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Age of Empires Heaven » Forums » Age of Empires / Rise of Rome / Definitive Edition » How to stop Choson rush in DM games?
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Topic Subject:How to stop Choson rush in DM games?
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curious
Clubman
posted 11-30-01 10:25 AM ET (US)         
Hi, I am trying to gather some strategies against Cho rush in DM games. I have tried every combo including cents+heli, HHA+cats, HHA+cents, but they are often too damn slow to build sizable army aginst cho legion+tower combo.
Given 2 players' skills are same, choson player almost always seems to have edge against the other civ. They are just too easy to amass and too damn cheap to build. Only real success i had against a "good" cho was when the land was divided by shallows (cho hates water, hit archers can really rock in this map) or if I play cho myself. Tell me your success stories against cho before I turn into another cho exclusive player.
AuthorReplies:
Kingkerry
Banned
posted 11-30-01 12:40 PM ET (US)     1 / 43       
Best thing I have used against Choson is Heavy Horse Archers, Hittie; if they are masses together like 50 to 100 Chosons wonít even touch one!Also itís go to mix in Balasias; if Choson towers get in your way, use Catpaults and elephants for best results.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 11-30-01 04:17 PM ET (US)     2 / 43       
It's quite difficult for ballistas to take out Cho towers. Cats take too long to build. Why not try Choson against Choson?

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
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'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-01-01 04:02 AM ET (US)     3 / 43       
At last a DM post.

Here is some possible choson anti rushes. Some of them aint proper anti rushes just good ways to beat cho.

1. Like CenturionZ_1 said you should go choson but try to make more towers than your opponent. In most cho v cho whoever can build more towers is gonna win.

2. Carthage is very good against choson for about 10 minutes but once too many towers are built Carthage starts to struggle. 4-5 Elephants attacking cho barracks at the 2:30 mark realy screws up cho.

3. Play Roman how you would play choson. Quite simple just build many barracks and back them up with seige workshops. Only rely on barracks for first 8-9 minutes then switch to mostly seige. Probably most effective out of all the strats.

4. Another very effective stratagy is to use an early horse archer attack with hittite then just overbuild horse archers like Kingberry said. To make it nearly impossible to beat build no more than 20 hvy cats and use the stand ground feature and only use the cats to attack towers and helepolis.

5. This is the final one I can suggest and that is to use Yamato. Yes people think Yamato sucks but if they can get some very early horse archers mixed in with sentry towers not much can stop it. One key with yamato against a cho is to use a few stone throwers up on the front line so they can stop helepolis attacks. You may think the stone throwers will get killed by legions but your heavy horse archers will take care of that. I would only use this in a 2v2 though since you need some cats to take out towers.

curius:
If you wish to see how some of these work look for me on the zone MT_Noble.

wedsaz
Clubman
posted 12-01-01 04:28 PM ET (US)     4 / 43       
Noble:
I'm no DM player, but I have a few ideas...

Assy?
1. great HAs
2. towers
3. helepolii
4. catapults
5. legions
6. CAs (death to priests!)
7. priests (not as good as cho, but you have CAs and he doesn't...)

Mace?
1. HHAs (hard to convert)
2. towers
3. ultra-cheap ballistas (50w 40g)
4. ultra-cheap STs (90w 40g)
5. cents (hard to convert, resistant to HAs)
6. AEs (hard to convert)

Yammy...
1. cents as support for your HHAS?
2. siege villies vs towers can save gold for more HHAs

Just some thoughts.


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peter
HG Alumnus
posted 12-01-01 05:19 PM ET (US)     5 / 43       
wedsaz:
try a few games with or against Mace to see how hard to convert their HAs and Cavs really are (if you use 2 priests per unit you'll be surprised to see how sooon they're converted. Tool age units seem to be harder to convert - don't waste time to try to convert Mace buildings though, it isn't worth while - even a band of villagers can destroy them faster)
AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-02-01 06:38 AM ET (US)     6 / 43       
Whilst playing against choson, I usually have tonns of HHarchers backed up with 30 or 40 siege (cats). Because both the siege and HHAs are long range units, you dont get damage dealt by your cats. What I do is, I line up the HHA to attack the legions, then I back them up with the immense siege. Since cats have wide damage, all legions attacking will take damage, and if you can imagine 30 cats raining down those boulders around 10 to 15 legions die straight away. This means you lose only around 5 units or so if you carry out the attack successfully.
CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-02-01 01:08 PM ET (US)     7 / 43       
Here's a thought with Hittie:

Why not try siegecraft villies to take out any towers and mix some HHAs and your own towers. Then you can send in eles to hold the rest back.


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-03-01 05:29 AM ET (US)     8 / 43       
Just played a 1v1 DM against a choson and I chose Egyptian. I was expecting to be creamed but I was quite suprised to see that I won.

Used a 1:30 chariot archer attack that destroyed good half of the choson barracks then I just towered up and sat plenty of Chariot Archers behing them towers.

Whenever the legions approached they were beat back and when he used helepolis I had a handfull of stone throwers.

At about 1 hour 30 mins he was out of resources and had stopped building legions or helepolis. I slowly took out a whole hill full of towers and he just resigned.

So add egyptian to the list as quite a good anti rush civ.

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-03-01 03:53 PM ET (US)     9 / 43       
Noble: Was the guy you were playing good? Because only a good Cho rush will cause any trouble in DM.

CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-04-01 05:25 AM ET (US)     10 / 43       
CenturionZ_1:

Well I suppose I could call this guy good since he was from a very good clan which I shall not give away.

But you have a very good point about only a very good cho rush will have you in trouble. I myself have a horrible cho rush and I have only seen about 25 people do it correct and that is not many.

Wild1234
Clubman
posted 12-04-01 11:52 AM ET (US)     11 / 43       
Hittite cats can kill anything:P

just sit back and smash his entire army with them...

I miss my old DM matches, I would go solid cats, my PN would go choson, and we would kill everything alive

only problem with cats is it takes a while to get them going, but once they are, watch out...

and yes, I am still alive:P


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CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-04-01 04:09 PM ET (US)     12 / 43       
You obviously haven't been playing DM games with skilled players. If you rely on Hittite cats you will dead before you can get them out. I lernt this the hard way. Elephants kill you siege workshops before you even research catapult.

CenturionZ_1
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'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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Wild1234
Clubman
posted 12-04-01 08:36 PM ET (US)     13 / 43       
back when I was playing these games was when there were thousands of people playing:P

and yes, the early rush can destroy hittite easy enough, but I allways played with a choson ally... he would hold them off for the first 5 minutes, I would kill everything after that point

edit...
and oh yea, my PN was one of the best DM players around, and I was just decent:P
we played against many very good players...


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~Wild1234

[This message has been edited by Wild1234 (edited 12-04-2001 @ 08:37 PM).]

Noble
Clubman
posted 12-05-01 05:23 AM ET (US)     14 / 43       
An early Cat start is quite possible against a choson but I only ever use sumerian and I make sure I can destroy his barracks with a 1 minute horse archer.

If you don't destroy more than 50% of his barracks you are kinda stuffed with a cat start.

Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-05-01 08:33 AM ET (US)     15 / 43       
Now people call this rook, but when someone is on the zone, they say "building walls is very rook" that isn't true, walls have saved me many times, what you could do is, play a man where it has shallows and get some siege, have the siege attack ground into the shallows, build some towers and start building alot of cents, by the time he trys to get through his army will be hurt serverly, if he is a good player he'll probably have a back up army.


*Best thing to do, when they send a huge army into your town, send a huge army into their town, they'll be fruasted and withdraw from your town, this was a tactic used by the Romans, it really does work!

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-05-01 04:02 PM ET (US)     16 / 43       
There only 3 things that are going to save you against a GOOD Cho rush:

1. Another Choson rush and whoever builds more legions wins.
2. A early HHA rush.
3. Or walling and towering with Babs.


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-06-01 05:03 AM ET (US)     17 / 43       
CenturionZ_1:

Let me expand on #1 yes whoever builds more legions is gonna win but I think it more rely's on who can build more legions and have better forward building with towers.

CenturionZ_1
Clubman
posted 12-06-01 03:10 PM ET (US)     18 / 43       
Noble:

What I was trying to say is that the secret to a good Cho rush is the towers and not really the legions. Sorry. You see the fact is Cho towers outrange everything until catapults with engineering which doesn't sort of come into the game until 5+ mins. That's why the forward building of so many guard towers is so powerful.

This is why I don't think early scythe rush has any effect. I think only legions, HHAs, walls have really much chance.


CenturionZ_1
HG Angel
AoEH Staff

'In heaven an angel is nobody in particular.' - George Bernard Shaw
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Noble
Clubman
posted 12-07-01 05:26 AM ET (US)     19 / 43       
Well this post I am kinda sending off current topic but I believe that Yamato is the best civ versus Choson. But under no circumstances is it any good in a 1v1 since Yamato can't take out choson towers so you realy need a Roman, Hittite or Greek partner.

Its amazing how so many people knock this civ like calling people n00bs and rooks when the use Yamato. How fun it is defending against a choson for over 2 hours to suddenly use a seigecraft villager rush and take out all the Choson Towers and they can do nothing.

So what does anybody think of Yamato v Choson??? I'm quite interested in this.

Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-07-01 08:39 AM ET (US)     20 / 43       
In my almost 5 years experience playing Age of Empires, I believe Elephants mixed in with Centrions could knock down towers, but have HHA so the legions won't get them, see people build up their defense at borders, I have found if you send your units pass that, and striaght into their town they get ****** off oh my god p*i*s*s**e*d is blocked out? geez talk about Heaven Games being the big mother.
Noble
Clubman
posted 12-07-01 09:04 AM ET (US)     21 / 43       
One problem with walking past towers is that it gives time for the towers to shoot and a normal cho defence will have roughly 8-9 layers of towers so even if only afew survive the journey plenty of cho players including myself always have some helepolis waiting just outside of the town but inside the towers.

It's better to use Cats to knock towers down rather than cents and elephants. Why?

A. Elephants and cents both get converted and converted easy.

B. Cats with backup Heavy Horse Archers are nearly always gonna destroy more legions.

C. Well like A but it takes just 3-4 helepolis to tear through a elephant cent army.

Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-07-01 12:37 PM ET (US)     22 / 43       
Trust me it works, I have done this many times, it pisses the person off and calls you a f**kin runner and then they resign see if you attack a Choson players town, and destroy the inside they usually give up, this I have done many many times.
AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-07-01 02:23 PM ET (US)     23 / 43       
Well I used to play a lot of DM games before. Most of the people were Choson users. They would send huge numbers of legions, but 20 or more cats usually took away 1 wave with minimum damage. The key is to make lots of seige as fast as possible. He will use towers, so siege also acts as a double.
AOE_Revolutionary
Clubman
posted 12-07-01 02:28 PM ET (US)     24 / 43       
And ever wondered why so called "experts" complain about SIEGE. They usually put a message up like NO SIEGE, SIEGE ARE FOR ROOKS, now that is becuase good SIEGE can wipe out CHOSON army in no time.
Kingkerry
Banned
posted 12-07-01 02:33 PM ET (US)     25 / 43       
ahh but can you tell me this, what do you do if they are a Yamato player? I could go Cavalry and Heavy Horse Archers on you
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