute score for his allies?


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Dangrimm
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 02:51 AM ET (US)     2 / 13       
I think wedsaxz hit the nail on the head. Although me and you may have been useless at slingshotting each other (me in particular), some of the players on the zone can do it very well, and if they were, i'm not surprised he ironed and flattened you to pieces, especially if he had more than 1 player slingshotting him along.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 05:45 AM ET (US)     3 / 13       
No, I made sure that it wasn't a slingshot either. I checked and throughout the whole game, the opponent team didn't do any tributing at all. The first thing that struck me when he reached Iron was tribute from an ally, but no, that wasn't the case.

So, in other words... it's very likely that this guy cheated?

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 04:05 PM ET (US)     4 / 13       
Yes, very likely he cheated.

Iron jumping isn't practical without booming or tribute.


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BlitzkreigComin
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 06:36 PM ET (US)     5 / 13       
Post his name and that will help. A very good player would have problems doing that, but it isn't "exactly" impossible. My guess would be that he cheated.

Can you survive the Blitzkrieg?

[This message has been edited by BlitzkreigComin (edited 09-07-2004 @ 06:39 PM).]

Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 10:04 PM ET (US)     6 / 13       
His name is Spartaca. I even have a screenshot of the timeline of that game, but I haven't uploaded it up to my site yet. It's running out of webspace.

The odd thing about this is that he doesn't cheat outright. He just does a little bit here and there to, say, get faster Tool and Bronze timings. Funny fellow.

Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-07-04 10:42 PM ET (US)     7 / 13       
Ok, I just uploaded the timeline onto my website. here it is.

As you can see from the population alone, my econ and military were both way superior to green's. I lost the moment he Ironed. Looks a bit incredible huh? What's worse, he was Hittite, my most feared civ.

By the way, my team consisted of me (yellow), Worry (gray) and Cata (red). Worry was the guy who beat me in the 1v1 I mentioned sometime ago. Strangely, he does dock-first starts, yet he can get big pretty fast. Unusual way to start the game. You can see his standard of gameplay just from the timeline. Sigh, if only I weren't beaten so early, I'd make the timeline more even.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-08-04 04:23 PM ET (US)     8 / 13       

Quote:

Strangely, he does dock-first starts, yet he can get big pretty fast. Unusual way to start the game.

That sounds strangely familiar... especially as minoan...


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Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-09-04 09:43 AM ET (US)     9 / 13       
I've tried docking first a few times as Minoan too... I didn't find it very fast though. There's always this period of time after the dock has been completed where no FBs are being made at all. Also, if I happen to get far forests and bad stragglers, it's almost time to say good game.

Anyway, I suppose the cheating issue is over. No point talking about it anymore, I guess. I'll just have to avoid playing with that person again...

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 09-11-04 12:18 PM ET (US)     10 / 13       
Oh my...maybe someone ACUTALLY pulled off a Minoan Fastboom.

CenturionZ_1
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wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-12-04 03:17 AM ET (US)     11 / 13       
Notice on the timeline how his population was much lower than the others for a period during mid-stone? That's when his initial food ran out and his boats weren't yet bringing in enough for more villies.

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Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 09-12-04 03:55 AM ET (US)     12 / 13       
And he managed to get to Tool and Bronze about the same time as I did too, with about the same population. I'd bet that he didn't have as many real villies as I had though. Assuming he stopped villager production after some time to get the 500 food to Tool, his huge increase in pop must have been due to him pumping out FBs.

Maybe my guess is correct. When I started attacking on the sea in Bronze (took out both green and teal) I didn't see gray's ships at all in the main sea. Apparently he was fighting brown at the rivers, but it doesn't sound like he could amass much of a navy in such a small space... And that suggests some form of wood shortage.

Well, I do think that his dock-start sort of affected him in late Tool to early Bronze, since he would be having fewer real villies than me to chop wood for a good sea fight. I need to play him more to see if I can beat him on the sea easily though. So far in my 1v1 with him I won the sea in early Bronze. Got overwhelmed after that due to negligence of military affairs.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 09-12-04 02:07 PM ET (US)     13 / 13       
CenturionZ_1:
His age times are late. It's a boom but not a fastboom.

If it was, he'd have bronzed about when Duan Xuan tooled.

Duan Xuan:
From his timings it looks like he didn't stop making villies to get to tool, but sea battles did delay him.

With a dock-start he has less wood but more food, so his strength is on land. Once he bronzes however, with all that food he can easily pump villies from multiple TCs.

Attack his woodpile. Tool rush him at the same time as you fight him on the sea. Force him to relocate, raze his houses. He can't recover from that as easily as a granary-start can.


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