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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Countering Hittites
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Topic Subject:Countering Hittites
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-30-04 09:40 AM ET (US)         
Hi everyone. I really want to know, what are the ways to win Hittite players?

I just lost a medit 1v1. I was Minoan versus his Hittite. I know, I know... I should've beaten him in Bronze and not let him Iron, but somehow he managed to hold me out for quite a long time. I even Ironed before him, but I couldn't beat him... and then he Ironed too. Cats plus scythes just overran my forward bases. I didn't have to wait for him to reach my main base. I knew it was over.

Let's talk about Iron age first, which is my main concern. I have NEVER won anybody who played as Hittite and managed to Iron. In the above mentioned game, I had the upperhand both on land and on sea, though there was no clear win. I couldn't crack past his defences and kill him in Bronze, so the game dragged on into the Iron age. I really hate the way the Hittites were designed. They're too good in Iron. HCats with double hitpoints are enough, and they even get scythes!?

The main reason for my defeat was the Hittite scythes. HCats and Cats are of no problem, since I can just outmass him in a siege vs siege war with my superior economy to back me up. But in comes his scythes and my Minoan compies, so invincible in Bronze, become dead meat. Any ways to get rid of scythes that are not amassed together yet? What about countering siege? Cav?

Let's discuss about the Iron age first before we go on to the earlier ages...

AuthorReplies:
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 07-30-04 09:52 AM ET (US)     1 / 16       
Actually, the Hittites are easily the strongest civ in Iron. (You forgot to mention their HHAs btw.) So if you allow them to make it there, you've already lost.
Therefore, better first discuss the earlier ages. You're doing something wrong there, that's clear.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-30-04 09:54 AM ET (US)     2 / 16       
Hmm... absolutely no chance against them at all in Iron?... That's very disappointing to hear. I was hoping to defeat at least one Hittite player in Iron age. Not being able to do so so far is bugging me. Oh yes, HHAs. If he had used them too I would have been a goner even faster.
AyOhE
Clubman
posted 07-30-04 11:49 AM ET (US)     3 / 16       
Here is a perfect soloution. Be the Hittites your self.

Actually I have never had this problem since my favorite civ. is the Hittites, and that is who I always am.

Dangrimm
Clubman
posted 07-30-04 06:27 PM ET (US)     4 / 16       
The hittite military is incredibly powerful in the late game, but in the early game, stone/tool, the hittites are only average, their bowmen may have +1 damage, but their lack of an economic bonus slows that down. I reckon the only way to defeat a hittite player is to strike early and hard, preferably before he can get a second TC up, that way you can outboom him and ultimately outnumber his superior troops, although on the larger maps it is very difficult, because the hittite opponent has more time to wall off.
Upnotep
Clubman
posted 07-30-04 07:16 PM ET (US)     5 / 16       
Actually, I have beaten the Hittites easily in the Iron Age when I was Roman!
The Romans are very good except for their weak Towers called Sentry Towers.

Try countering the Hittites with Babylonians or Persians - they are basically the same Civ. (or Romans )


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Coran
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 00:12 AM ET (US)     6 / 16       
I know what you mean. Only real multiplayer I ever played was against my Hititte friend. It was post-iron on one of those multiplayer maps that come with the game. Even when I took over the middle section and the areas for four players, still couldn't break his defenses. Took what, five assualts? And these were big attacks, 100+ units, mostly centurians and elephants (I was Carthagian). Wall+towers+catapults=impossibly tough defense.

Enter: 10
"I'll beat you back to Age of Empires!"
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 09:39 AM ET (US)     7 / 16       
True, playing as Hittite myself would give me better chances, but it just feels like cheating, especially on medit. I almost always make it to Iron age and I would feel pretty bad if I beat my opponent badly with Hittite. Ok, just kidding... but I prefer Minoans (somehow).

Upnotep, I assume you used scythes when you played as Rome? Also, I doubt Bab or Pers would be a very good choice for me to use in RM. I probably wouldn't even make it to the Iron age to have fun with their eles. Persian is especially rubbishy in its early ages, IMHO.

Alright, so... are scythes the only units that I can use then?

And what about in the early ages? In Bronze age the most likely unit to be used by Hittite players are their CAs (personally I use them often too). It seems that I either have to outnumber him (unlikely if the opponent is a very good player) or I have to use Assy? So, basically, I'm wondering what units to use in Bronze too. Fighting massed Hittite CAs ain't easy. If you use Assy, you have to get rid of him for good or else you'll be dead meat when he Irons.

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 07-31-04 11:08 AM ET (US)     8 / 16       
Medit maps often have lots of gazelles and eles for hunting. That can give Persians a huge advantage.
Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 12:15 PM ET (US)     9 / 16       
Yeah, they may be fast by hunting, but the player also has to spend more time searching for food. Also, Persia doesn't have a very good Bronze army and tech tree. I'm often at a loss as to what strat to use or what units to make when I get them for random civ games. On medit where people get an almost unlimited supply of food from the sea, Persia might also face food shortages, and IIRC they have a farming handicap?
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 07-31-04 12:27 PM ET (US)     10 / 16       
The farming penalty was removed in RoR. You can use camels against CAs. Not excellent, but it's something. Read the Sherrif's guide for Persia. And I think you shouldn't spend wood on FBs but you can spend some on scout ships to force your opponent to build them as well. But Persia isn't really an RM civ of course.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 02:21 PM ET (US)     11 / 16       
Duan Xuan:
Hittite is Minoan's natural predator. You *can* win vs hittite in iron, but it's very very tough if he goes heavy cats + towers.

Your best bet is to play it like greek, cents + siege. Cents with armor upgrades will stop scythes and eles, helos will kill HAs. I don't remeber if cents can dodge cat stones - if not, your best siege counter is cavs.

Persian on Conti (unfinished, experimental)
1. Keep making villies until you have 16 or so.
2. Build a house, you will use it.
3. Kill 1 ele or 2 gazelles.
4. Build a storage pit there, next to wood if you can.
5. Put 2 villies on meat, and the rest on wood.
6. If your first pit isn't next to wood, make one that is.
7. Have a villie build houses, and two docks. Don't worry about fish, use your boats to find them later.
8. Boom fishing boats.
9. Start tool around 6 mins w/16 villies and some boats.

10. Tool, train 2 villies.
11. Mass-build market and stable.
12. Start bronze around 9 mins.
13. Get woodworking and gold mining.
14. Put 4? villies on gold. (maybe less w/tech)
15. Build 2? more stables.
16. Make a scout.
17. Research cav armor.
18. Build an archery range.

Cav rush!
19. Bronze, train some more villies.
20. Make 3? cavs and send them with your scout.
21. Research impie + compie, and archer armor.
22. Build a govt center.
23. Build a town center next to food and/or wood.
24. Train villies there too, put them on food and/or wood.
25. Repeat from step 20.
26. When your cavs are old/dead, use compies+camels.
27. Start iron around 16 mins.

It's not perfect, but maybe blitz or someone can help adjust it somewhat. Early boom is the key to speed and econ, after that you can treat it like a faster yammy with camels and a strong iron. (what's not to like?)


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Upnotep
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 09:26 PM ET (US)     12 / 16       
Catapults are your best bet, but be careful with them.

One of my HCats fired a Stone on fire, the Stone hits a enemy building, and splash damage pulverize a friendly computer Unit. My friends turn on me for that, and torture me so much I had to make another Base.

See, that's what Catapults can do to Units.

The Hittite HCats are invincible in large groups!


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Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 07-31-04 09:26 PM ET (US)     13 / 16       
Hmm, so... any effective ways to beat Hittites in Bronze? IMO they're actually quite good already by then.
wedsaz
Clubman
posted 08-01-04 12:45 PM ET (US)     14 / 16       
Duan Xuan:
Bronze isn't such a good time to take on hittite, unless you're there and he's not. This isn't so unlikely, since hittite is a "slow civ" with no economic bonus.

Babs - tower rush (hittite lacks slingers)
Egypt - chariot+CA, but the sea is problematic...
Mace - compies+STs, smash his docks
Mino - compies+camels, boat rush before he masses warships
Palmy - ?
Persian - cav rush w/ST support, smash his docks
Roman - tower rush (hittite lacks slingers)
Shang - cav rush w/ST support, smash his docks
Yammy - slinger rush, boat rush

For most civs it's more practical to maim hittite on land first, then smash his docks so he can't fish to recovery.


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Duan Xuan
Clubman
posted 08-02-04 04:47 AM ET (US)     15 / 16       
Mmm, attacking docks from the land... That's would be something new. That's provided I can get my forwards and units across the shallows though (if there any).

I think it's rather unlikely that a Hittite player stays in Tool age while I'm already in Bronze age and ready for a land attack. That player must really suck. The best I can have is a land attack while he's still in early Bronze, but that's being too optimistic. It could be me on the receiving end of the beating. Good players playing as Hittite are simply too hard to beat.

I was having this 2v2 yesterday and we lost it. I played Minoan, my ally Hittite and my opponents Hittite and Macy. I knocked out the Macy guy pretty early (he resigned soon) while my ally was being attacked on sea by the Hittite opponent. I don't know if it's my fault or his for not communicating. He didn't tell me that he was under attack at all. I had a damn good chance of clearing up the sea, it was so close. In the end, we just lost the sea. Naturally, we struggled even though it was essentially a 2v1. In the end, he Ironed and it was "gg" time. Another instance of my failure to beat Hittite, argh...

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 08-02-04 09:43 PM ET (US)     16 / 16       
Duan Xuan:
Fill a transport with cavs or villies, either way has a chance. If the shallows are well defended then he probably didn't bother to wall elsewhere.

Are you still trying to beat hittite with minoan? That's like trying to kill a war elephant with a chariot archer, it's not impossible but there's better ways.

If a hittite is in bronze by the time your land attack is ready, you're too slow. I don't think mino can get there in time if they go food-first.

Shang
1. house, house, granary
2. 6 villies on berries
3. cut stragglers and build houses
4. wood pit
5. another granary
6. start tooling around 7 mins, w/20 villies
7. barracks
8. maybe dock and fishing boats
Tool
9. market, archery
10. start bronzing around 10 mins, w/22 villies
11. train transport
12. cross 2-3 forwards away from the shallows
13. far from the shore, build 3 stables
14. train scout (wait till you have cavs before using him)
Bronze
15. train cavs (first 3 ready around 12:40)
16. siege workshop
17. government center
18. train stone throwers
19. town centers near wood and berries, boom villies
20. when you can iron, get scythes+cats


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