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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » Concerning the Hardest difficulty...
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Topic Subject:Concerning the Hardest difficulty...
Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-07-03 12:05 PM ET (US)         
No... I'm not comming to moan about this difficulty setting...

I don't see any reason that Ensemble Studios would let/force/threaten/order the computer to cheat... The way the Tool in 4:30, Bronze in around 7:30 - 9:00 and Iron (that's 'Iron' in case you can't see - it is in silver colour) in about 11:00/12:00 still mystifies me...

How on earth could they do that?? I'm certainly not the even one of the higher intermediates around... but I can Tool about 7:30, using normal settings - there is no way I can do that even if there are 30 patches of shore fishes around me, and not mentioning getting sufficient wood to build the requisitorial buildings...

So far, I only managed to win 1 game playing as Sumerians, against Babylonians, where they constantly Tool-rush me with scouts and bowmen, without armour (stupid mistake! hahaha... ), and later on with Stone Throwers and Priests... (For those of you who wanted to know how I won, I held off their Priests, drained their gold, swarmed in with 5 Heavy Horse Archers to kill villagers and finished the job with Centurions and Heavy Catapults)

I'm just hoping to start a thread to see what people know/think about this setting... And just curious to know if AoEH might start a section about the Hardest difficulty...

"My Pike is bigger than your Pike"
- The out-dated heavy infantry from the Academy


Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...
AuthorReplies:
peter
HG Alumnus
posted 01-07-03 12:12 PM ET (US)     1 / 23       
Hardest simply means the CP starts with more res than you. They also make for Bronze or Iron asap and seem to attack faster and better than on hard difficulty (although ES claims the CP uses the same ai for both levels.
The subject has surfaced several times in the past but doesn't seem to deserve it's own section. Of course if you think differently, don't hesitate to submit your article.
Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-07-03 12:18 PM ET (US)     2 / 23       
Ah... no wonder - No wonder when I played on Moderate with High Resources, Ii am able to play as fast as that... (in actual fact, a little bit faster).

*stops for a moment and think...*

Hmmm... hold on, don't players in a Random Map game always start with no gold, regardless of which resource setting you use? They can't be mining 800 gold already that quickly?? Surely they still need to collect the other resources...? (I might be wrong... but then, this is what I think)

[My memory do not serve me well - but if it does not fail me this time, I should remember you also start with no gold on the High Resources setting]

"My Pike is bigger than your Pike"


Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...

[This message has been edited by Iron Hoplite (edited 01-07-2003 @ 12:21 PM).]

peter
HG Alumnus
posted 01-07-03 01:19 PM ET (US)     3 / 23       
Maybe they get a lot of gold as well; I don't know. That they get more stuff to start with isn't a secret though; you can find it in the readme file on the CD. Therefore I don't regard it as cheating, it's just a damn nuisance.
Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-07-03 01:29 PM ET (US)     4 / 23       
Ah...

Darn the computer players...


Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 02:41 AM ET (US)     5 / 23       
I believe they start with 2-3 times more resources than you. I did a test on a blank map seeing how many villagers they could build and on a normal RM they built 8 villagers I believe.

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
Age of Empires Heaven Agetoons About Me
Delirious Lab
Clubman
(id: Benoit)
posted 01-08-03 08:31 AM ET (US)     6 / 23       
Tips for beating the computer at Hardest:

- Before you get attacked, scatter your economy around the map. Have woodcutters at two separate pits. Same goes for food. When the CP attacks, it will tend to concentrate on one site, and usually won't move on until it has destroyed all the buildings it sees.

- Don't moan when you get hit. Take your losses and concentrate on reaching Bronze.

- In Bronze, attack with the first 3-4 mounted units that you can make (Chariot archers, Cavalry or Camels - mix in a Scout for the later two). Send these to the enemy village and kill as many villagers as you can.

- Don't waste time destroying buildings or fighting military units. If towers shoot at you, just run past them. Go after villagers only. When the CP's economy is dead, then you can mop up.


Delirious Lab - Winner of Kman's (himself a recipient of _Vontos_' Medal of Logic) Award for Cleverness.
Benoit's posts make me sing the "there's no Canada like French Canada" song. - Spitfire
I think in Quebec they speak Latin, or some language I dont understand. - c_moach
What man needs most of all is a breath of fresh air. - Fyodor Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment
They'll learn to like it someday. - Ludwig van Beethoven
We dick around. - Pat Quinn
SBE
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 12:10 PM ET (US)     7 / 23       
Benoit: Couldn't agree more with getting rid of villies first against computer. If you can stifle their economy the ai will struggle to get going again. Very important, then as your economy grows you can build bigger units and...to quote your good self..."mop up"

These are the tactics i used to win a 1v6 on hardest vs the computer. I won eventually, took a long, long time though, and i've still never won a 1v7 on hardest...that is out of reach i think...i'll keep trying though.


CENTURIONZSBE aka SBESQUIRE, THISISYESTERDAY, EBS and SBE
Gluttony is my second favourite sin!
Proud Webmaster of the USELESS GENERATION
Delirious Lab
Clubman
(id: Benoit)
posted 01-08-03 01:34 PM ET (US)     8 / 23       
Yes, and the CP is pretty crappy at defending its villies too. No walls, towers on the perimeter of the town, many peeps working close to the Town Center, and sometimes they will even gang up and try to bone Bronze units!

That advice is good for 1 vs. many too. Once you have killed the villies, don't waste time destroying a ghost town; instead, move on to the next enemy town and kill the villies there.

Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 03:26 PM ET (US)     9 / 23       

Quoted from SBE:

used to win a 1v6 on hardest vs the computer

Blimey 'eck...

So far, I don't even get to win 1 vs. 4 on Hard... ah well, I'll get there some day...


Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...
generaljohn
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 03:47 PM ET (US)     10 / 23       
I have made senerios and made sure each player had eqaul amount of food and that.Yet no matter how fast Iam.The comp always seems to be one step ahead of your.Depends what settings you use
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 04:28 PM ET (US)     11 / 23       
Hardest even increases resources in secnarios totally ruining certain campaigns where this becomes a bug.

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
Age of Empires Heaven Agetoons About Me
SBE
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 04:50 PM ET (US)     12 / 23       
Iron Hoplite: Yeah 1v6 was very hard to do. I've only managed to win a 1v6 on a gigantic small islands map. I walled off the whole island quickly and got priests going and converted all the transport ships before they got close to the shore line This wasted the computer players population. As they had units stuck in a boat under my control. And as long as you don't destroy these transport ships you have their units kinda imprisoned

I then just used my own ships to clear the perimeters of each island then moved eles over and priests to convert buildings and other units. It was a long game...maybe 3-4 hours if i remember correctly, but very rewarding when i won it!!!

I've tried a 1v7 at least twice and got wiped out early. It was too much to handle. Holding back 7 iron age attacks when i was just moving into the bronze age!


CENTURIONZSBE aka SBESQUIRE, THISISYESTERDAY, EBS and SBE
Gluttony is my second favourite sin!
Proud Webmaster of the USELESS GENERATION
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 01-08-03 06:12 PM ET (US)     13 / 23       
Centy: yes, indeed. This is why I always do custom AIs etc, then on hardest they still make the same things but attack with them harder. As harder should be.

It is pretty lame when you get attacked by Bronze Age units after 7 minutes, which is almost impossible even for a good multi player to do, but on a 50 pop? You're permanently behind. Like benoit said, you have to spread out, hang out and wait for your chance to turn the tables - if you can survive, you can win.

[This message has been edited by Phill Phree (edited 01-08-2003 @ 06:16 PM).]

Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-09-03 02:27 PM ET (US)     14 / 23       

Quoted from SBE:

walled off the whole island quickly

Hmmm... I don't really use walls against computer players, since they can't wall themselves - but nonetheless a great thing to do...

Quoted from SBE:

This wasted the computer players population. As they had units stuck in a boat under my control. And as long as you don't destroy these transport ships you have their units kinda imprisoned

Imagine if they were heavy transports with 10 expensive elephants... That have got to infuriate them so much that their Artificial Intelligence becomes Infuriated-Embarrasing Emotion that they resign. Horray!

Quoted from SBE:

Holding back 7 iron age attacks when i was just moving into the bronze age!


(sorry, I know I'm excessively quoting from SBE today... )

Blimey 'eck! *takes out his Hoplite spear made from iron, raises his Phalanx Shield and charges suicidically at the enemy* :-)

Quoted from Phill Phree:

attacked by Bronze Age units after 7 minutes, which is almost impossible even for a good multi player

For me, that would depend on the unit they are made. Short Swordsman might be counterable, if they have no Leather Armour/Toolworking, countered by Axemen with Leather Armour and Toolworking, or masses of bowmen with Leather Armour and Woodworking... unfortunately, no one playing on Hardest would ever upgrade like this, no? Improved Bowmen are - somewhat - counterable, with the same with being no Leather Armour/Scout with Toolworking.

On the other hand, I find no Tool Age military units to be able to counter Cavalries or Chariot Archers effectively, even with no upgrade.
Erm... sorry, I know you know all this... hope I didn't bore you too much, so

WAKE UP
...

*Coughs from the sudden shout*

"My Pike is bigger than your Pike"


Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...
generaljohn
Clubman
posted 01-09-03 05:13 PM ET (US)     15 / 23       
whats this 1v7 and 1v6??
SBE
Clubman
posted 01-09-03 05:15 PM ET (US)     16 / 23       
Oh one last thing Iron Hoppy...

Quote:

"My Pike is bigger than your Pike"

My Pike is definitely bigger than your pike lol


CENTURIONZSBE aka SBESQUIRE, THISISYESTERDAY, EBS and SBE
Gluttony is my second favourite sin!
Proud Webmaster of the USELESS GENERATION
SBE
Clubman
posted 01-09-03 05:26 PM ET (US)     17 / 23       
General: A 1v6, say, is you against 6 allied computer players. This has nothing to do with zone player or multiplay, just your average random map or death match against the computer. A 1v7 would likewise be yourself against 7 allied computer players.

So basically you're taking on 7 other players who are joined in force against you!!


CENTURIONZSBE aka SBESQUIRE, THISISYESTERDAY, EBS and SBE
Gluttony is my second favourite sin!
Proud Webmaster of the USELESS GENERATION
Phill Phree
Clubman
posted 01-09-03 08:25 PM ET (US)     18 / 23       
"unfortunately, no one playing on Hardest would ever upgrade like this, no?"

Well, I dunno so much, seems to me people would only make a lot of axemen and bowmen if they were thinking of a rush, yeah. Otherwise they would have a few to help fight off an early attack but concentrate on getting some half decent Bronze units.

It's touch and go for me, the most I ever won against the CP on hardest was 1 vs 5 and that took three goes.


My Karma ran over my Dogma

AoEH | EEH | RoNH | IndividualsCAN

generaljohn
Clubman
posted 01-10-03 06:15 AM ET (US)     19 / 23       
well ok for that I noticed dont use AOE speed.the comp will kill u b4 u can do anything.but for somereason when u say have built up yru army and stocked up on wood and that.Then quit and reajust the speed to say 40.the try and relaod the saved game.the entire game shuts down on u..why is that.and what usally the best to go agaist a death match.I like using carth for there strong elephants..and plus they give the towers I need and the land troops as well.But whats the trick with death match I tryed at the hardest level.An i get invaded and the whole works.I know there weaknes is they build houses.mabye it was the fact i made the max pop 60.?.I dont know.death matches are very hard to beat.I have beaten like 1 or 2 players and by that time Im dry as a bone..
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 01-11-03 09:38 AM ET (US)     20 / 23       
Basically without extra resources, the CP would stink. Hard mode is basically Hardesy without extra resources and you can see that the only manages 12-15 mins.

Hardest is there for a challenge for people without MP. But when you enter DM even Hardest ain't a challenge.

I can take down 1v7 Hardest DM simply by building siege workshops and stables all over the place, totally destroying the CP's build capabilities. Although it is hard strecthing your 50 pop army it can be done, you need to use you resources wisely and take down at least 2 players in the first 4 mins with eles.

My tip is only this: ruin the CP's economy early, don't let it get a 12min Iron.


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
Age of Empires Heaven Agetoons About Me
Iron Hoplite
Clubman
posted 01-11-03 02:55 PM ET (US)     21 / 23       
And always remember - in a Death Match, speed is of essence. Even at Easiest, you'd probably get whipped if you are slow.

Heck... who can beat a Mithril Colossus Hoplite like I am one now...?
Besides, Zeus agreed to help me, and Athena to love me...
Dangrimm
Clubman
posted 01-11-03 08:54 PM ET (US)     22 / 23       
I dont play Dm that often, so, to be honest, i would get whipped by a first-time player of aoe in a dm. But random maps are my strong point. Ive taken down a 7comp. vs. me a couple times before, on highland. It seems the trick is to build about lots of bases around the map, each with 1 or 2 villagers working on a resource, that way, your economy cant be crippled. Of course, you have to tool rather fast, and build walls in between vantage points like forests and cliffs, and then when you bronze, you can build multiple towns. I dont usually get any military until the bronze age, because although the comps are sacking half my towns, my others are still working hard away, and I just expand on them. Then when I get enough resources, I iron then build a horse archer and chariot archer army that roams the map, taking out one enemy economy at a time. Finally, I build a large front of towers- About 50 or so, then I draw the enemies armies towards it, and my horse armies coupled with the towers can easily take down the enemys, also having a few villagers to build about 5 rows of fortifications to stop melee units coming in to wipe me out. All thats left after that is to build a couple siege shops, and crank out catapults and flatten the enemy towns. Takes about 6 hours each time, though. I use hittites or assyrians.

Hope i havent bored u 2 deth

generaljohn
Clubman
posted 01-12-03 07:34 PM ET (US)     23 / 23       
Those are easy to do.I myself Iam getting better at Death matches.I managed to take over 3 islands.I still had to use steroids alot though...I didnt have to for the st island.As soon as I could make archers I made a whole bunch and rushed them
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