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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Beginning to see Kleitus's point
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Topic Subject:Beginning to see Kleitus's point
dshea
Inactive
posted 11-04-98 01:44 PM ET (US)         
So, I am a reasonably seasoned player, above 1900 in the rated rooms and reasonably flexible. I boom regularly and can handle tool attacks. I played last night against 3 Shang, myself being Phoenie. One of my partner's succumbed to a tool rush. I foiled the tool rush against me and swept that player back to his walls using CAs. I had successfully walled and had 48 vills in a pop 80 game. At this point, the third Shang showed up with 15 fully upgraded Scythe chariots. The game went rapidly downhill. Looking at the Achievements, the "untouched" Shang, Shang player 3 had boomed to 82 vills and ironed 4 minutes after I bronzed. Not quite sure how to handle this.
AuthorReplies:
j_bourne
Inactive
posted 11-04-98 02:42 PM ET (US)     1 / 11       

No two ways about it, Shang are indeed EXTREMELY fast to bronze. 3 Shang?!! Wow! I wouldn't even have started that game Jokes aside, the only solutions I've been able to find are Gigantic Maps (with luck, Shang only finds 1 or maybe 2 of your allies allowing #2-#4 to safely boom), No Shang Games, LOTS of boats and "special civs" like Egypt, Rome or Macedonian which are exceptionally good in bronze. Even with the "special civs" though, it's hard. Rome can get a billion towers up and 2-3 Macedonian Hoppers + 1-2 cheapo STs can do some cool stuff against archers (defend the walled-in woodies/goldies) while egyptian CA/Chariots just plain rock. However, you're at a massive resource disadvantage and I'd bet you wouldn't be able to get enough troops out. That ASSUMES a good starting spot and good skill and it STILL isn't guaranteed.

Finally, while you've been fighting for your life, MR Shang has the initiative and may well have Ironed. The worst is when, just as you catch your breath and congratulate yourself, the damn HA and Scythes show up!


In team games, I usually either go for "No Shang" or go random civ, gigantic map and PRAYYYYY!!

Just me $.02,
J.


Angel Omnivac
Clubman
posted 11-04-98 05:05 PM ET (US)     2 / 11       
There's always the round-robin where players choose after the other and the same civ must not be chosen.

Or

No same civs in a team.


Sting
Clubman
posted 11-04-98 09:36 PM ET (US)     3 / 11       
hey dshea were you playin RoR???

I was not aware you could set the pop limit to 80 in RoR...


TwoFists
Inactive
posted 11-05-98 04:31 AM ET (US)     4 / 11       
Sting, I read that pop changes can be done in the settings page, not sure if that's true, just got ror myself. Twofists


Angel Mack
Clubman
posted 11-05-98 10:23 AM ET (US)     5 / 11       
TwoFists, in ROR, the pop limit is in increments of 25, so an 80 pop limit would've been preset in the registry.


dshea
Inactive
posted 11-05-98 01:52 PM ET (US)     6 / 11       
you are correct, standard ROR doesn't allow pop 80. Must be my faulty memory. The 82 villagers is the value that stuck in my mind the most.


Washizu
HG Alumnus
(id: Angel Washizu)
posted 11-05-98 03:59 PM ET (US)     7 / 11       
I think the key here is the "untouched" shang player. My good buddy Angel Mack used to pound me and other Angels into the ground with various civs until we realized that if we hit him before Iron his fast ironing techniques wouldn't be nearly as effective.

dshea: Think of how you're game was going. Your opponent is losing a tool age war, forcing you to help him out by spending tons of resources on bronze units and upgrades. The untouched shang player has probably spent barely any resources on military upgrades until he gets to iron with his huge villager count. I don't think this would be that hard to do with any civ if you weren't attacked for 18-20 minutes. I would be interested to see his bronze time, which I'm guessing he clicked the Iron Age upgrade as soon as he hit bronze, meaning he was probably in the tool age for a long time.

Just my thoughts...


[This message has been edited by Angel Washizu (edited 11-05-98).]

NoSoup4U
Inactive
posted 11-09-98 10:05 AM ET (US)     8 / 11       
I think the best solution to playing shang players is play on a gigantic map otherwise life will be rough. Of course the bad thing about gig. maps is that walling is brutally difficult if you want to accomplish it in a meaningful way. In Med. you have a shot with the water border (especially because u know its their) but forget about it in continental. Hill country is little better but starting position REALLY varies.

I also am a big fan of the no Shang rule.


Barbarosa
Clubman
posted 11-09-98 10:29 AM ET (US)     9 / 11       
    Hmm, the Mediteranean maps are indeed easier to wall, but there's another problem with it. You'll have a really hard time knowing where the enemy will land. That's because it will be almost impossible to control the huge water line at the beginning, unless you're playing with high resources or a DM. And for the enemy it won't be very hard to build 2 or more transports.


~Barbarosa~


dashingdave
Inactive
posted 11-09-98 10:57 AM ET (US)     10 / 11       
I vote for gigantic maps too, in any civ games. Is it just my imagination or are there a whole lot more lions and gators in RoR. It seems every time i try to scout for the enemy early with a peon, he gets eaten by some of the wildlife. In fact, its gotten so bad that I've started sending them out in 2 man teams. So I usually wait til I hit the tool button before searching. That means that I often don't find him/them by the time I need to build that first arch range.

The only times I've really been slaughtered by Shang is when I'm right next door to them. Especially if I'm villager/boat booming and they are doing a simple land food tool.


postapokalyptic
Clubman
posted 11-09-98 08:06 PM ET (US)     11 / 11       
I definately agree with Dave there. Shang are nasty if you are right next to them because they will Tool quickly and can hurt you easily. But in larger maps I dont find Shang to be a problem. They are just like any other Civ, they have their strengths and their weaknesses depending on the settings. So far from my experiences I find that Rome is the best counter to Shang as well, although this is an early thought at this time.


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